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Indonesian history - The truth behind the 30th September Movement

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  • #16
    No, but he was responsible for bringing the country to the edge of a very dark abyss. Yet to this day, for some Sukarno still walks on water. Megawati has ridden along on the fame of her father, and has done quite well for it. Richard Nixon visited Sukarno's Indonesia, and reportedly he noted that nowhere else had he witsnessed such a sharp contrast between the squalid poverty and humility of the people and the luxurious decadence and "corrosive vanity" of their leader.

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    • #17
      Ok, I'm omitting the highly in depth discussion here.

      It is true though, Greater version of story is highly subjective. Just read an article at "Jawa Pos" today about one of the PKI executioners on '65 who went crazy nowaday....on another newspaper, it tells a story about PKI's enemy executioner pre '65.... Those two had difference perspectives obviously....here comes another site, the largest indonesian sites-Kaskus-, someone brought an article up and some members responded variously, either as personal experienced as the one being labeled "PKI", or those who had relatives who were victims or witnesses....

      Surprise surprise...
      I still dont know who's to blame now, who'se the right or the bad guys here...
      Its still a humanitarian crime though...

      One thing for sure, Indonesia was surely a victim of the two sides during cold war era....
      "The Beauty of Indonesia is located outside Jakarta"

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      • #18
        A victim? Siapa suruh? By the late fifties, with the end of the PRRI/Permesta affair, the U.S. had ceased efforts to unseat Sukarno. Rather than build on the windfall of stability, abroad and internally, what did Sukarno do? He went on his Konfrontasi charade. Siapa suruh? Painting Indonesia as the victim hides the uncomfortable truth that the mid-1960s pogroms and the ushering of the New Order were primarily the making of Indonesians.

        On a separate though related note, I think the UK had equal or greater motive than the U.S. to defenestrate Sukarno.

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        • #19
          Ok lets separate the macro vs micro perspective here....

          By Macro I mean, if we see Indonesia in terms of the government and their political stances. Policies, economic, etc etc..
          By Micro I mean, whats going on in the real field

          Did you googled the latest keyword" anwar congo- act of killings ".
          This guy slaughtered PKI peope while danced cha cha cha. Also stated, he wander around medan and stabbed random chinese,in some Pride tones. Perhaps the real inspiration of Marvel's , " The Punisher" was him. Other stories, My mother used to witness, Kali Waru ( Waru river, kureksari, surabaya) as a pile of dead bodies floating like every 2-3 hours. When the bodies block the flow, a truck came in and took the bodies away like garbages and fled somewhere. The river itself was red-blooded in color. Every 2-3 days, there were always random guys crucified jesus style (with nails) and bleed to death...

          Those are the micro perspective level....

          Soekarno, Soeharto, CIA, or Mao Zedong or Lenin Stalin, or I dont know who else its on the lists, indirectly responsible for these massacres

          A victim? Siapa suruh? By the late fifties, with the end of the PRRI/Permesta affair, the U.S. had ceased to overthrow Sukarno. Rather than build on the windfall of stability, abroad and internally, what did Sukarno do? He went on his Konfrontasi charade. Siapa suruh? Painting Indonesia as the victim hides the uncomfortable truth that the mid-1960s pogroms and the ushering of the New Order were primarily the making of Indonesians.[/QUPOA victim? Siapa suruh? By the late fifties, with the end of the PRRI/Permesta affair, the U.S. had ceased to overthrow Sukarno. Rather than build on the windfall of stability, abroad and internally, what did Sukarno do? He went on his Konfrontasi charade. Siapa suruh? Painting Indonesia as the victim hides the uncomfortable truth that the mid-1960s pogroms and the ushering of the New Order were primarily the making of Indonesians.
          The one above is macro level, definition...
          Soekarno characteristic was always confrontational. He had pride pride pride with no calculation whatsoever. LOL. Listen to his speeches and tones...
          Lets put aside CIA and KGB factor in this, Tempo magazine released an article about PKI not so long ago, stated the role of SBY's father in law, General Sarwo Edhie role, in '65s. The articles mentioned, or having tendency to accuse the way I read it, that Anti PKI-sentiment , Frictions between PKI and Islamics side, were worsened by the issue of The fifth army issue ( Angkatan kelima) and the kidnapping of the 7 Generals...

          Gen. Ahmad Yani, one of the 7 kidnapped General,were reported to have a very close emotional connection with General Sarwo Edhie ( who was at that moment, RPKAD/KOPASSUS level highest commander). Article reported, SOeharto intel added information to Sarwo Edhie side, intensively, to convinced Sarwo Edhie that PKI was behind all of these and massive erradications were needed to save the Republic. Mrs Ani Yudhoyono, Gen Sarwo's daughter testified', the night before her daddy went to ordered field massacres, she saw her dad kneeled down in front of Gen Ahmad yani, crying 'more like a baby than a soldier'...

          Soeharto borrowed Sarwo hands to clean up PKI...

          Remember, thats only one other side of 65's perspective
          "The Beauty of Indonesia is located outside Jakarta"

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          • #20
            Yes, a rather common theme in the history of military takeovers and dictatorship. The military and the dictator fashion themselves as the only redeemers of the sins of the past and cast themselves as the unwitting and unwilling saviours. Yes, it's a common, repeated script among dictators and dictatorships.

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            • #21
              http://indosurflife.com/2013/02/larg...eastern-shore/

              Fascinating video of the mass killings, including the interviews with the murderers.

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