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Lion Air Crash in Bali

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  • lantern
    replied
    Lion not having much luck these days

    [FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][COLOR=#000000]DATE:[/COLOR] [/SIZE][SIZE=2][COLOR=#000000]06.08.2013[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][COLOR=#000000]LOCAL TIME:[/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=2][COLOR=#000000] 21:13[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][COLOR=#000000]LOCATION: [/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=2][COLOR=#000000]Gorontalo City-Jalaluddin AP (WAMG)
    [/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=1][COLOR=#000000] LOCATION ON GOOGLE MAPS [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
    [FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][COLOR=#000000]COUNTRY:[/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=2] [SIZE=2][COLOR=#000000] Indonesia[/COLOR][/SIZE][/SIZE][/FONT]
    [FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][COLOR=#000000]AIRLINE:[/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=2] [COLOR=#000000] Lion Air[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][COLOR=#000000]TYPE:[/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=2] [SIZE=2][COLOR=#000000] Boeing 737-800[/COLOR][/SIZE][/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][COLOR=#000000]REGISTRATION:[/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=2] [COLOR=#000000] PK-LKH[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Arial][SIZE=1][COLOR=#FFFFFF] [/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=1][COLOR=#FFFFFF]PHOTO [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][COLOR=#000000]C/N:[/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=2][COLOR=#000000] 37297[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][COLOR=#000000]AGE:[/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=2][COLOR=#000000] 0 y + 10 m[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
    [FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][COLOR=#000000]OPERATION:[/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=2] [COLOR=#000000] DSP[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][COLOR=#000000]FLIGHT No.:[/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=2][COLOR=#000000] JT 892[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][COLOR=#000000]FROM:[/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=2][COLOR=#000000] Ujung Padang[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][COLOR=#000000]TO:[/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=2] [COLOR=#000000] Gorontalo[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][COLOR=#000000]VIA:[/COLOR][/SIZE][FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][COLOR=#000000] -[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/FONT]
    [FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][COLOR=#000000]OCCUPANTS:[/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=2][COLOR=#000000][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
    [FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][COLOR=#000000]PAX:[/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=2][COLOR=#000000] 110[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][COLOR=#000000]CREW:[/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=2][COLOR=#000000] 7[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
    [FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][COLOR=#000000]FATALITIES[/COLOR][SIZE=2][COLOR=#000000]:[/COLOR][/SIZE][/SIZE][/FONT]
    [FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][COLOR=#000000]PAX: [/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=2][COLOR=#000000]0[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][COLOR=#000000]CREW: [/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=2][COLOR=#000000]0[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][COLOR=#000000]OTHER: [/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=2][COLOR=#000000]0[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
    [FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][COLOR=#000000]INJURIES:[/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=2][COLOR=#000000] [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
    [FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][COLOR=#000000]PAX:[/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=2] [COLOR=#000000]0[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][COLOR=#000000]CREW:[/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=2] [COLOR=#000000]0[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][COLOR=#000000]OTHER:[/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=2] [COLOR=#000000] 0[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
    [FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][COLOR=#000000]DAMAGE TO AIRCRAFT: [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][COLOR=#000000]minor /
    substantial [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
    [FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][COLOR=#CCCCCC]2[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
    [FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][COLOR=#000000]On landing in darkness but in favourable weather conditions and good visibility, the aircraft overran the end of the runway after it collided with one or more cows. According to official government reports, the pilots spotted three cows stand on the runway in front of them. Despite the pilot´s attempts to steer around them at least one cow was hit and killed resulting in a loss of braking power. The cow became entagled in one of the maingear resulting in unknown damage. The 737 then ran off the end of the runway by about 10 meters. There were no reports about any injured persons on board. Runway lengh at Gorontalo Airport is 2258 meters.
    [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]http://www.jacdec.de/news/news.htm

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  • lantern
    replied
    Did anyone hear anything about a Lion Air incident in Gorontalo on Monday night last?

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  • jstar
    replied
    Yet another example of a major screw-up in the press, just to be the first with the news:



    Hilarious moment in dramatic event.

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  • redsnapr
    replied
    Indeed they should. Additionally, their reaction to the "stick shaker" (stall warning) came a bit delayed.

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  • lantern
    replied
    Originally posted by redsnapr View Post
    It would be interesting to know from one of the pilot members of the forum if the auto-throttle has to be engaged during a non ILS approach and landing. ILS on runway 28L was reported to be inoperative and the Asiana crew should have known this.
    Even if the auto-throttle was in operation, shouldn't they have being monitoring vitals as air speed?
    Last edited by lantern; 11-07-13, 23:14.

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  • redsnapr
    replied
    It would be interesting to know from one of the pilot members of the forum if the auto-throttle has to be engaged during a non ILS approach and landing. ILS on runway 28L was reported to be inoperative and the Asiana crew should have known this.

    Leave a comment:


  • lantern
    replied
    Items from a BBC article

    "[COLOR=#333333][FONT=Arial]The evacuation of Asiana flight 214, which crash landed on Saturday in San Francisco, was delayed because the pilots initially said passengers should stay put, a safety official has said.[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#333333][FONT=Arial]The evacuation began 90 seconds after the Boeing 777 skidded to a stop - and only after a flight attendant spotted fire outside, the official said.[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=#333333][FONT=Arial]She called the failure to order the evacuation immediately "unusual".

    And

    "Ms Hersman said the pilot who landed the plane later told investigators he was blinded by a light at about 500ft (150m) - which would have been about 34 seconds before impact and the point when the Boeing began to slow down. The possibility that the flash was caused by a laser was not being ruled out, Ms Hersman added.[/FONT][/COLOR]
    [COLOR=#333333][FONT=Arial]Aside from the pilot's relative inexperience in a Boeing 777, it has also emerged that the instructor pilot reported noticing seconds before the crash that the auto-throttle was not maintaining the correct airspeed".
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-23265238

    Seems like poor pilot performance all round. I wounder if the laser claim is an attempt at deflecting blame? It's not clear if it impacted much on the event anyway. [/FONT][/COLOR]

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  • lantern
    replied
    Looks like it was a first for both pilots.

    "[COLOR=#333333][FONT=Arial]As the flight bound from Incheon in South Korea approached San Francisco after its 11-hour journey across the Pacific Ocean, three out of four pilots aboard were in the cockpit.[/FONT][/COLOR]
    [COLOR=#333333][FONT=Arial]Lee Kang-kuk, who was still completing his initial training on the Boeing 777 and had never before flown one into San Francisco, was at the controls, Ms Hersman said on Tuesday.[/FONT][/COLOR]
    [COLOR=#333333][FONT=Arial]Beside him and in command of the aeroplane was an instructor pilot, flying in that capacity for the first time, Ms Hersman said".
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-23249012

    [/FONT][/COLOR]

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  • redsnapr
    replied
    Correct. I wonder what they thought the pre-landing check list is for...

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  • Jaime C
    replied
    Originally posted by redsnapr View Post
    "[COLOR=#333333][FONT=Georgia]The pilot in command of [/FONT][/COLOR]Asiana Airlines Flight 214[COLOR=#333333][FONT=Georgia], the Boeing 777-200ER that crashed on landing at San Francisco International Airport (SFO) July 6, told investigators that he assumed the aircraft’s auto-throttles were engaged and maintaining a speed of 137 knots as the 777 came in for a landing. The aircraft’s speed dropped to just 103 knots at the time of impact."[/FONT][/COLOR]
    Oops, you know what happens when you ASSume such things.

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  • redsnapr
    replied
    "[COLOR=#333333][FONT=Georgia]The pilot in command of [/FONT][/COLOR]Asiana Airlines Flight 214[COLOR=#333333][FONT=Georgia], the Boeing 777-200ER that crashed on landing at San Francisco International Airport (SFO) July 6, told investigators that he assumed the aircraft’s auto-throttles were engaged and maintaining a speed of 137 knots as the 777 came in for a landing. The aircraft’s speed dropped to just 103 knots at the time of impact."

    [/FONT][/COLOR]NTSB: Asiana 777 commanding pilot assumed auto-throttles were maintaining speed | Safety content from ATWOnline

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  • waarmstrong
    replied
    Its very sobering to understand that there were 4 experienced pilots on board, including one considered capable of and qualified to evaluate the performance of other pilots, yet none of them, during the most critical part of any flight, perceived in time to abort the effort, that the visual approach was going awry.

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  • lantern
    replied
    Some interesting views here

    [COLOR=#999966][FONT=Trebuchet MS]July 8, 2013[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#000000][FONT=Trebuchet MS][/FONT][/COLOR]What Went Wrong with Asiana Flight 214

    [COLOR=#000000][FONT=Trebuchet MS]Robert Schapiro[/FONT][/COLOR]
    [COLOR=#000000][FONT=Trebuchet MS][FONT=times new roman]Why would an experienced crew crash a perfectly functional Boeing 777 on what should have been a simple everyday approach and landing in perfect weather?[/FONT]
    [FONT=times new roman]The jury is still out on the official cause of the Asiana crash but most experienced airline pilots have heard enough to know this is most likely a case of gross pilot error.[/FONT]
    [FONT=times new roman]San Francisco runway 28 left had so few electronic landing aids operable, the Asiana pilots had no choice but to do a visual approach. (An approach without electronic guidance using visual runway references only). This should not be a problem for any experienced pilot.[/FONT]
    [FONT=times new roman]But the black box details have already revealed the pilots continued their approach even though it was so poorly executed, recovery became impossible.[/FONT]
    [FONT=times new roman]The underlying reason of their error is one that is both simple and frightening and one that we see occurring more and more frequently.[/FONT]
    [FONT=times new roman]Airline pilots are losing their ability to fly their aircraft.[/FONT]
    [FONT=times new roman]Overreliance on automation has degraded airline pilots' basic flying skills to the point that many seem unable to cope when they are forced by circumstances to hand fly the aircraft.
    [/FONT]http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/...light_214.html
    [/FONT][/COLOR]

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  • redsnapr
    replied
    "[COLOR=#000000]
    [FONT=arial]Pilots generally learn how to fly new aircraft by undergoing many weeks of training at ground school classes and on plane simulators and, finally, by being shadowed by a "check airman." The check airman determines whether the trainee passes or will go back for more training.[/FONT]
    [/COLOR][COLOR=#000000]
    [FONT=arial]Among the four pilots aboard Flight 214 was a "check pilot," U.S. investigators said, who was monitoring Lee."[/FONT]
    [/COLOR]
    [COLOR=#000000][FONT=arial]
    [/FONT][/COLOR]
    Did pilot have enough 777 experience? - CNN.com

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  • redsnapr
    replied
    Originally posted by lantern View Post
    Then how the heck did they get it so wrong considering they had a lot of runway to play with?

    I haven't seen any report mention a third pilot - is that normal procedure?

    Actually, there were four of them onboard.

    "
    [COLOR=#202022][FONT=Georgia]Four pilots were aboard the plane and they rotated on a two-person shift during the flight, according to The Ministry of Land, Infrastructure and Transport in South Korea. The two at the controls at the time of crash were Lee Jeong-min and Lee Gang-guk."
    [/FONT][/COLOR]
    Asiana Airlines president apologizes for crash that killed 2 - CBS News


    I would be very surprised (and obviously concerned) to know none of them was a check pilot during the PIC's first landing into SFO.

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