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  • Originally posted by KanpieBatam View Post
    3. KUA and Kantor Lurah was IDR 100,000 and for Catatan Sipil we're still waiting the news, but according to Petugas it is between IDR 650,000 to 1,200,000.
    I can already tell you that I am almost certain that these fees are not legal. Batam, like Manado, is one of these places where foreigner's money is well appreciated by the local government and therefore where fees tend to be on the high scale, but I've never seen any place in Indonesia where fees for a simple Surat Keterengan was as high as IDR 650.000. If you ask for a receipt, the fee will decrease drastically.
    I have the Peraturan Daerah Kota Batam which is relevant and could email it to you if needed.

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    • Originally posted by atlantis View Post
      I can already tell you that I am almost certain that these fees are not legal. Batam, like Manado, is one of these places where foreigner's money is well appreciated by the local government and therefore where fees tend to be on the high scale, but I've never seen any place in Indonesia where fees for a simple Surat Keterengan was as high as IDR 650.000. If you ask for a receipt, the fee will decrease drastically.
      I have the Peraturan Daerah Kota Batam which is relevant and could email it to you if needed.
      Thank you for your reply Atlantis. Is there anyway we can get an original copie of the Peraturan Daerah Kota Batam ?

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      • Originally posted by atlantis View Post
        If you ask for a receipt, the fee will decrease drastically.
        I have the Peraturan Daerah Kota Batam which is relevant and could email it to you if needed.
        Hi Atlantis, I just talked to my wife and she said government officer would NOT accept to give her a receipt at any point in time on request (RT, RW, KUA etc.)

        Is there any local rules about that to put them back on their oath regarding those receipt so they abide to it?

        My wife said she paid Surat Keterangan pindah from RT/RW IDR 50,000 each.
        Last edited by KanpieBatam; 10-04-12, 13:17. Reason: typo

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        • Regarding bank account funds for a Kitas extension:

          Is it a requirement to have a minimum amount in the bank account of the sponsor in the case of an Indonesian Wife sponsoring?

          My wife currently have about 1 juta in her account... should I transfer some funds to her?

          Comment


          • Originally posted by KanpieBatam View Post
            My wife said she paid Surat Keterangan pindah from RT/RW IDR 50,000 each.
            Surat keterengan Pindah in Batam should be charged IDR 100.000 as per Perda Kota Batam nomor 8 tahun 2009. It's a one payment which should go in the kas daerah. The attitude of the RT/RW shows that they've embezzled the fee paid (they're not supposed to share IDR 50.000 each).

            I've emailed you the Perda.

            For your information, my wife was telling me the same about getting a receipt years ago. I've proven her that if you ask firmly, you get a receipt and the law respected. Of course, they don't like it and they tried to refuse. I only asked politely once. The second request never has the same tone. It took me a few letters to get them understand that messing with our rigths was not a solution that I was ready to accept. Now, when we go to any administration we get what we should get.

            A funny anecdote: I had to go to the Polsek earlier this morning concerning a case that I follow. A guy owing us money. I know that the chief of the unit is dying to ask for money to my wife and he knows that I will refuse categorically. I asked my wife to sms him to tell him that she was coming. The answer of the Kanit was "does your husband come along?". I asked my wife to give me her Hp and answered in manadonese to Pak Kanit. "of course he will come. He said that he loves to talk to Pak Kanit...". Pak Kanit replied by a joke showing that he understood the underlying meaning. When we arrived, we talked, got the letter we needed signed by the Kanit and of course didn't pay. I know that if I wouldn't have been there it would have been way harder for my wife.

            No offense intended to your wife, kanpiebatam, but if you don't get involved, you will pay inflated fees for all the years to come and any document you intend to process. It isn't in indonesian culture to fight for rights and against the autorithy.

            My wife is terrorized each time I talk to any police officer. I talk openly with them and VERY directly. Basa basi has never been my religion. When the word "korupsi" has to be said, I say it, even if it doesn't please the recipient and even if he has tiga bunga sudut lima (Kombespol) for pangkat. Funnily enough, many of those who had hard time with me in the past became acquaintances that I have pleasure to meet. I wouldn't say friends though. But at least it shows that somewhere they know that I was right and they respect my stance.
            Last edited by atlantis; 10-04-12, 15:12.

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            • Originally posted by atlantis View Post
              [COLOR=#333333]It took me a few letters to get them understand that messing with our rigts was not a solution that I was ready to accept. Now, when we go to any administration we get what we should get. [/COLOR]
              Good anecdote indeed! I will get involve then.

              I got a question regarding these "letters". Do you have a sample of those letters? Where did you send them? I imagine they are some sort of Affidavit or Claim of Right...

              Cheers.

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              • Originally posted by KanpieBatam View Post
                Regarding bank account funds for a Kitas extension:

                Is it a requirement to have a minimum amount in the bank account of the sponsor in the case of an Indonesian Wife sponsoring?

                My wife currently have about 1 juta in her account... should I transfer some funds to her?
                I have the same doubt actually. Exactly how much minimum amount is required? My wife doesn't work currently so she has nothing in her account...
                Only the dead have seen the end of war

                Comment


                • Originally posted by KanpieBatam View Post
                  Do you have a sample of those letters? Where did you send them? I imagine they are some sort of Affidavit or Claim of Right...
                  They are just simple letters, stating the facts that I address to the kepala dinas, the kepala kantor, the walikota... etc. Most of the time I don't even have to send them. When I have a problem with a petugas, I just politely insist by telling him/her that I will have no other choice than reporting it. Sometimes, I just say: "OK, you don't want to issue me a receipt... Let's go to see yur boss, Pak KaDis (if it's the Catatan Sipil for example) and see what he says about it. Ibu/Bapak, you have to understand that this is the law, that I insist on it and that if needed I will write a letter not only to pak Kadis, but also to Pak Walikota (The Catatan Sipil's fees are retributions which are part of the APBD) and the Inspektorat Jenderal in Jakarta in Depdagri. Maybe it's better that you talk to Pak Kadis first. I can come back tomorrow, but I will get my receipt." All this said very politely and with a smile. Honestly, kanpieBtam. In my 12 years in Indonesia I said this kind of things more than a two hundred times in countless administrations I had to deal with. however, I can't recall more than 5 letters I had to write. Having them understand that I will really write if needed chilled them in most cases. If they know that you understand the law and if they see that you are documented about it, more than themselves, they will very quickly give up. So far I had to write 2 letters to the KanWil concerning Imigrasi, one to the biro hukum and walikota concerning Catatan Sipil, one to the Kapolda concerning the police and one to the gubernur concerning one his civil servant. If I am forced to write, believe me I follow the case. The 5 PNS or police officer who were involved got what they deserved.

                  The important thing is just to get well documented, to ask for explanations politely, then to argument your plea showing the documents you have gathered and if they are still obtuse... well... knock them down. They are begging for it.

                  This is the same for the procedure of ITK to ITAS. I don't prone us to be some sort of "know it all"... but if something is wrong, we should get the things back in their place.
                  Last edited by atlantis; 10-04-12, 16:31.

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                  • Concerning the Perda Batam and your email. If anyone would accuse me to produce a false document I would answer this way:

                    "let's go together to the police or to your boss. If it's a false one, I should be reported, jailed and deported. If I am right, I will ask your boss (and pak Walikota, Pak Bupati, Pak Menteri...etc) why a PNS who is supposed to enforce this law seem to be or pretend that he is unaware of it. Do you want us to try?". Again said politely and saying that you can come back the day after, letting them time to peruse the law and seek advise.

                    Again I guess you understand why I said that you have to be involved. I have the utmost respect for my wife, but I know she could not stand her ground the way I do, even if she has education and own her own business, being thefore more used to tense negociations than the average indonesian woman.

                    I never really get angry at them. I just make sure that they understand in my attitude and voice that I don't joke and that I know exactly what I am talking about. I often let my wife 2 minutes with them at the end of the convesration, though keeping close, acting as if I have a phone call or whatever. Time for her to quickly explain that we (read "foreigners") are different and that I won't let them alone if they mess. If they weren't aware that "we" are "differen"t, they usually get it at this point. That's funny because this is sometimes at this moment that some of them shows that they are definitively rotten. It's not rare that I hear in a whisper "Ok... bapak is like that... but maybe Ibu can give us some of her money". Pityfull.
                    Last edited by atlantis; 10-04-12, 17:09.

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                    • Atlantis, the point has still not been addressed as to what legal basis, if any, a marriage with KUA must be registered with Catatan Sipil or indeed with our Consulate.

                      I have the Surat Keterangan from the time of the marriage (just before such as N1 N2 N3 N4). This has not been broached as a significant subject on this Forum until flagged up by circumstances by Kanipie in last few days

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by KanpieBatam View Post
                        3. KUA and Kantor Lurah was IDR 100,000 and for Catatan Sipil we're still waiting the news, but according to Petugas it is between IDR 650,000 to 1,200,000.
                        In my case, letters need from RT, RW are free of charge, cause we already paid the keamanan every month in our housing complex and RT/RW should serve us. Lurah also free, my wife usually standby few Meterai if needed.
                        For Catatan Sipil you may bring a copy of Perda No.8 Tahun 2009 Penyelenggaraan Administrasi Kependudukan di Kota Batam http://skpd.batamkota.go.id/hukum/fi...ota-Batam1.pdf as atlantis mentioned. Show them the price listed. They should have the per-printed receipt with serial number.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by mrcibubur View Post
                          Atlantis, the point has still not been addressed as to what legal basis, if any, a marriage with KUA must be registered with Catatan Sipil or indeed with our Consulate.
                          The Immigration's duty is to investigate if your marriage is legla and if it doesn't infringe any law in Indonesia or in your own country. Therefore they are founded to require a registration/an acknowledgment from your consulate or even a registration to the CaPil even if you are already registered to the KUA. As long as they are requesting something which the Capil can issue, it isn't illegal. The KanIm and Kanwil have recieve directives from the Minister of Justice to investigate and to document their investigation. It's what they are doing.

                          Still it's far less that what the french embassy required from me just to register my own daughter in my kartu keluarga for example. It is sometimes interesting to consider what is asked to foreigners in our own countries, when they want to become permanent resident. What annoys me here is the constant expectations concerning bribes, not the procedures by themselves. In my country, bribes are not requested, but administrative procedures are way tougher than here I am afraid.
                          Last edited by atlantis; 11-04-12, 04:34.

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                          • Not only the bribes Atlantis but the constant backtracking to address simple issues and the lust for beurocracy here which gives me a job at the very least they probably would not have.

                            I do not disagree with you overall that a marriage from KUA should be registered with Catatan Sipil or indeed with the Consulate if it were permitted but this is just a total lack of clear information from anywhere, especially the officials in charge, which lead to this misinformation of the situation. Why on earth, having obtained Surat Keterangans from RT RW Lurah Lurah Kecat in contemplation of the marriage, and after careful scrutiny of all the documentation at KUA as if it was some sort of Court Case, are we as someone engaging in marriage at a marriage office NOT informed that we should register the marriage with Catatan Sipil AND go through all the same very same loops just to do that?

                            What i disagree with you about Atlantis is that KUA are acting in the same way as a civil registry office and conducting a legal marriage. If Catatan Sipil hold the power and authority as you suggest, then it should be KUA who effect the registration with them within a certain time frame such as 14 days and not the parties to the marriage. Something is amiss here in my mind about the situation.

                            Let us see what comes out in the 'wash' when I tackle Lurah Kua and Catsip about it. I have typed up this evening my own drafts of the letters in the formats required kindly provided in the thread by Kanpie. I shall say, here you are, type this please, copy and paste or something like that and I will wait a few minutes while you do it. Kantor Lurah at Nagrek, which is my Lurah in question, work with typewriters from World War II and have never heard of computers (though that may not be completely true with the coming of electronic identity cards). An imminent visit will reveal all, change or not.

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                            • Originally posted by mrcibubur View Post
                              [COLOR=#333333]Why on earth, having obtained Surat Keterangans from RT RW Lurah Lurah Kecat in contemplation of the marriage, and after careful scrutiny of all the documentation at KUA as if it was some sort of Court Case, are we as someone engaging in marriage at a marriage office NOT informed that we should register the marriage with Catatan Sipil AND go through all the same very same loops just to do that? [/COLOR]
                              I understand and share your disappointment, why would they do that? My opinion and according to what I know is that; a complete wedding registration and authentication use to be something that could be bribed not so long ago. In order to compensate for that lack of control over the corruption on the government's end + the embarrassment, we, as expat, are "almost" required to do the procedure twice. Which in the end, makes them quite happy as we have to control the document for them our self, with our money, as well as justifying bogus clerk jobs here and there that as you put it, would normally not be needed.

                              I also think that transportation revenues accounts for a lot in the equation...
                              Last edited by KanpieBatam; 10-04-12, 23:00. Reason: typo

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                              • Originally posted by divineelite View Post
                                I have the same doubt actually. Exactly how much minimum amount is required? My wife doesn't work currently so she has nothing in her account...
                                Completely ignored as always...
                                Only the dead have seen the end of war

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