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Advantages to Marrying an Indonesian Woman

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  • Originally posted by Phalange View Post
    ten years ago i was still underage. you may want to keep it down buddy.
    That's why I asked. I don't think we were in the same social circles. Your statement just reminded me of a girl back then.
    Sasa Bule is having a bayi!

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    • I think this posts touches on a dark industry I have seen in the United States. I could easily have seen the original post to be a testimonial for a mail order bride service. Quite frankly, I am surprised I have not seen an advertisement for one yet. I think Dan (correct me if I am wrong) got that sense when he posted the trailer for "seeking Asian female." There is a stereotype that is propounded by these companies of the "submissive Asian female" or the "submissive Russian female" to American men. The men that are attracted to this are usually the men who's views of women as secondary to them and treated more like property are largely considered unacceptable in their own societies. So the men are told it is not their fault that they can't find a functional relationship from their home country, that it is the fault of women. The solution is to take advantage of women from an economically depressed country (usually eastern European or south east Asian) who will trade subservience for a more economically prosperous future. That the cultural "shame" of divorce will keep the woman with the man regardless of his behavior.

      I am not of the opinion that cross country dating and marriage should not occur. I believe some of these services can help many people that may lack the confidence to find a person close to home. I have seen some that felt they were to socially awkward, but when the environment or situation was changed, they blossomed and found a good partner. Plenty here have met their international spouse by coincidence rather than targeting the "submissive Asian female." (Scoot already made a good post on this)

      What I do find interesting, is I have talked with women who online date looking for westerners. There are more than a couple around. The unanimous consent that I found was a terrifying fear of meeting someone like the OP. No human being I have ever met wants to be looked at like that. What I find interesting is the idea, with the stereotype of female equality if the west, that any woman who is looking for a westerner would look for or would expect to find a man to dominate her.

      While divorce is not always a good thing, sometimes it can be and a necessity. When a marriage gets to the point of physical or emotional abuse a divorce is a viable option. Shaming women who have chosen to not submit to this and have filed for divorce, are single parents, or may have gotten an STD from a philandering spouse is despicable. Just because a woman may have had anyone of these things happen to her does not make her a poor candidate for marriage.
      Last edited by jukung11; 25-07-15, 03:06. Reason: typo

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      • Originally posted by Kimdub View Post
        For years I have felt I was by far the most Conservative poster in this Forum, but you have topped me by miles. I agreed with much of what you originally posted regarding Indonesia has a high percentage of women who were raised to be submissive to their husbands and also a higher percentage of virgins who have reached the age of marriage.
        Factually, I don't see how anyone could really argue with those points in the OP if they've gotten to know the dominant culture a little bit.

        I knew the attacks would be coming, but instead of just sticking to your original thread, you tried to prove you were right by showing how low and dirty everyone was who didn't agree with your way of thinking. You also tried to show your superior intellect by long and rambling posts that I like others stopped bothering to read.
        I wasn't try to show 'superior intellect.'

        . I typically view a guy that will only marry a virgin as a guy that is afraid to be compared sexually to anyone else.
        I know a lot of Americans think that way. I told a male friend who was Asian before I was married that I wanted to marry a virgin, and he said, but your a white guy...and apparently had the same stereotype that whites had about the US about black men. For me, marrying a virgin was a religious thing more than anything else. I didn't want a woman who'd been one flesh with other men. There are other benefits for individuals and society as a whole if everyone does this-- no kids born out of wedlock and raised without a father figure, fewer problems with STDs.

        Teachman (1990) in the Journal of Marriage and Family also found that women who were virgins at marriage or had only slept with the men they married had a much lower chance of 'marital disruption' than those who had had multiple sexual partners. He did not find the same effect for male virginity. But I believe men should be virgins before marriage as well. And I believe it is a positive thing about Indonesia that many men and women are.

        If this were a forum of Indonesian men, I suspect more men would speak up in favor of women being virgins at marriage, and I don't think it's about sexual inadequacy.

        I typically view a guy looking for a submissive wife as a guy who gets home from work, slouches on the couch with the TV immediately turned on and expecting dinner to be ready at the right time. I don't agree, but saw no reason to comment
        Or someone serious about their faith who wants their wife to agree the same way. I don't boss my wife around or lounge around while she gets me something to drink. But it is good that she realizes that the wife should submit to her husband, especially if there is some occasional disagreement. It also gives her a kind of boundary in her mind in how she interacts with me, and in that sense it is intertwined with the issue of respect. My concern with the issue has more to do with marital harmony.

        But then, you complained about personal attacks. I won't go back to the start, but I believe you are the one that started the attacks.
        Someone said I wanted a submissive wife who wouldn't divorce me because I had bad performance in bed. I asked if she was reacted that way because she was a single cat lady.

        What did it for me was your inference that if someone was not a virgin at marriage that she was a slut, STD carrier, easy to want a divorce and so on. That was my wife you were calling a slut and many others wives here.
        I was responding to a particular post along the lines that women sleeping around before marriage did away with vestiges of inequality.

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        • Originally posted by jukung11 View Post
          So the men are told it is not their fault that they can't find a functional relationship from their home country, that it is the fault of women. The solution is to take advantage of women from an economically depressed country (usually eastern European or south east Asian) who will trade subservience for a more economically prosperous future. That the cultural "shame" of divorce will keep the woman with the man regardless of his behavior.
          I don't think mail order bride companies would advertise to men that they are taking advantage of women from economically depressed companies. They'd tell them how much they want American men, Englishmen, older men, etc. Critics of this sort of thing would say they are taking advantage of economically disadvantaged men.

          If a woman agrees to marry a man because of his money, but doesn't love him, is he the one taking advantage of her? Maybe he's naïve.

          I am not of the opinion that cross country dating and marriage should not occur. I believe some of these services can help many people that may lack the confidence to find a person close to home. I have seen some that felt they were to socially awkward, but when the environment or situation was changed, they blossomed and found a good partner. Plenty here have met their international spouse by coincidence rather than targeting the "submissive Asian female." (Scoot already made a good post on this)

          Different accents and language can cover up nerdiness really well, too.


          What I do find interesting, is I have talked with women who online date looking for westerners. There are more than a couple around. The unanimous consent that I found was a terrifying fear of meeting someone like the OP. No human being I have ever met wants to be looked at like that. What I find interesting is the idea, with the stereotype of female equality if the west, that any woman who is looking for a westerner would look for or would expect to find a man to dominate her.
          Personally, I find this to be the ugliest stereotype that keeps coming up in the thread. The two biggest religions in Indonesia teach submission to husbands, Christianity and Islam (or three if you go with names used on KTP.) Lots of Christians in the west, like mysef, believe that. But I don't believe that I'm supposed to dominate or domineer over my wife. I'm to love my wife, seek to please her, etc.

          But I wanted a wife who was on the same page. I wanted a submissive wife who would put husband and family before career, who would be easy to get along with, and be okay with me performing my role as the head of the family.

          While divorce is not always a good thing, sometimes it can be and a necessity. When a marriage gets to the point of physical or emotional abuse a divorce is a viable option. Shaming women who have chosen to not submit to this and have filed for divorce, are single parents, or may have gotten an STD from a philandering spouse is despicable. Just because a woman may have had anyone of these things happen to her does not make her a poor candidate for marriage.
          If that's what you are implying, I never said a woman should be shamed for getting an STD from a philandering spouse. I said if people are virgins before marriage, they don't have to worry about STDs in the marriage.

          People in the west don't just get divorced over adultery or abuse either. There is an awful lot of "I love you, but I'm not in love with you" out there, too. And 65 to 75% of no-fault divorces are filed by women. Maybe some of them just handle the paperwork or go no-fault if the husband cheated, but there are still a lot of people who divorce because they just don't like their partner anymore. That's a pretty big problem if one partner goes in thinking marriage is for life and that the other partners is on the same page. I know a number of people never want to get married because they see that many of them fail.

          There is even a movement of men who never want to marry that put out 'MGTOW' videos on YouTube and their own websites. At least one book has been written on the social trend of men not wanting to marry, and how it is economically rational. The courts in some states in the US tend to reward women who divorce their husbands with the children and child support. That creates economic incentives for men not to marry.

          For someone who believes that marriage is for life, it makes sense to marry someone who thinks you have to work on a marriage and work it out if you get bored or aren't happy with it, instead of someone who will throw in the towel. Indonesia has lower divorce rates on average than many western countries, from what I've read. There are certain suku and subcultures that really don't believe in divorce.

          Adultery and physical abuse are really harmful to a marriage. A man who does those things puts his marriage at risk. That's true to some degree in Indonesia as well.

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          • I must admit that you Link are correct in describing Indonesian culture regarding our view of virginity and toothbrush comment. My very own cousin had a long relationship with a karaoke girl that is older than him that yes have a reputation of course. As liberal as I am, it is very hard for me not to frown upon. A toothbrush that has been used by the whole village? Come on. I am trying to advise him, using words that I chose carefully. But, it is love I guess, they married now and just had a beautiful baby girl.
            Turn out she has a very good manner, kind hearted and help my cousin a lot to ease his burden of economic difficulties and family problem.. Read as she is not spoil nagging little girl and she takes care my Aunty and uncle and the whole household..

            and on the other hand my very own brother who insist on virginity married 3 times.. All are virgin, one run away with someone else, one put my brother in high debt and now my parents had to pay and this last one.. Hopefully the right virgin!

            And I can just say.. A used toothbrush is still much better than a new useless one.

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            • Originally posted by Missnaughty View Post
              I enjoy my life.. I don't post around telling people they are shameless or their act is unacceptable. And I am certainly not worry about you.
              Enjoying your life lmao.

              But hey, in a more serious note. My previous post was more of a question rather than just a statement actually. You elaborate, do you really think your definition of enjoying life is only limited to 'wearing bikini and sleeping around'?

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              • I find the toothbrush analogy fascinating. It seems that Link thinks men shouldn't want to come into contact with a vagina that has come into contact with other men. Fundamentally, the idea is that once touched, a vagina is forever contaminated. That being the case:
                • Is a widow or a rape victim forever considered dirty and not a suitable wife for a decent man? After all, her "toothbrush" is used.

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                • Is it masturbatory, or maybe even slightly gay, for a man to kiss his wife if she has in the past given him a BJ? After all, that mouth he is making contact with has previously touched male genitalia.

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                • Should a woman be required to choose between kissing her children and having oral sex with her husband? If touching a "used" vagina is gross, it must be equally gross for a woman to touch the cheek of an innocent child with the same mouth that touched a penis.

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                • Originally posted by LinkH View Post
                  ... I wasn't try to show 'superior intellect.' ....
                  At least in one respect, your endless screed, is a resounding success.

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                  • As now we're talking about toothbrush, people who hasn't used toothbrush in their entire life might have bad teeth
                    Cheers,

                    Princess Consuela Bananahammock

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                    • And lets not forget - maybe long ago they were all pretty similar - but these days toothbrushes come in all sorts of shapes and sizes, and can be either soft medium or hard......how do you know your preference if you haven't tried a few? Also - the "virgin" who tested the back entrance and based a preference on that might be disappointed when that VIP ticketholder comes through the front door....

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                      • Do you guys remember a toothbrush that was changing colour if you were using it for more that 3 min. and then it was going back again to its original colour?

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                        • Originally posted by SMALLWORLD View Post
                          Do you guys remember a toothbrush that was changing colour if you were using it for more that 3 min. and then it was going back again to its original colour?
                          I don't remember that one ... but I do know that dentists say you should regularly replace your toothbrush!

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                          • [COLOR=#333333]I wonder why instead of using counterarguments, many people choose to be caught up and get personal about it. It should be noted that he is merely expressing his views. This is afterall still a discussion forum, isnt it? People should be free expressing their [valid for debate] opinions without getting staked.

                            Though i gotta say, his views are highly conservative and it would ofc would not apply to the many Indonesian people who arent so... as observed in this thread.[/COLOR][COLOR=#333333]

                            [/COLOR][COLOR=#333333]
                            Originally posted by LinkH
                            Factually, I don't see how anyone could really argue with those points in the OP if they've gotten to know the dominant culture a little bit.
                            I think the cultures you were referring about are the ones that are heavily influenced by religion... There are 2 households that i know of (1 in Pontianak, Kalimantan & 1 other here in Jakarta), where the wife is actually the head of the family (in the sense that she holds more power) and decides on stuffs.. the husband does kinda submit to whatever she wants. Most likely the wife is the one with the money/income.

                            Both households, however, are filled with people of Chinese descent and thus hardly a majority... Still Indonesian though! [/COLOR]
                            Last edited by sand86id; 25-07-15, 12:35.

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                            • Well at the end of the day, no matter where you are, money is power. That is why insecure men do not want their women to be educated - because if they are educated the man loses the advantage and the power and the woman can leave him.....

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                              • Originally posted by sand86id View Post
                                [COLOR=#333333]I wonder why instead of using counterarguments, [/COLOR]
                                Plenty of counterarguments have been offered, and LinkH has ignored quite a few of them. Not that I especially blame him for that; when there is only one of him, and many people on the other side, it isn't practical to respond to every single point that people make.

                                But really, the core issue is that LinkH comes across as thinking he knows all about Indonesian culture, as well as what is correct for male/female interactions. If all he had to say was "hey, I love my submissive Indonesian virgin wife" I doubt anyone would care much beyond thinking "note to self - if I ever go to a forum gathering and LinkH is there, don't expect to have anything in common with him."

                                It's his insistence that he can generalize from his tiny little corner of the world to what everyone else thinks and how everyone else should behave that is insulting to others. If he has any intelligence at all,he knew exactly what he was getting into with his OP. Hopefully he's enjoying himself - at least some of the rest of us obviously are.

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