Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Former Indonesian Marrying an Indonesian! How to Stay AND Work in Indonesia Legally?!

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Former Indonesian Marrying an Indonesian! How to Stay AND Work in Indonesia Legally?!

    Hi people =)

    Glad to have found this forum as many of you seem to be in the similar boat as I am!

    I was born and raised in Indonesia, and lived there for 15 years. I am now a naturalized Canadian citizen (living in Canada), and I am getting married with an Indonesian woman (who lives in Indonesia) in November 2012, in Indonesia.

    I really like Indonesia, and if possible at all, after the wedding I'd like to remain there permanently. (If things didn't go well, though, I could always sponsor her to Canada.)

    The nature of my present job here in Canada is such that it can be done over the internet, and I've told my Canadian employer about my wedding plan, and he happily agreed that after the wedding, I can stay in Indonesia as long as I'd like, and still work for him (again, since the job can be done remotely.)

    My questions are:

    1. How can I possibly stay AND work in Indonesia legally? I've done a bit of research, and I understand there's KITAS and KITAP. But from my understanding, if I got those 2 by being sponsored by an Indonesian citizen, I have no legal rights to work. What can I do then?

    I think the Indonesian government doesn't allow foreigners to work because they wouldn't want them to compete with local job seekers. But considering my employer is in Canada (and it's my current job anyway), I don't see how I am a competition against Indonesia's local workforce.

    2. Suppose it turns out that it's possible for me to remain and work in Indonesia legally. Still, when I am arriving in Indonesia (probably a few weeks before the wedding), logically I'll be arriving with a 90-day visitor visa (or at least a 30-day VOA). But if I were to remain in Indonesia, obviously I'd be arriving with a one-way (instead of return) ticket. The immigration officer at the Indonesian airport will most likely ask me why I don't have a return ticket. What should I tell the officer then? Are there any documents that I could bring with me, that can help him/her realize that I'm coming with the intention to LEGALLY marry my Indonesian spouse, LEGALLY remain in Indonesia, and LEGALLY work (remotely) for my Canadian employer?

    3. I've heard about the concept of repatriation, which only applies to former Indonesians. Since I am indeed a former Indonesian, I wonder if I could use this for my advantage...and if so, how do I go about doing that?

    I really want to do things right, and want to make sure to do everything legally, so it would be great if you guys could help me out =).

    Cheers!

  • #2
    Originally posted by fandv View Post
    ..I was born and raised in Indonesia, .. I am now a naturalized Canadian citizen .. , and I am getting married with an Indonesian woman .. in November 2012 ..

    1. How can I possibly stay AND work in Indonesia legally? ...

    2. ...logically I'll be arriving with a 90-day visitor visa (or at least a 30-day VOA). But if I were to remain in Indonesia, obviously I'd be arriving with a one-way (instead of return) ticket... I don't have a return ticket. What should I tell the officer then? ..

    3. I've heard about the concept of repatriation, which only applies to former Indonesians. Since I am indeed a former Indonesian, I wonder if I could use this for my advantage...and if so, how do I go about doing that?
    .................................
    1) In November 2012 there will be a new work regulation which will give you more rights than the present work regulation . So better wait some 10 months more from now to know about .

    2) There is no 90 days Visit Visa . The best visa for you to come is the Visit Visa/Social Cultural (Visa Kunjungan/Sosial Budaya , Sosbud Visa) . See references below about the ticket .

    http://www.expat.or.id/info/docs.html

    http://www.livinginindonesiaforum.or...y-ticket/page2
    http://www.livinginindonesiaforum.or...12650-Question ,ticket
    http://www.livinginindonesiaforum.or...ne-way-flights , outward ticket

    3) There is a new Indonesian immigration law ( UNDANG-UNDANG REPUBLIK INDONESIA NOMOR 6 TAHUN 2011 - TENTANG KEIMIGRASIAN ) which already gives , to foreigners married with Indonesians , many advantages to live/work in Indonesia .
    I would guess it should be better for you to keep your present citizenship .
    Last edited by marcus; 13-08-11, 11:04.

    Comment


    • #3
      I fully agree with this, especially you aim for mobility to travel around the word ....
      The only advantage you get if you give up your nationality is the right to own Land and Property ...


      Originally posted by marcus View Post
      I would guess it should be better for you to keep your present citizenship .

      Comment


      • #4
        Send a PM to forum member cup1981. He came here under circumstances extremely similar to yours. (The main difference being that he had no prior connection to Indonesia). His wife is Indonesian, and he works over the internet for a non-Indonesia-based employer(s). He is a nice guy who has received a lot of support from this forum, so I bet he will gladly give you tips based on his experience.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by adindas View Post
          I fully agree with this, especially you aim for mobility to travel around the word ....The only advantage you get if you give up your nationality is the right to own Land and Property ...
          Could you explain about the mobility part ?

          Indonesians has easy mobility too around the world... Except israel of course..
          Last edited by roysingh; 13-08-11, 23:37.

          Comment


          • #6
            Adindas surely means visa requirements to travel to most countries outside ASEA.
            "Science is the philosophy of discovery. Intelligent design is a philosophy of ignorance"

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by redsnapr View Post
              Adindas surely means visa requirements to travel to most countries outside ASEA.
              I didn't feel any problems when I got my 5 years multiple entry business visa for states ? And this is my 3rd time getting the same visa...

              Comment


              • #8
                Good for you.
                "Science is the philosophy of discovery. Intelligent design is a philosophy of ignorance"

                Comment


                • #9
                  With Canadian passport you could travel to many countries without Visa. Even when you need a Visa such as to Indonesia you could still get VOA, no issue at all. Suppose you are in Indonesia and want to travel to Australia, NZ, Europe, Africa, America with Canadian passport you could just wake up, buy a ticket online and go.

                  Apart from ASEAN countries and few other countries, where could you travel without VISA with Indonesian Passport ?

                  Have you tried to apply a Schengen Visa to Europe? What I mean here is not to join a tour, as this is quite easy. But apply a visa individually. If you have done that than you probably need to write your experience how to get that, what documents did you need to submit ? …. How long did it take until you get one ?.... How much did it cost you ?

                  Imagine a person who is living in Merauke/Irian Jaya when he wants to apply a single entry Visa for the first time to UK Europe or to many industrialized countries. He needs to schedule an appointment to be seen for an Interview in Jakarta. So apart from ridiculous documents he needs to attach, the ticket to visit that country, he still needs to add the cost for local return ticket, Hotel, Visa application fee, on the top of it. And do not forget this is applicable to each time he wants to apply Visa for the first time.

                  Also you could try to find out the stories of Indonesian Students, who study in the UK when they try applying a schengen Visa for the first time ....

                  Unfortunately, when Visa is concerned Indonesia is still included in the same category like any other least developed countries like Somalia, Sudan, Pakistan, Afghanistan, etc. Also Indonesia is included as a terrorist country. Sad, but true ....

                  Normally if you already get a multiple entry Visa once, then it is easy to get a multiple entry Visa for the second, the third time, etc. This is not a real hassle. So your experience with multiple entries in the US it is not the same to what we are talking about here. The problem will normally arise when you apply for the first time …

                  Originally posted by roysingh View Post
                  Could you explain about the mobility part ?
                  Indonesians has easy mobility too around the world... Except israel of course..
                  Originally posted by roysingh View Post
                  I didn't feel any problems when I got my 5 years multiple entry business visa for states ? And this is my 3rd time getting the same visa...
                  Last edited by adindas; 14-08-11, 13:57.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Hey Fandv -

                    I received your PM and answering your question is kinda tricky, but I will try. Yes, I am a freelancer online, but I am an independent contractor -- my "company" is based in the US and my "company" provides content for other companies all over the world.

                    Technically, what I do is "illegal," however, the Indonesian government has far bigger fish to fry than one guy bringing money into the local economy without taking jobs from locals. So I have never been bothered by any official regarding this, and I have actually slipped up and said what I do to Immigration a few times.

                    Typically, I will say "I am living off savings" when they ask.

                    Now, there is some verbiage in the new law stating that we can work legally in Indo, but I don't think it's all finalized yet. According to the majority of the people I speak to on here, that part of the law will likely be heavily amended once its official. So, I don't count on that.

                    So basically, yes, you can work here online, just keep it to yourself and play the "savings" card if asked. If there is a way to change your employment status to an independent contractor, it relieves you of some of the laws, as there is no law against you maintaining your Canadian-based "business" while over here and living off the profits, to my knowledge.

                    As for the visa selection... I would say to get your KITAS from the Embassy in Canada, it will save you the hassle of the occasional corrupt (but getting better) officials in Immigration. The Embassy will try to convince you to get a Sosbud, but don't let them convince you. It's just them being lazy.

                    You will likely need to have some cash saved (20+ jt.) to get the KITAS, but you can borrow that from someone if you do not have it. You just need it in a bank account for a short period of time for the government to see. Just repeatedly tell them that your wife will work and that you plan to live off your savings.

                    If they will not issue a KITAS, then definitely go with a SOSBUD, and convert it to a KITAS as soon as you get to Indo. Do not let them try and tell you that you need to wait four months, that law was stricken from the books in 2004 -- I can email you the law if you should need it. I have dealt with Bandung Immigration before, and I have nothing but good stuff to report from them, so you are lucky there. The officers in the KanWil are always professional towards me and never asked me for bribes.

                    I would not mess with a VOA, they are tough to convert and you will likely have to do a visa trip to Singapore or Kuala Lumpur.

                    Good luck!!
                    Last edited by cup1981; 14-08-11, 07:11.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Thanks for the tips Marcus!

                      Am I correct to understand that you live in Bandung? That's where I'll be planning to live, and I was just wondering how it's been treating you so far .

                      As a little boy (when I lived in Indonesia) I went to Bandung multiple times (weekend trips usually), and I went there once this past June, but I don't really know how it's like to live there in 2011.

                      You mentioned about Undang Undang Nomor 6......how is that gonna be advantageous to foreigners? Are you saying that once the new law's been approved, foreigners (such as KITAS holders, sponsored by an Indonesian) will be allowed to work in Indonesia?







                      Originally posted by marcus View Post
                      1) In November 2012 there will be a new work regulation which will give you more rights than the present work regulation . So better wait some 10 months more from now to know about .

                      2) There is no 90 days Visit Visa . The best visa for you to come is the Visit Visa/Social Cultural (Visa Kunjungan/Sosial Budaya , Sosbud Visa) . See references below about the ticket .

                      http://www.expat.or.id/info/docs.html

                      http://www.livinginindonesiaforum.or...y-ticket/page2
                      http://www.livinginindonesiaforum.or...12650-Question ,ticket
                      http://www.livinginindonesiaforum.or...ne-way-flights , outward ticket

                      3) There is a new Indonesian immigration law ( UNDANG-UNDANG REPUBLIK INDONESIA NOMOR 6 TAHUN 2011 - TENTANG KEIMIGRASIAN ) which already gives , to foreigners married with Indonesians , many advantages to live/work in Indonesia .
                      I would guess it should be better for you to keep your present citizenship .

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Puspawarna View Post
                        Send a PM to forum member cup1981. He came here under circumstances extremely similar to yours. (The main difference being that he had no prior connection to Indonesia). His wife is Indonesian, and he works over the internet for a non-Indonesia-based employer(s). He is a nice guy who has received a lot of support from this forum, so I bet he will gladly give you tips based on his experience.

                        Thanks for the referral to cup1981, Puspawarna! Such a big help to get to know someone with a very similar situation as mine! In fact it's been quite hard to find anyone else with a remote job like he and I...

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by cup1981 View Post
                          Hey Fandv -

                          I received your PM and answering your question is kinda tricky, but I will try. Yes, I am a freelancer online, but I am an independent contractor -- my "company" is based in the US and my "company" provides content for other companies all over the world.

                          Technically, what I do is "illegal," however, the Indonesian government has far bigger fish to fry than one guy bringing money into the local economy without taking jobs from locals. So I have never been bothered by any official regarding this, and I have actually slipped up and said what I do to Immigration a few times.

                          Typically, I will say "I am living off savings" when they ask.

                          Now, there is some verbiage in the new law stating that we can work legally in Indo, but I don't think it's all finalized yet. According to the majority of the people I speak to on here, that part of the law will likely be heavily amended once its official. So, I don't count on that.

                          So basically, yes, you can work here online, just keep it to yourself and play the "savings" card if asked. If there is a way to change your employment status to an independent contractor, it relieves you of some of the laws, as there is no law against you maintaining your Canadian-based "business" while over here and living off the profits, to my knowledge.

                          As for the visa selection... I would say to get your KITAS from the Embassy in Canada, it will save you the hassle of the occasional corrupt (but getting better) officials in Immigration. The Embassy will try to convince you to get a Sosbud, but don't let them convince you. It's just them being lazy.

                          You will likely need to have some cash saved (20+ jt.) to get the KITAS, but you can borrow that from someone if you do not have it. You just need it in a bank account for a short period of time for the government to see. Just repeatedly tell them that your wife will work and that you plan to live off your savings.

                          If they will not issue a KITAS, then definitely go with a SOSBUD, and convert it to a KITAS as soon as you get to Indo. Do not let them try and tell you that you need to wait four months, that law was stricken from the books in 2004 -- I can email you the law if you should need it. I have dealt with Bandung Immigration before, and I have nothing but good stuff to report from them, so you are lucky there. The officers in the KanWil are always professional towards me and never asked me for bribes.

                          I would not mess with a VOA, they are tough to convert and you will likely have to do a visa trip to Singapore or Kuala Lumpur.

                          Good luck!!


                          Hi cup1981,

                          Thanks for the reply! It gives me a sigh of relief to know that at least someone in a similar situation was able to get by in Indonesia just fine .

                          I'm very familiar with the type of work that you do, actually, and I find it admirable that you are able to utilize your writing skills to support yourself while in Indonesia!! I'm a Search Engine Marketing Specialist working for a financial firm...and since much of job is done online, that's the reason why my employer doesn't mind to let me work remotely. By the way...not sure if you are aware, but you can easily get writing jobs by just going to Elance, Vworker, etc... =)

                          Some more questions:

                          1. Do you think it's worth it/necessary to own an Indonesian bank account? I have a Canadian debit card, and last time I went to Indonesia (a few months ago), I was able to use it to withdraw money from the ATMs without any problems whatsoever. Just wondering...

                          2. You said that I should request for KITAS from the Indonesian embassy here in Canada. However, take a look at this:

                          http://www.expat.or.id/info/docs.html#KITAS

                          It says:

                          KITAS can be issued for a variety of reasons:

                          1. for foreign investors (PMA owner)
                          2. for foreign experts - most of the expats have this kind of KITAS. They theoretically have skills that Indonesians don't have. Thus they are called tenaga ahli/expert.
                          3. for foreign researchers who come for research, usually with an agreement of an Indonesian university
                          4. for dependant foreign spouse/kids, sponsored by a foreigner, holder of a KITAS himself/herself or being an Indonesian citizen
                          5. for religious clerics (foreign priests/imam, etc.)
                          6. for retired foreign citizens
                          7. for former Indonesian citizens, returning to Indonesia in the framework of repatriation to get back their citizenship


                          As you can see, none of the above really apply to me. [COLOR=#ff0000]#7[/COLOR] sounds nice, but if I were to repatriate myself, it would be in the very very far future, so it doesn't apply now.

                          [COLOR=#ff0000]#4[/COLOR]: that's the tricky part...what do they mean by "spouse"? Does it include boyfriend/girlfriend relationships? Or does it have to be a marriage?
                          My wedding is planned for November 2012, and I plan to arrive in Indonesia in October 2012. So, obviously if I were to apply for the KITAS here in Canada, it would be done within months or weeks before October 2012, which means I won't be married to my Indonesian girlfriend as of yet. Since that's the case, will she be able to sponsor me for KITAS then?

                          Cheers!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            No it doesn't include boyfriend/girlfriend. Spouse here means wife/husband
                            [COLOR="navy"]Leave the gun, take the cannoli[/COLOR] - The Godfather

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by nickie View Post
                              No it doesn't include boyfriend/girlfriend. Spouse here means wife/husband
                              Yup that's what I thought! I suspect that the Indonesian embassy here in Canada will wanna see a marriage certificate, which I won't have till November 2012. I am coming to Indonesia in February for 2 weeks...and she and I will be doing the marriage preparation course. We will be getting married in Bandung's cathedral, and according to their clerks, the certificate from the civil registry (catatan sipil) will only be given after the church wedding...so I suspect we may not even be able to at least get married at the civil registry in February, so at least we could get a marriage certificate =(. *Sigh* I wonder if the marriage course certificate would suffice...(probably not)...

                              Canada used to provide fiancee/fianceƩ visas, but nowadays the sponsor and the person being sponsored have to be married (or at least in a common law relationship) before a sponsorship is allowed. Same as Indonesia I guess.

                              Oops I digressed!! Anyway, so what are my options then?! I guess either SosBud or VOA eh? No more, no less??

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X