Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Advantages to Marrying an Indonesian Woman

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Advantages to Marrying an Indonesian Woman

    My wife is Indonesian, and I've noticed that there are a lot of advantages to marrying an Indonesian woman, as opposed to a western woman, especially if you want a traditional kind of wife.

    Low Divorce Rates
    I've read Indonesian divorce rates have risen, but they are still lower than in the US and a lot of western countries. Certain Indonesian people-groups probably have higher divorce rates and some have lower. Sundanese might be more likely to divorce in their lives than Batak, for example. I've lived in the US and over many years, divorces among Indonesians married to expats were rather rare. One couple around here broke up after 5 years of no breakups with maybe 50 or so married couples.

    They Value Caring for the Home
    Unless things have changed, if you tell an Indonesian woman you are looking for a wife who can cook, that you will expect your wife to cook for you, to wash, and clean, she probably won't get bent out of shape. She probably won't call you a male chauvinist or start spouting some kind of feminist agenda. Some Indonesian career girls can't cook, but I think it's more likely that they will take it as their responsibility to learn after marriage than a western woman will. Western women cook, too, but an Indonesian woman will likely see that as a special responsibility of her own. If you like the traditional divisions of labor in a marriage, an Indonesian woman may be more comfortable than a western woman.

    My wife is an incredible cook. She doesn't always cook only Indonesian food. It tends to be very complicated. But she does cook it, and she can cook warung padang food in the US. (Tumeric leaves are the hard-to-come-by ingredient.) Other Indonesian expat wives can some really good food, too, though few of them cook nearly as well as she does.

    Believe in Submitting to Their Husbands
    It seems like there is a general belief in Indonesia and acceptance of the idea that the wife is to submit to her husband. Muslims believe this. Christians hear it at church. It's part of the national culture. If you want a girl who thinks like that, then Indonesian woman may have less idea with submitting to their husbands than a western woman, especially if she has embraced feminism. Whether she is actually submissive or not depends on personality and how you interact in your relationship.

    This is to your advantage because if a woman doesn't have a sense of duty toward respecting her husband, which goes along with being submissive to him, you may bicker with you. She may try to boss you around. But if she sees you as someone to submit to and respect, then she is less likely to bicker with you, call you names, etc. So this is an advantage to marrying an Indonesian woman.

    I met one woman from Indonesian who identified herself as a 'feminist' during my many years there. She was unmarried, lamenting that a guy she liked had married someone else. She had studied abroad. Indonesia seemed relatively untouched by feminist philosophy, even if there were more and more women working.

    If you suggest to Indonesian woman a scenario as to whether a married woman should keep her career, or give it up for her husband who wants to move for a job elsewhere, they might say, "Ikut suami'-- go with the husband.

    Sexual Attitudes
    There are loose women and prostitutes in probably every country. But it seems to be the norm for a woman (or a man) to be a virgin before marriage. There is a stigma to sleeping around before marriage. That works to the advantage of the one marrying an Indonesian. Just think, no STDs from past sexual partners. Research into marriage and family in the past has shown that women who were virgins at marriage were much less likely to divorce than those who had had multiple sexual partners. Indonesia is a great place to look for a virgin to marry, especially if you are looking for one who is not super young, like a teenager.

    I also got the sense that Indonesians generally had a relatively positive attitude toward sex in marriage. Sex jokes were typically about sex in marriage, newly weds having a lot of sex, etc. There did not seem to be this attitude that marriage was bad and that after marriage, the sex life would shut off. When virgins marry, the sex life begins. I think this helps the mindset of a wife about sex. She expects that when she marries, her sex life will start up and maybe even be a very good thing. That's different from a woman who has been preprogrammed by stereotypes and jokes to think that after she marries, she's to stop having sex.

    Like anything else, attitudes on this topic vary from individual to individual. I'm speaking in general terms here.

    Easy for Certain Expatriates to Marry
    I was in Asia for much of my 20's, but my impression is that it is easier, at least for expats, to find a girlfriend and someone to marry in Indonesia. Some young men in the US complain that girls aren't friendly if they try to talk to them. But in Indonesia, people tend to be friendly, so that part isn't hard. Strike up a conversation with a stranger, and the stranger will likely be kind to you. That includes females. Protruding noses (hidung mancung), light skin, and international level wages are all considered attractive characteristics in a potential mate in Indonesia. And Caucasians and other foreigners can look rather exotic to Indonesians. A man who doesn't attract much attention in the US may find that his 'ecotic factor' makes him attractive to at least certain women in Indonesia. An Indonesian woman might experience that in the US. She might not get much attention in Indonesia, but if she went to some small town with few Asians in the US, certain men who like Asian women might find her attractive. So expat men, particularly Caucasians, may find that many attractive Indonesian women want to date them. A man who doesn't get much interest from women in the US may find he's considered exotic, attractive, and a good potential mate in Indonesia. Indonesian women may be friendly to him, may flirt, may give him their business cards as a way of giving him their numbers without being forward, or may ask him to take his mom a little gift if he goes home for Christmas, a hint of her desire to impress who she hopes will be her mother-in-law.

    A lot of westerners date for fun, just to enjoy having a boyfriend or girlfriend. Indonesians seem to date to find a marriage partner. I've seen episodes of 'Take Me Out-Indonesia'. The women are often actually looking for husbands. The hosts talk about couples getting married. The couples sometimes hint at wanting to marry a girl they just met on a game show to take on a first date. If you date a woman in a western country for a while, you may find out she's not interested in marrying you, or not any time soon. If you are looking for a wife and start dating an Indonesian, chances are if she's dating you, she's hoping the two of you will get married. Why should she date if that's not the goal? Some people may be suspicious of a woman who has dated too many people.

    If you want to have kids, the typical Indonesian woman wants to marry and have kids. She may want to have a child the first year of marriage. Be prepared for that. Don't marry her if you don't want kids. Don't date her if you don't want to marry her.

  • #2
    Originally posted by LinkH View Post
    My wife is Indonesian, and I've noticed that there are a lot of advantages to marrying an Indonesian woman, as opposed to a western woman, especially if you want a traditional kind of wife.

    Low Divorce Rates
    I've read Indonesian divorce rates have risen, but they are still lower than in the US and a lot of western countries. Certain Indonesian people-groups probably have higher divorce rates and some have lower. Sundanese might be more likely to divorce in their lives than Batak, for example. I've lived in the US and over many years, divorces among Indonesians married to expats were rather rare. One couple around here broke up after 5 years of no breakups with maybe 50 or so married couples.

    They Value Caring for the Home
    Unless things have changed, if you tell an Indonesian woman you are looking for a wife who can cook, that you will expect your wife to cook for you, to wash, and clean, she probably won't get bent out of shape. She probably won't call you a male chauvinist or start spouting some kind of feminist agenda. Some Indonesian career girls can't cook, but I think it's more likely that they will take it as their responsibility to learn after marriage than a western woman will. Western women cook, too, but an Indonesian woman will likely see that as a special responsibility of her own. If you like the traditional divisions of labor in a marriage, an Indonesian woman may be more comfortable than a western woman.

    My wife is an incredible cook. She doesn't always cook only Indonesian food. It tends to be very complicated. But she does cook it, and she can cook warung padang food in the US. (Tumeric leaves are the hard-to-come-by ingredient.) Other Indonesian expat wives can some really good food, too, though few of them cook nearly as well as she does.

    Believe in Submitting to Their Husbands
    It seems like there is a general belief in Indonesia and acceptance of the idea that the wife is to submit to her husband. Muslims believe this. Christians hear it at church. It's part of the national culture. If you want a girl who thinks like that, then Indonesian woman may have less idea with submitting to their husbands than a western woman, especially if she has embraced feminism. Whether she is actually submissive or not depends on personality and how you interact in your relationship.

    This is to your advantage because if a woman doesn't have a sense of duty toward respecting her husband, which goes along with being submissive to him, you may bicker with you. She may try to boss you around. But if she sees you as someone to submit to and respect, then she is less likely to bicker with you, call you names, etc. So this is an advantage to marrying an Indonesian woman.

    I met one woman from Indonesian who identified herself as a 'feminist' during my many years there. She was unmarried, lamenting that a guy she liked had married someone else. She had studied abroad. Indonesia seemed relatively untouched by feminist philosophy, even if there were more and more women working.

    If you suggest to Indonesian woman a scenario as to whether a married woman should keep her career, or give it up for her husband who wants to move for a job elsewhere, they might say, "Ikut suami'-- go with the husband.

    Sexual Attitudes
    There are loose women and prostitutes in probably every country. But it seems to be the norm for a woman (or a man) to be a virgin before marriage. There is a stigma to sleeping around before marriage. That works to the advantage of the one marrying an Indonesian. Just think, no STDs from past sexual partners. Research into marriage and family in the past has shown that women who were virgins at marriage were much less likely to divorce than those who had had multiple sexual partners. Indonesia is a great place to look for a virgin to marry, especially if you are looking for one who is not super young, like a teenager.

    I also got the sense that Indonesians generally had a relatively positive attitude toward sex in marriage. Sex jokes were typically about sex in marriage, newly weds having a lot of sex, etc. There did not seem to be this attitude that marriage was bad and that after marriage, the sex life would shut off. When virgins marry, the sex life begins. I think this helps the mindset of a wife about sex. She expects that when she marries, her sex life will start up and maybe even be a very good thing. That's different from a woman who has been preprogrammed by stereotypes and jokes to think that after she marries, she's to stop having sex.

    Like anything else, attitudes on this topic vary from individual to individual. I'm speaking in general terms here.

    Easy for Certain Expatriates to Marry
    I was in Asia for much of my 20's, but my impression is that it is easier, at least for expats, to find a girlfriend and someone to marry in Indonesia. Some young men in the US complain that girls aren't friendly if they try to talk to them. But in Indonesia, people tend to be friendly, so that part isn't hard. Strike up a conversation with a stranger, and the stranger will likely be kind to you. That includes females. Protruding noses (hidung mancung), light skin, and international level wages are all considered attractive characteristics in a potential mate in Indonesia. And Caucasians and other foreigners can look rather exotic to Indonesians. A man who doesn't attract much attention in the US may find that his 'ecotic factor' makes him attractive to at least certain women in Indonesia. An Indonesian woman might experience that in the US. She might not get much attention in Indonesia, but if she went to some small town with few Asians in the US, certain men who like Asian women might find her attractive. So expat men, particularly Caucasians, may find that many attractive Indonesian women want to date them. A man who doesn't get much interest from women in the US may find he's considered exotic, attractive, and a good potential mate in Indonesia. Indonesian women may be friendly to him, may flirt, may give him their business cards as a way of giving him their numbers without being forward, or may ask him to take his mom a little gift if he goes home for Christmas, a hint of her desire to impress who she hopes will be her mother-in-law.

    A lot of westerners date for fun, just to enjoy having a boyfriend or girlfriend. Indonesians seem to date to find a marriage partner. I've seen episodes of 'Take Me Out-Indonesia'. The women are often actually looking for husbands. The hosts talk about couples getting married. The couples sometimes hint at wanting to marry a girl they just met on a game show to take on a first date. If you date a woman in a western country for a while, you may find out she's not interested in marrying you, or not any time soon. If you are looking for a wife and start dating an Indonesian, chances are if she's dating you, she's hoping the two of you will get married. Why should she date if that's not the goal? Some people may be suspicious of a woman who has dated too many people.

    If you want to have kids, the typical Indonesian woman wants to marry and have kids. She may want to have a child the first year of marriage. Be prepared for that. Don't marry her if you don't want kids. Don't date her if you don't want to marry her.
    Some interesting ideas here. I would agree with some of your core assertions, but you've over simplified a lot of stuff.
    Sasa Bule is having a bayi!

    Comment


    • #3
      While much of this isn't 'politically correct' in US/Western thought, I can see how it's accurate, although, as you stated, generalizations.

      However, perhaps an inverse post should be made about the disadvantages of a western man marrying a 'typical' Indonesian woman.

      Comment


      • #4
        Here we go again .... We need to move on guys! Oh wait... Did OP mention you can have second, third and continue counting wife if you marry Indonesian woman?
        Last edited by Missnaughty; 19-07-15, 20:38.

        Comment


        • #5
          Oh dear oh dear, its another one of those threads.......

          Here is my story: I'm a human, and I married another human. We both live on Earth together, its a beautiful planet.

          Comment


          • #6
            I understand where you are coming from, but I think it is going too far to imply nothing is cultural.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Missnaughty View Post
              Here we go again .... We need to move on guys! Oh wait... Did OP mention you can have second, third and continue counting wife if you marry Indonesian woman?
              Some sneaky pilots married to American women have done that. My Indonesian wife is a Christian, and she wouldn't go for that. I don't think most Indonesian Muslim women would go for that either. I suspect most 'isteri simpanan' are mistresses. I did meet one taxi driver who'd actually married two women. He'd hidden the fact that he'd married second one, but his first wife eventually accepted it. They say they are supposed to get the first wife's approval.

              But I'm monogamous, and it's harder to find a wife with some of these good marriage values in the US, though I suppose such women exist.

              Comment


              • #8
                Its not particularly surprising that a marriage partner fulfills one's expectations. After all, the choice is made to conform to one's closely held beliefs. It all depends on which qualities one values most.

                Good that the OP found a spouse that makes him happy, but generalizing on that basis is on empirical thin ice. All that I glean from this thread is that the OP has a rather confining view of women.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I am so grateful my (Indonesian) wife does not meet all these stereotypes.
                  [FONT=arial black]
                  [/FONT]

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by LinkH View Post
                    But it seems to be the norm for a woman (or a man) to be a virgin before marriage. There is a stigma to sleeping around before marriage. That works to the advantage of the one marrying an Indonesian. Just think, no STDs from past sexual partners. .
                    Another advantage is that if you are a lousy, inconsiderate lover, your partner has no one to compare you with. So you can be a total jerk in bed, and get away with it.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Yeah, great. No compliments, no flowers, don't have to remember anniversaries or birthdays, go out late with friends without any accountability, make all decisions unilaterally, make someone else responsible for the sh!tty jobs in the household, only interact with the kids when you feel like it, .....
                      [FONT=arial black]
                      [/FONT]

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        This topic is new and interesting.

                        While I don't doubt that there are cultural differences and that Indonesians may often have substantially different marital goals and ideals from Westerners on average, I couldn't escape the feeling that this thread was yet another iteration of "Asian women are traditional doormats." I suggest every expat who is married to an Asian woman consider seeing the documentary "Seeking Asian Female." It was pretty eye-opening, and the attitudes that people from either side have are fraught with stereotypes that ultimately damage their relationship.

                        http://www.seekingasianfemale.com/the-film/

                        http://theyreallsobeautiful.com/


                        Last edited by DanInAceh; 20-07-15, 13:00.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by jstar View Post
                          Yeah, great. No compliments, no flowers, don't have to remember anniversaries or birthdays, go out late with friends without any accountability, make all decisions unilaterally, make someone else responsible for the sh!tty jobs in the household, only interact with the kids when you feel like it, .....

                          I give my wife complements. My wife isn't that crazy about flowers, but appreciates it if I buy them on occasion. She's not really that into birthdays. Her family did not celebrate them growing up. But I try to do something for hers, which is right around Christmas anyway. I don't care that much to do much on my own birthday either. I spend time with my own kids, and I do help with the housework. I do appreciate her attitude about housework, though. It's better to marry a hard worker with a good attitude. I am out late if I'm working. I don't go out late with friends and leave my wife at home. I wouldn't say I make all decisions unilaterally.

                          A woman who has the values I mentioned probably wouldn't react well to having a husband like you describe. If she handles it well, they probably wouldn't have a good marriage because of his behavior. My post focused on positive traits that Indonesian wives have, but husbands need to have good character, too, to have a successful marriage.

                          It's interesting that a lot of expats start with the assumption that their culture is superior when it comes to issues like this. Your typical Indonesian woman's values about marriage are probably pretty similar to those of an American woman in the 1930's, '40's or '50s, with maybe a bit less focus on Disney-style romantic love and a bit more of a practical approach to provision and other practical concerns about being a good match.

                          The divorce rate in the US is way higher than in Indonesia, and the divorce rate in the US is much higher than it was in the 30's through the '50's. We could probably say the same about a number of European countries. If a culture embraces certain gender roles for men and women, that doesn't mean women are necessarily being treated badly.

                          Lack of respect for men makes men unhappy in a marriage, but it also makes women unhappy in marriage. IMO, that's one reason the rise of feminism has led to more divorce in the west. I hope Indonesia continues to be spared the worse of this philosophy. It doesn't need a battle of the sexes.
                          Last edited by LinkH; 20-07-15, 13:55.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Puspawarna View Post
                            Another advantage is that if you are a lousy, inconsiderate lover, your partner has no one to compare you with. So you can be a total jerk in bed, and get away with it.
                            I've heard Indonesians say stuff like, "Aku tidak mau isteri yang bekas." One man said in English, "I don't want a second-hand woman." If you've got a choice between a toothbrush that the whole village has used, and a new one.... you get the idea. I read recently that scientists have found Y chromosomes in the blood of women who sleep around, and that it is possible that some genetic material from a woman's previous lovers may be found in her children, even if they are not the father. I think they call that the Chimera hypothesis.

                            As far as your comment goes, if a man is inclined to do that, women talk about such things a lot more than men do, so I think he'd be found out. Those who are virgins at marriage can still be diligent and enthusiastic about pleasing their partners. It's especially good if they aren't out pleasing other people's partners. I'd imagine those who are virgins at marriage are lower risk for that than those with looser sexual morals. There is some peer-reviewed academic research that supports the hypothesis that women who are virgins at marriage are less likely to divorce than those who have had multiple sexual partners (Teachman, 1990, Journal of Marriage and Family).

                            IMO, many western cultures are really messed up not to place value on virginity.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by DanInAceh View Post
                              This topic is new and interesting.

                              While I don't doubt that there are cultural differences and that Indonesians may often have substantially different marital goals and ideals from Westerners on average, I couldn't escape the feeling that this thread was yet another iteration of "Asian women are traditional doormats." I suggest every expat who is married to an Asian woman consider seeing the documentary "Seeking Asian Female." It was pretty eye-opening, and the attitudes that people from either side have are fraught with stereotypes that ultimately damage their relationship.

                              http://www.seekingasianfemale.com/the-film/

                              http://theyreallsobeautiful.com/



                              I haven't followed all the links, but the trailer to this looks really interesting. Marrying a mainland Chinese woman would be a very different experience, culturally, I would imagine, from marrying an Indonesian. But it would be really hard to marry with no language in common. My wife and I had some language issues to overcome when we were dating, but she did speak some English and I had already learned some Indonesian before I met her.

                              I don't like the implication that women who have the values I described are 'doormats', either. Being submissive and respectful is not the same thing as being a 'doormat.' Marines, right out of boot camp, have been trained to be submissive and to respect authority, but we don't think of them as doormats.

                              Actually valuing taking care of the home and the household is a positive thing, especially when children are involved. In the west, some people look down on a woman if she hasn't gone to college and had a career before marriage. Some Indonesians are like that, but percentages of people are like that are much lower in Indonesia, since a smaller percent has gone to college. But caring for the home, having children, and taking care of them seem to be given greater importance in the culture. That's a good thing, especially the value associated with taking care of children.

                              I've been married for over 15 years, btw, so I'm not just operating based on stereotypes. I've also lived in the US, seen marriages in the Indonesian community (usually Indonesian women with western men) and considered differences between them and other people around.

                              As far as cultures go, I think Indonesian culture nurtures a lot of good wifely traits. I get the impression that the Philippines does as well. I don't know how well that applies all over Asia. There is something to be said for marrying a conservative woman, though, and Asian cultures tend to be 'conservative' in one way or another.

                              For western men, one thing I'd advise care about if you are looking for a wife is that some women are more materially-minded than you might want. On the one hand, wanting a husband who can provide may be a legitimate concern. But if they see white, or foreign, and white=money or foreign=money, their motivations may not be what you'd want. There are also emotionally unstable people in any country you go to, including Indonesia. I had an emotionally unstable female stalker for a while. I wasn't interested, but she sure was interested in me. She found out where I lived and showed up at 6 AM or so saying, "I love you" outside my window, calling my name on Saturday when I was trying to sleep in. I had the maids send her away and asked the satpam at the gate not to let her in again.

                              Foreign men also have to realize that Indonesians take dating more seriously. A couple may call each other 'friends' until they are engaged, skipping over calling themselves boyfriend and girlfriend. Dating is all marriage oriented. If you are dating, it's usually not just for fun in the Indonesian's eyes. You are preparing to marry. If you hold hands or kiss, it's a bigger deal. If you sleep together and don't marry her, you've wronged her rather badly. You've broken (rusakin) her if you've taken her virginity, and greatly ruined her chances for marriage. Her expectations for dating are likely different from an expat's. An expat should keep in mind that dating isn't usually just for fun in Indonesia.
                              Last edited by LinkH; 20-07-15, 14:24.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X