KITAS sponsored by the Indonesian spouse

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  • atlantis
    Banned
    • Jul 2008
    • 16594

    #31
    Originally posted by Dr. Michael Beer View Post
    Hope you forgive my ignorance. Just few questions more:
    1. Can you exactly quote the law (number, date, name) for the Kitas istri please
    Peraturan menteri Hukum dan HAM RI nomor M.01-IZ.01.10 tahun 2007 tentang perubahan kedua atas keputusan menteri kehakiman RI nomor M.02-IZ.01.10 tahun 1995 tentang visa singgah, visa kunjungan, visa tinggal terbatas, izin masuk dan izin keimigrasian"

    The modified article 67 reads now:

    [FONT=Times New Roman]
    Pasal 67
    (1) Alih Status Izin Kunjungan menjadi Izin Tinggal Terbatas dapat diberikan kepada
    orang asing dalam rangka:
    a. menanamkan modal;
    b. bekerja sebagai tenaga kerja ahli;
    c. bekerja sebagai pimpinan perusahaan;
    d. melaksanakan tugas sebagai rohaniwan;
    e. mengikuti pendidikan dan pelatihan;
    f. mengadakan penelitian ilmiah;
    g. menggabungkan diri dengan suami atau istri warga negara Indonesia;
    h. menggabungkan diri dengan suami atau istri pemegang Izin Tinggal Terbatas atau
    Izin Tinggal Tetap;
    i. menggabungkan diri dengan orang tua pemegang Izin Tinggal Terbatas atau Izin
    Tinggal Tetap bagi anak yang berumur di bawah 18 (delapan belas) tahun dan
    belum kawin;
    [/FONT]
    Point g is the one which is of interests to you. It means that a foreigner can change his/her status from a visit visa to a temporary stay permit (read KITAS) for the reason of joining his/her indonesian spouse.

    The right of having a KITAS if you are married with an Indonesan spouse is guaranteed by the citizenship law (undang undang nomor 12 tahun 2006 tentang kewarganegaraan RI)

    Originally posted by Dr. Michael Beer View Post
    2. If I get sponsored by my wife and want to go abroad, do I need this Multiple exit-reentry permit?
    Yes you do.

    Originally posted by Dr. Michael Beer View Post
    3. How often I must renew this kind of KITAS?
    Yearly

    Originally posted by Dr. Michael Beer View Post
    5. When does it become permanent, meaning not longer to be extended?
    After 2 full years in Indonesia (ie KITAS ke 3), you can apply for a KITAP which is valid for 5 years. However, there is still controversies about this rule and you will have to fight hard to get it enforced. Many KanIm will requst 5 years in a row on the same KITAS before approving a KITAP. A KITAP is valid 5 years without needing a renewal.
    Only indonesian citizenship could allow you not to have to renew your immigration status. Being married with an Indonesan wife wouldbe a very good way to reach this goal...

    Comment

    • Dr. Michael Beer
      Member
      • Dec 2008
      • 128

      #32
      .Please,could any of the immigration gurus get this link working - it gives error messages:

      2. I just returned back from Imigrasi Singaraja, Bali. They have an "official" fee-liste, but it shows e.g. for 1 year Exit-Re-Entry Rp 1,750.000...Does anybody have a REAL one? Would this be valid for whole RI? It should be...
      3. ad 19) What police MAIN Resort is meant, where I can get issued the SKLD? Would this be for Bali the district I live or the Headquarter in Denpasar. Could you please state the exact name.
      Very grateful

      Last but not least: is there - like in other countries - a website where you can download the formulir needed? It would make a lot of help, I have to travel anyway around 120km.

      Comment

      • atlantis
        Banned
        • Jul 2008
        • 16594

        #33
        Originally posted by Dr. Michael Beer View Post
        .Please,could any of the immigration gurus get this link working - it gives error messages:
        http://www.imigrasi.go.id/popUp.inc....detail&faqId=3
        I am not sure to understand what you mean here
        You may want to send an email directly to the imigrasi. None of the users here are working for Imigrasi either.

        Originally posted by Dr. Michael Beer View Post
        2. I just returned back from Imigrasi Singaraja, Bali. They have an "official" fee-liste, but it shows e.g. for 1 year Exit-Re-Entry Rp 1,750.000...Does anybody have a REAL one? Would this be valid for whole RI? It should be...
        The official fee list that regulates immigration fees is obviously valid for the whole territory of Indonesia. The exact reference for the law is: Peraturan Pemerintah nomor 19 tahun 2007 and you can download it by clicking on the link. Look at the roman numbers VII.
        The price for an Izin Masuk Kembali are:
        1. IDR 200.000 for a single entry Izin Masuk Kembali
        2. IDR 600.000 for a multiple entry Izin Msuk Kembali valid 6 months
        3. IDR 1.000.000 for a multiple entry Izin Msuk Kembali valid 1 year.
        4. IDR 1.750.000 for a multiple entry Izin Msuk Kembali valid 2 years.

        With a KITAS index 317 or 319 (I don't remenber what is your Index of KITAS, but from what I recall it is either a retirement KITAS - 319 - or a KITAS sponsored by your Indonesian wife - 317... Correct?) only the number 1., 2. or 3. are available to you.

        Originally posted by Dr. Michael Beer View Post
        3. ad 19) What police MAIN Resort is meant, where I can get issued the SKLD? Would this be for Bali the district I live or the Headquarter in Denpasar. Could you please state the exact name.
        I refer to the POLDA office of the place you live. Unfortunately I do not have any address for Bali or any other city in Indonesia, but the city where I live. Kindly ask to a local to point you the Kantor POLDA.

        Originally posted by Dr. Michael Beer View Post
        Last but not least: is there - like in other countries - a website where you can download the formulir needed? It would make a lot of help, I have to travel anyway around 120km.
        Erm... I am afraid that you won't have such website in Indonesia available before a few years. I may even be optimistic with this statement.

        Comment

        • beebop
          Member
          • Nov 2008
          • 1008

          #34
          I plan to apply for a kitas next week but i have 2 issues that i hope someone can give me advice on.

          1. My wife is not in possession of her KTP Due to previous problems we had when trying to get our marriage certificate. She is applying now to get it back but the forms were lost by tiki during delivery and now the procedure has to start all over again. Can we get away with a photocopy of the KTP?

          2. The bank refuses to give us a bank statement because the account is still new. The account in question is a time deposito so i cant just close it and go to another bank. Can we use the BILYET DEPOSITO BERJANGKA That was issued to us when we opened the account to show to immigration?

          Thanks for any advice that you can give.

          Comment

          • atlantis
            Banned
            • Jul 2008
            • 16594

            #35
            Originally posted by beebop View Post
            My wife is not in possession of her KTP Due to previous problems we had when trying to get our marriage certificate. She is applying now to get it back but the forms were lost by tiki during delivery and now the procedure has to start all over again. Can we get away with a photocopy of the KTP?
            You can try, but for this matter it is not sure that it works. It belongs to KanIm to check all documents for a first issuance of a KITAS and they should normally check the original one. However, they may well be happy just with a copy of it. Hard to predict. Just try and keep handy your wife's passport just in case.
            Originally posted by beebop View Post
            The bank refuses to give us a bank statement because the account is still new. The account in question is a time deposito so i cant just close it and go to another bank. Can we use the BILYET DEPOSITO BERJANGKA That was issued to us when we opened the account to show to immigration?
            It will do fine. Any prove that you have money enough to live in Indonesia is suitable. Give the copy of it, but keep wth you th orgina in case they wanna se it.
            By the way, I am in France, but I am gonna ask my wife to contact your wife regarding our PMs. I'll do it before the beginning of June.

            Comment

            • beebop
              Member
              • Nov 2008
              • 1008

              #36
              Originally posted by atlantis View Post
              The foreigner goes to his local KanIm (no mandatory waiting period of 4 months), along with his indonesian wife to apply for the conversion of his izin kunjungan in an ITAS. (Pasal 47 & Pasal 48* PP nomor 32 thn 1994)
              Can someone please show me where i can find this law, especially something that says that i no longer need to wait 4 months. I need to print it to show the kanim. They insist that we have to leave the country and return using visa 317. When i tell them i want to process my kitas from within indonesia, they say that the process can only begin once my sosbud has been extended 4 times (not 4 months, but 4 times) which means that my sosbud will expire anyway and i will have to leave the country anyway. I know this means they dont know what they doing and also tactics to force us to do their way, but i honestly dont know how to aproach them without any official laws to force them to process my kitas.
              I feel that it will be easier to just do it their way by exiting the country to singapore and enter back again using visa 317 but i first want to try quoting the law to them to see what kind of response i can get. The reason i want to also be a bit forcefull with them is because my wifes passport is expired, so if we gonna do it the way immigration want, its going to involve alot more stress for us trying to apply a new passport for my wife since we dont have all the papers needed to do that either.
              Many thanks to all those who assist us.

              Comment

              • atlantis
                Banned
                • Jul 2008
                • 16594

                #37
                Originally posted by beebop View Post
                Can someone please show me where i can find this law, especially something that says that i no longer need to wait 4 months. I need to print it to show the kanim. They insist that we have to leave the country and return using visa 317. When i tell them i want to process my kitas from within indonesia, they say that the process can only begin once my sosbud has been extended 4 times (not 4 months, but 4 times) which means that my sosbud will expire anyway and i will have to leave the country anyway.
                They refer wrongly to the old article 48 of the Peraturan Pemerintah nomor 32 tahun 1994. It has been amended in 2005... but they are still unaware of it.

                PM me an email address and I will forward you any text of law you need and highlight the articles you need to show 'em. Be cool when you "teach" them the law... they usually don't like it when a foreigner teach them what they should normally be aware of. Show them the old article, which by the way did not required 4 extensions of izin kunjungan but 4 months of stay, and the new article. Be polite and cool and your application will go through.

                Comment

                • beebop
                  Member
                  • Nov 2008
                  • 1008

                  #38
                  Originally posted by atlantis View Post
                  18[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]. The foreigner has to go to his Kantor Lurah to get a Surat keterengan domisili stating his formal address in Indonesia and he should bring this letter to his Catatan Sipil to get a SKTT (Surat Keterangan Tempat Tinggal), a SKPPS (surat keterengan pendaftaran penduduk sementara) and a SKDLN (Surat Keterengan Datang dari Luar Negeri). A foreigner staying on a KITAS MUST register at the Capil for the above documents. It will help smothen a KITAP procedure later. In fact, chances are that the CaPil compil the three documents and issue a nice greenish card attesting your residency and registration as a temporary resident for the length of the KITAS. Fees for it are defined by Peraturan Daerah and varies depending on each kota/kabupaten. It shouldn't cost more than IDR 150K.[/FONT][/COLOR]
                  [COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Be careful you have 14 days to do so after the date of issuance of the KITAS (Pasal 20, undang undang 23 tahun 2006 tentang Administrasi Kependudukan) to register. Failure to do so in time would expose you to a fine of a maximum of IDR 2.000K (Pasal 89, undang undang 23 tahun 2006 tentang Administrasi Kependudukan).[/FONT][/COLOR]
                  [B][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana
                  I tried to get this step done today but it seems that things have changed or im really running around like a lost fart.

                  First of all the capil told us that the letter from the lurah is not needed which makes me pissed because it took half a day to get done. The second thing they told us is that SKPPS does not exist anymore and has been replaced by KIP (kartu ijin penduduk) which should be done at immigration but can also be done at capil. We paid 30,000 rupiah for it and got an official receipt and we can collect it next week. It looks like an id card.
                  The SKTT can then be processed only after receiving the KIP and is processed by the lura (not capil).
                  SKDLN does not exist anymore.
                  Well thats what they told me today. The whole process has changed or i have seriously gone in the wrong direction? I hope im not wrong because im gonna have to seek professional help to get anything done after this. My head is spinning.
                  Also step 18 should be done before step 17 because there is no need to have SKLD in order to get all of the above and also because of the 14 day time limit to get it done or you face paying a 5 million rupiah fine and not 2 million as stated. There is a big warning notice on the wall at the capil.

                  Comment

                  • atlantis
                    Banned
                    • Jul 2008
                    • 16594

                    #39
                    Originally posted by beebop View Post
                    I tried to get this step done today but it seems that things have changed or im really running around like a lost fart.

                    First of all the capil told us that the letter from the lurah is not needed which makes me pissed because it took half a day to get done. The second thing they told us is that SKPPS does not exist anymore and has been replaced by KIP (kartu ijin penduduk) which should be done at immigration but can also be done at capil. We paid 30,000 rupiah for it and got an official receipt and we can collect it next week. It looks like an id card.
                    The SKTT can then be processed only after receiving the KIP and is processed by the lura (not capil).
                    SKDLN does not exist anymore.
                    Well thats what they told me today. The whole process has changed or i have seriously gone in the wrong direction? I hope im not wrong because im gonna have to seek professional help to get anything done after this. My head is spinning.
                    Also step 18 should be done before step 17 because there is no need to have SKLD in order to get all of the above and also because of the 14 day time limit to get it done or you face paying a 5 million rupiah fine and not 2 million as stated. There is a big warning notice on the wall at the capil.
                    Beebop,
                    Things hasn't change. SKPPS, SKDLN and SKTT are all madatory by law (UU nomor 23 tahun 2006 tentang Administrasi Kependudukan). However, only the SKTT is of importance. The two others are just administrative steps performed by the CaPil before issuance of a SKTT. Administration of population is organised by the cities/regencies and procedures are elaborated in regional regulation (peraturan daerah), as I wrote you once. Peraturan daerah must however remain in the frame given by the law (Undang-Undang). The core text for it is the Undang-Undang nomor 23 tahun 2006 tentang administrasi kependudukan. It happens then that slight variations occur from place to place, be it in the procedure (you need this paper rather than this one, more or less pics...etc) or in the fees requested. But as I said these variations should remain in the frame of the law and the result should be always the same and more important comply with the law. An example: a IDR 5.000.000 fine is illegal. The article 89 of the Undang-Undang nomor 23 tahun 2006 stipulates that the fine is of a maximum of IDR 2.000.000 for a foreigner. Here is the correct article:

                    [FONT=Arial]Pasal 89[/FONT]
                    [FONT=Arial](1) Setiap Penduduk dikenai sanksi administratif berupa denda apabila melampaui batas waktu [/FONT][FONT=Arial]pelaporan Peristiwa Kependudukan dalam hal:[/FONT]
                    [FONT=Arial]a. pindah datang bagi Orang Asing yang memiliki Izin Tinggal Terbatas atau Orang Asing yang [/FONT][FONT=Arial]memiliki Izin Tinggal Tetap sebagaimana dimaksud dalam Pasal 17 ayat (3);[/FONT]
                    [FONT=Arial]b. pindah datang ke luar negeri bagi Penduduk Warga Negara Indonesia sebagaimana dimaksud [/FONT][FONT=Arial]dalam Pasal 18 ayat (3);[/FONT]
                    [FONT=Arial]c. pindah datang dari luar negeri bagi Penduduk Warga Negara Indonesia sebagaimana dimaksud [/FONT][FONT=Arial]dalam Pasal 19 ayat (1);[/FONT]
                    [FONT=Arial]d. pindah datang dari luar negeri bagi Orang Asing yang memiliki Izin Tinggal Terbatas [/FONT][FONT=Arial]sebagaimana dimaksud dalam Pasal 20 ayat (1):[/FONT]
                    [FONT=Arial]e. perubahan status Orang Asing yang memiliki Izin Tinggal Terbatas menjadi Orang Asing yang [/FONT][FONT=Arial]memiliki Izin Tinggal Tetap sebagaimana dimaksud dalam Pasal 21 ayat (1);[/FONT]
                    [FONT=Arial]f. pindah ke luar negeri bagi Orang Asing yang memiliki Izin Tinggal Terbatas atau Orang Asing [/FONT][FONT=Arial]yang memiliki Izin Tinggal Tetap sebagaimana dimaksud dalam Pasal 22 ayat (1);[/FONT]
                    [FONT=Arial]g. perubahan KK sebagaimana dimaksud dalam Pasal 62 ayat (2): atau[/FONT]
                    [FONT=Arial]h. perpanjangan KTP sebagaimana dimaksud dalam Pasal 63 ayat (4).[/FONT]
                    [FONT=Arial](2) Denda administratif sebagaimana dimaksud pada ayat (1) terhadap Penduduk Warga Negara [/FONT][FONT=Arial]Indonesia paling banyak Rp.1.000.000.00 (satu juta rupiah) dan Penduduk Orang Asing paling [/FONT][FONT=Arial]banyak Rp.2.000.000,00 (dua juta rupiah).[/FONT]
                    [FONT=Arial](3) Ketentuan lebih lanjut mengenai penetapan Benda administratif sebagaimana dimaksud pada ayat [/FONT][FONT=Arial](2) diatur dalam Peraturan Presiden .[/FONT]

                    Now about SKPPS and SKDLN,
                    SKPPS = Certificate of registration as a temporary resident/Surat Keterangan Pendaftaran Penduduk Sementara - they can decide to modify the name to be KIP if they want to do so... Result is the same: registering people as resident. They give you a card for it... Good. One more to be stored. KIP and SKPPS are the same...
                    SKDLN= Certificate of coming from a foreign country/Surat Keterangan Datang dari Luar Negeri

                    For these two, cards are rarely issued (I remenber I had one -SKPPS- a few years ago however) but the Catatan Sipil will automocally register you in the two relevant books. They are the first step of the issuance of a SKTT (which is a certificate of residence). Indeed, they could not issue you such certificate without having first registered you i) as coming from abroad and ii) as a temporary resident, couldn't they? In point 18, I wrote: "chances are that the CaPil compil the three documents and issue a nice greenish card attesting your residency and registration as a temporary resident for the length of the KITAS". The nice greenish card is the SKTT (at least when the CaPil has received the card, don't be alarmed if they only remit you an informal document... It happens sometimes...).
                    Cards are always more expensive than informal documents. The less card you have, the more money you have in your pocket as a general rule...
                    Just concentrate on the SKTT.
                    The SKTT should be issued by the CaPil directly or indirectly (in this case, as you noted, it seems to be the lurah which will deal with it) and should be signed by the Kepala Dinas Kependudukan dan Catatan Sipil.

                    You have to get used to it Beebop. things will never be exactly the same than on the paper in indonesia. It is sometimes a bit difficult at the beginning for people coming from more administrative countries to ajust. But ultimately you will. KIP or SKPPS, lurah or Capil, you will come accross a few variations in your journey through Indonesian administration, but at the end, you will find that these variations have no or almost no significance. Just remenber the two important things that are listed in point 17 & 18:
                    17. SKLD
                    18. SKTT

                    The only delay to really respect is the one for the SKLD (it is one of the reason I "rank" it before the SKTT. Police will try their best to look for trouble if someone is late to register. They are the "emergency", once a KITAS is issued. CaPil, to my knowledge, don't give a toss, even if one is 3 months late for a SKTT. The CaPil, if they would really comply with th law should ask you your SKLD (or the receipt of it if it is in process) because the SKTT that they deliver you is a recognition that you are administratively a resident living in the boundary of the city/regency, that you are administratively lengkap and that you complied with all your administrative obligations (Imigrasi with the KITAS and Police with the SKLD). If they want to issue a SKTT without having verified that you have both a KITAS and a SKLD, this is their "right"... but they miss the point of the whole function they have: administrating the population and compiling datas.

                    Just take it easy, and make sure you go out of any of the relevant administration with the three important document:
                    Imigrasi: KITAS
                    Police: SKLD
                    City/Regency: SKTT


                    The rest is secondary...

                    I hope I was complete in my explanations but if something is unclear, feel free to ask on the board.
                    Last edited by atlantis; 31-07-09, 07:58.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      [FONT=Calibri][COLOR=darkgreen]Hello everyone,[/COLOR][/FONT]
                      [FONT=Calibri][COLOR=darkgreen] [/COLOR][/FONT]
                      [FONT=Calibri][COLOR=darkgreen]I'm new to this Forum and am I glad I found it! I've spent the last couple of days browsing the forum and couldn't believe the amount of light shedding information I encountered.[/COLOR][/FONT]
                      [FONT=Calibri][COLOR=darkgreen][/COLOR] [/FONT]
                      [FONT=Calibri][COLOR=darkgreen]Atlantis: first of all thanks for all your time and energy you spend to provide us with all this valuable information![/COLOR][/FONT]
                      [FONT=Calibri][COLOR=darkgreen] [/COLOR][/FONT]
                      [COLOR=darkgreen][FONT=Calibri]Allow me a few questions on the '[/FONT][COLOR=#336633][FONT=Verdana]Keputusan DitJen' phase of obtaining a KITAS ikut istri.[/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR]
                      [FONT=Calibri][COLOR=darkgreen] [/COLOR][/FONT]
                      [COLOR=darkgreen][FONT=Calibri]From most posts discussing this issue I understood that I need to go to JKT myself to pick up the [/FONT][COLOR=#336633][FONT=Verdana]Keputusan DitJen for my KITAS (or send someone else holding a surat kuasa khusus from [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#336633][FONT=Verdana]me[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#336633][FONT=Verdana]), but one of your remark to Al.Gray in this thread (page 5, 31-01-09[/FONT][/COLOR][FONT=tahoma]) [/FONT][COLOR=#336633][FONT=Verdana]made me unsure about this:[/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR]
                      [FONT=Calibri][COLOR=darkgreen] [/COLOR][/FONT]
                      [FONT=Calibri][COLOR=darkgreen]Quote -[/COLOR][/FONT]
                      [COLOR=darkgreen][COLOR=#336633][FONT=Verdana]"...[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=black][FONT=verdana]you will have to go (better your wife, [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=black][FONT=verdana]they won't deal with you[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=black][FONT=verdana]) to pick it up...[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#336633][FONT=Verdana] [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=black][FONT=verdana]Alternatively your wife can sign a Surat Kuasa to anyone to pick it up...[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#336633][FONT=Verdana]"[/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR]
                      • [FONT=Verdana][COLOR=darkgreen]Unquote[/COLOR][/FONT]
                      [COLOR=#336633][FONT=Verdana][COLOR=darkgreen] [/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR]
                      [COLOR=#336633][FONT=Verdana][COLOR=darkgreen]1. I understand here now that it is to be preferred that my wife deals with the Sub-Direktorat Alih Status Keimigrasian because chances are I will be ignored by them. Is this right? [/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR]
                      [COLOR=#336633][FONT=Verdana][COLOR=darkgreen][/COLOR] [/FONT][/COLOR]
                      [COLOR=#336633][FONT=Verdana][COLOR=darkgreen]2. If so, and as apparantly she can sign a surat Kuasua to others, does my wife then need a "Surat Kuasa Khusus" from me? [/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR]
                      [COLOR=#336633][FONT=Verdana][COLOR=darkgreen][/COLOR] [/FONT][/COLOR]
                      [COLOR=#336633][FONT=Verdana][COLOR=darkgreen]3. If so, how/where to obtain this Surat Kuasa, do I need to go to a notaris in order to get a legal one, or are there other ways to produce it?[/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR]
                      [COLOR=#336633][FONT=Verdana][COLOR=darkgreen][/COLOR] [/FONT][/COLOR]
                      [COLOR=#336633][FONT=Verdana][COLOR=darkgreen]4. Do you have a template of this "Surat Kuasa Khusus" available?[/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR]
                      [COLOR=#336633][FONT=Verdana][COLOR=darkgreen] [/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR]
                      [COLOR=#336633][FONT=Verdana][COLOR=darkgreen]Almost last, if possible I would like to receive a copy of the law that deals with the (amended) mandatory 4 month waiting period that the KanIms so desparately cling on to.[/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR]
                      [COLOR=#336633][FONT=Verdana][COLOR=darkgreen] [/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR]
                      [COLOR=#336633][FONT=Verdana][COLOR=darkgreen]Last but not least, fighting or writing if my KanIm chooses to keep ignoring the amended article despite the fact that I hold a copy of the Law I so patiently try to 'teach' them? …uhmm, as my patience like my desired KITAS has batas, I prefer writing ;-) What would you do?[/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR]
                      [COLOR=#336633][FONT=Verdana][COLOR=darkgreen] [/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR]
                      [COLOR=#336633][FONT=Verdana][COLOR=darkgreen]Thanks in advance![/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR]
                      [COLOR=#336633][FONT=Verdana][COLOR=darkgreen] [/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR]
                      [FONT=Calibri][COLOR=darkgreen]Nescio.[/COLOR][/FONT]

                      Comment

                      • lelenk88
                        Member
                        • Aug 2009
                        • 12

                        #41
                        urgent & confused

                        Atlantis im so glad i found lotsa information regarding alih status VKSB to Kitas here and thanks to you.
                        My husband is VKSB holder and has been extended twice.
                        Actually, i had almost the same problem with al.gray.
                        I did everything in procedure n run smoothly in surabaya kanim & kanwil. However, even its lil bit too late for me when i found this forum n informations, But i hope i could get any suggestion from whoever in this forum who gone through it. Kindly help me..pls..
                        I also convinced to believe to send all the documents to Ditjen Imigrasi Jakarta by Tiki could take much longer than us going there in person (this information is from Kanwil officer&kepala kanwil). Alternativey, both kanwil n kanim confirmed that i could ask friend to hand in the letter with surat kuasa bermaterai if me n my husband can't come personally.
                        After a week, i decided to ask friend in jkt to hand in the letter, after several hours waiting, my friend got rejected by the officer with several reasons:
                        1. My husband "must" come personally
                        2. The officer (i prefered not to mentioned his name in here) in the alih status department said he doesn;t have any right to accept the letter and i must call his superior to talk further about my husband's alih status to KITAS. The weird thing is he finally took the letter without giving any receipt except he just gave copy of kanwil's letter with his name n hp no.
                        And the problem getting complicated because my friend went back home with thought that is the receipt and fax to me.
                        I rang the officer, and explained my conditions that i couldnt go to jakarta at this point of time, i explained the rules and informations i get from local kanim n kanwil, and most importantly i do not want to bribe him!(i guess thats what he wanted me to call him for). But he straight answered me the same thing he answered my friend and ask me to wait his call to get his superior hp no again.
                        Atlantis please help me..
                        He had my original letter from kanwil, and without it do i have to repeat the same procedure once again?? and send by Tiki is better, dont u think???
                        What should i do to avoid such a corrupt officer and handle this matter?
                        Seems both ways also cant get it done.
                        If i report this to surabaya kanim, do you think would help?
                        please help me..

                        Comment

                        • atlantis
                          Banned
                          • Jul 2008
                          • 16594

                          #42
                          Originally posted by lelenk88 View Post
                          He had my original letter from kanwil, and without it do i have to repeat the same procedure once again?? and send by Tiki is better, dont u think???
                          What should i do to avoid such a corrupt officer and handle this matter?
                          Seems both ways also cant get it done.
                          If i report this to surabaya kanim, do you think would help?
                          please help me..
                          1. Try to telephone to the DitJenIm ((021) 5224658 ext 2521 - you have to call several time in order to have someone picking up the phone-, in order to find out if your husband's file is registered and if the Keputusan Direktur jenderal Imigrasi tentang Alih status Izin Kunjungan concerning your husband is ready. It will allow you to learn if the immigration officer has registered your letter from KanWil and if the procedure has started. When you call, don't mention the whole story. Just try to learn if the letter has been registered. Provide them the reference of the Surat Kanwil and the name of your husband. When you phone, ask and write the name of your interlocutor. It will ease further communications.
                          2. If the file is registered, then it's OK. You don't have to stress and you don't need to bother anymore with the prick who wants you to telephone him or his boss. You just have to keep monitoring the process by telephone every two/three days to know if the Keputusan Direktur Jenderal Imigrasi tentang Alih status Izin Kunjungan is ready. Chances are that you will have always the same person answering your call. Don't worry, after a couple of call he/she will be fed up to hear you nagging him/her and he/she will help expedite the process.
                          3. If it is already ready, then you have to act "fast". You have 30 days after the issuance of the Surat keputusan DitJenIm to complete the procedure. I advise you to either ask to your husband (especially if he speaks bahasa indonesia) to pick it up or to do it again with a Surat Kuasa bermeterai, which is a perfectly legal way to do it (see later in this post). However, if you are using a tiers person, you should pick someone who is able to rest his case and argue the fact that a Surat Kuasa Bermeterai authorises him/her to pick up any documents on your behalf or on behalf of your husband.
                          4. When you and your husband will have the Keputusan DitJenIm in hand, fax (021- 52962095) a letter to Bpk Soepriatna Anwar, SH, MH, Kasubdit Alih Status Keimigrasian to formulate a light complaint, naming the prick that ask you to telephone him and/or his boss, that he refused on the first place to take the letter brought by a person having a Surat Kuasa from you, that he asked that your husband comes personally..etc. Give as many details as possible in your letter (reference of the documents, dates, names..etc) and join a copy of the Surat Kuasa you gave. Don't make any accusation or don't assume anything (bribes) that you can not prove. Stick to the facts. Next year, believe me, the prick will stay away from your files.


                          Now, if you find out that your husband's file (Surat kanWil)is registered nowhere, go straight to point number 4 and formulate a formal complaint (still to Bpk Soepriatna Anwar, SH, MH, Kasubdit Alih Status Keimigrasian) giving all details such as:
                          - Reference of the Surat KanWil
                          - Date it has been submitted
                          - Name of the recipient
                          - Copy of the letter kanwil where the prick put his name and phone number
                          - Point out the fact that you are pregnant, soon to give birth and that obviously you can not come to pick up the letter nor your husband can leave you alone. It is a shame for an Indonesian administration to deal with its citizen this way, with such a lack of basic humanity.
                          And telephone everyday to monitor it.


                          About Tiki: the reason why I advise to use them to send the documents to the DitJenIm is that it is fast (2/3 days), reliable (you have receipt and you can trace the letter)... and it allows you to avoid all the calo. When the letter arrives in the DitJenIm it is immediately registered, leaving no chance to any prick such as you are dealing with to try to play a silly game. I am afraid that the KanIm advise to avoid Tiki is not a good one, and to be really honest, I suspect that they had an agenda by advising you to avoid them. They perfectly know that tiki leaves no chance to their bosses to ask for bribes and they know that if you go there by yourself, it would leave plenty of occasion to their boss to try to milk you. They also know that going from Surabaya to Jakarta and staying overnight just to give one letter has a cost. Therefore by pushing you toward this solution, they also know that you would be more receptive to a proposition of "help" from them (read: "gimme money, I'll take care of it for ya"). Tiki and Internet are a huge concern for the average corrupted Pejabat Imigrasi. The former reduces the costs while the latter provides a wealth of informations.

                          About Surat Kuasa: Here is an excerpt of the Petunjuk Pelaksanaan DirJenIm nomor F-310.IZ.01.10 tahun 1995 tentang tata cara alih status keimigrasian:
                          "[COLOR=black][FONT=EMCKJO+TrebuchetMS][FONT=Verdana][SIZE=2]Permintaan alih status Izin Kunjungan diajukan oleh orang asing yang bersangkutan dan sponsornya atau kuasanya[/SIZE][/FONT]..." *[/FONT][/COLOR]
                          [COLOR=black][FONT=EMCKJO+TrebuchetMS][FONT=Verdana][SIZE=2]The possibility to use a kuasa is remenbered in most immigration text. Maybe that the immigration officer that told that a kuasa could not be used should stick his nose in his law books rather than in your papers.[/SIZE][/FONT][/FONT][/COLOR]

                          Keep us posted. Hope the above will help you.


                          * to be found in Paragraph III, huruf B, huruf b, angka 1, huruf a.
                          Last edited by atlantis; 17-08-09, 21:59.

                          Comment

                          • atlantis
                            Banned
                            • Jul 2008
                            • 16594

                            #43
                            [COLOR=black]
                            Originally posted by Nescio View Post
                            I've spent the last couple of days browsing the forum and couldn't believe the amount of light shedding information I encountered.
                            [/COLOR]
                            Originally posted by Nescio View Post
                            [COLOR=black]Atlantis: first of all thanks for all your time and energy you spend to provide us with all this valuable information![/COLOR]
                            [COLOR=black]Thanks... The above comments made my day... [/COLOR]
                            Originally posted by Nescio View Post
                            [COLOR=black]From most posts discussing this issue I understood that I need to go to JKT myself to pick up the Keputusan DitJen for my KITAS (or send someone else holding a surat kuasa khusus from me), but one of your remark to Al.Gray in this thread (page 5, 31-01-09) made me unsure about this:[/COLOR]
                            The law authorises, you, your wife or a kuasa to start the procedure and/or to pick up any documents. That's a fact.
                            However, by experience, I know that many immigration officer would deny it and say that only an indonesian sponsor can do it. It is plain wrong, but if one think about it, it is easy to find the reason why they say so:

                            Case 1. The foreigner is the one dealing with them.
                            If the foreigner is dealing with them directly, and do not speak bahasa indonesia, he can not answer to any questions they may ask and have the right and duty to ask (How are you living here, what are you doing here...)
                            If the foreigner is dealing with them directly, do or do not speak bahasa Indonesia, they may be unconfortable to directly request money. The foreigner may not understand what they are talking about or could well answer in a very harsh manner, which is culturally shocking for them. On top of that, there is a legal and administrative risk for them. They are totally aware that our reactions are different from the one of an Indonesian. We are used to make noise when bothered and they are not confortable with it.

                            Case 2. The wife (indonesian sponsor) is the one dealing with them.
                            If she is the one dealing with them, then no problems of communication. On top of that, they feel definitively more confortable to ask for money, because they know that culturally, she wouldn't make a scandal... At least, in most of the cases, not in the same way than we, foreigners, would do. They can also be tricky (threats, nasty comments, machist attitude...etc) since they know that there is few chances that she officially complains, still because of cultural reasons.

                            Easy to see what is their preferences in between both choices. Personally, here is the way I deal with it.

                            To initiate a procedure, I go along with my wife. I fully explain her the law and the procedure and we talk a lot about it before. Attitude to adopt, things to say, at what point should I step in...etc. It often looks like a preparation to an interview. Hopefully, she now knows pretty much as well as me how it works. She is doing the talking while I shut up, stand and smile. If we are facing a friendly and competent pejabat/petugas, I remain cool, smiling and joking. However, if something remains unclear a bit too long for the pejabat/petugas, or if I have the feeling that he/she has not fully understood the meaning of sesuai peraturan, I then step in, shift to high speed and do the talkings myself. However I always remain polite and not too confrontational. At least at the beginning. Usually it gives fair results quickly and only in rare case it gets heated.
                            When I start a procedure, I try to bring with me any possible document one may requests, officially needed or not for the procedure I want to deal with (airlines ticket, bank statement, copies of passport and KITAS, akta perkwinan, kartu keluarga, SKTT, SKLD, NPWP, vaccination book of my dogs, recipes for cocktails...etc). The goal is to let no chance to ask for a paper that you haven't bring and to ask you to come back tomorrow. This "come back tomorrow with this paper" is a very common trick to get rid of an applicant who is not willing to enter the dirty game some like to play. They've rarely asked me to produce more than half of the documents I brought, but at least I have them ready, if they request to see them. But I know that if you show that you are prepared and if they realise it, they would loose the grip and the procedure should be smooth. If they are into the money (bribes), they usually want it fast. If they see that it's not gonna be fast, they often won't bother and just leave you alone.

                            When the procedure is already started, I deal with the rest of it mainly alone. This for three reasons.
                            The first one is that I want to avoid to my wife to waste her time in an administration waiting for a stupid set of documents. I usually just go there with my motorbike, ask for what I came for and if not ready just go back home and drop in the day after. I never wait.
                            The second is that I have fair command of bahasa indonesia and am fluent with my local dialek. It helps me a lot to deal with the procedure efficiently and the use of bahasa manado is undoubtedly a huge advantage: it makes me look sympathetic to any manadonese, even when I complain.
                            The third reason is that, should a petugas/pejabat try to mess with the documents, at this point of the procedure, I like to deal with it the "western way": sharp, straight to the point and somewhat crude. I know my wife wouldn't feel culturally confortable with it, and I wouldn't feel confortable knowing that she is unconfortable. Therefore I prefer to deal with it alone.

                            However this is a personal method, and I believe that anyone should find his/her own way to go through it. The important thing is to know the law and the procedure. The rest are details.

                            Originally posted by Nescio View Post
                            [COLOR=black]3. If so, how/where to obtain this Surat Kuasa, do I need to go to a notaris in order to get a legal one, or are there other ways to produce it?[/COLOR]
                            [COLOR=black]4. Do you have a template of this "Surat Kuasa Khusus" available?[/COLOR]
                            No need to be notarised. I will try to post the one I wrote and am use to submit (I always submit it, but to be honest, it has never been requested nor considered when I was picking up any of my documents. However it has always been requested when I've picked up documents for friends)

                            Originally posted by Nescio View Post
                            [COLOR=black]Almost last, if possible I would like to receive a copy of the law that deals with the (amended) mandatory 4 month waiting period that the KanIms so desparately cling on to.[/COLOR]
                            [COLOR=black]Peraturan Pemerintah nomor 32 tahun 1994 which is the general governmental regulation about visa, including the old article 48.[/COLOR]
                            [COLOR=black]The amendment is found in the Peraturan Pemerintah nomor 38 tahun 2005. Print both of them and make a consolidation.[/COLOR]

                            Originally posted by Nescio View Post
                            [COLOR=black]Last but not least, fighting or writing if my KanIm chooses to keep ignoring the amended article despite the fact that I hold a copy of the Law I so patiently try to 'teach' them? …uhmm, as my patience like my desired KITAS has batas, I prefer writing ;-) What would you do?[/COLOR]
                            Talk to the boss (at least the kepala seksi or kepala sub-seksi). Print the law found in the links, give him. Just point at the amendment found in the second link without commenting it. It will make it.
                            Last edited by atlantis; 17-08-09, 12:11.

                            Comment

                            • lelenk88
                              Member
                              • Aug 2009
                              • 12

                              #44
                              sighs...

                              Hi Atlantis,

                              We tried to call Jakarta DitJenim 20 times, still nobody answer.
                              And then i rang surabaya imigration (without mention the whole story), i asked her what is the procedure if for example the letter is lost/or cannot be traced,should i repeat the procedure from kanim again..- she just simply answer "I DON'T KNOW"
                              She suggesting me to call 021-108 to get DitJennim ph.no and ask bagian alih status.

                              OMG... vomit blood... and i can't imagine i still have to deal with them for the rest of my life due to cross culture marriage.

                              Atlantis, if i fax the light complaint today to Bapak Supriatna anwar, don't you think the liltle chances of the letter to reach at his hand? Im not very sure if he can help.. due to the whole currupt system.

                              I read lotsa article from KPC Melati center, and used to found their name Bapak cecep and bapak hari marsono as a sources of alih status keimigrasian. But Im not very sure if he can help.. due to the whole currupt system.

                              Comment

                              • atlantis
                                Banned
                                • Jul 2008
                                • 16594

                                #45
                                Originally posted by lelenk88 View Post
                                We tried to call Jakarta DitJenim 20 times, still nobody answer.
                                As I told you, you have to call them several time before that someone decide to answer. Try extension 2521 or 2514 (though you have better chance with the former). Try again tomorrow. Remenber that yesterday was 17 Agustus and in a few days Ramadan will start. They are not overactive at their normal pace, so you can imagine that they are not gonna be excessively zeleous in between two important events such as those one.
                                Originally posted by lelenk88 View Post
                                She suggesting me to call 021-108 to get DitJennim ph.no and ask bagian alih status.
                                The phone number I gave you is the one of the DitJenIm and the extension is the one of the bagian alih status keimigrasian.
                                Originally posted by lelenk88 View Post
                                Atlantis, if I fax the light complaint today to Bapak Supriatna anwar, don't you think the liltle chances of the letter to reach at his hand? Im not very sure if he can help.. due to the whole currupt system.
                                I've never had a letter lost by the DitJenIm but it often took me one, two, several days before any people answered the phone in the sub-direktorat alih status! You have to be bloody patient and keep on insisting.
                                Originally posted by lelenk88 View Post
                                I read lotsa article from KPC Melati center, and used to found their name Bapak cecep and bapak hari marsono as a sources of alih status keimigrasian. But Im not very sure if he can help.. due to the whole currupt system.
                                Bapak Agastya Hari Marsono is Direktur Izin Tinggal dan Status Keimigrasian. He is a bit too high-ranking to be bothered. Hierarchically he is not far from the DirJen. Bapak Cecep is indeed Bapak Cecep Supriatna Anwar (his full name). He is the actual Kasubdit Alih Status Keimigrasian, the one overlooking the whole sub-direktorat alih status. Though he won't deal with the matter himself, he is the you will put as a recipient of your letter, but not before that you have found out if the Surat KanWil is lost or not. If it is not lost, and you say that it is, you are loosing credibility.

                                FYI, Bapak Cecep Supriatna Anwar is also the former Kepala Humas (Hubungan Masyarakat/Public relations) of the Direktorat Jenderal Imigrasi, before being promoted to the rank of Kasubdit Alih Status. One can imagine that he is used to hear complaints about Imigrasi...
                                Last edited by atlantis; 02-05-12, 05:20.

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