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  • Marrying a pregnant Indonesian

    Hi,

    My question is this: I'm marrying a pregnant Indonesian girl next month and I will put my name on the birth certificate even though this child is not mine and the biological father is an American who abandoned her. Can I bring the baby to the US after birth since my name is on the birth certificate as the child's father? How long does it take? The mother will not be coming to the US for a while, but she wants the baby to be with my family after birth. Thanks!

  • #2
    I don't think it's legal, technically.

    You don't have to marry her, of course. You could fill out a form confirming you are the father with the US embassy, along with the birth abroad form. Costs $200 something.

    This would require you to support the child until 18, if in the US, of course.
    Sasa Bule is having a bayi!

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by David1070 View Post
      (1) ... Can I bring the baby to the US after birth since my name is on the birth certificate as the child's father?

      (2) How long does it take? ...

      (1) I guess you can (but maybe you cannot tell the authorities that the child is not yours) . I don't see why a father could not travel abroad with his child (it may need a permission letter from the mother) .

      (2) I guess , around 40 (?) days . If you want it quick , better start preparing your documents for the marriage (see links below) .

      What will be necessary (supposing marriage/child's birth in Indonesia) :
      - Get married before the child's birth
      - Birth certificate for the child
      - US passport for the child (supposing you are an US citizen)
      - Indonesian passport and/or Affidavit (dual citizenship statement) for the child


      -------------------------------------------------------------------------


      http://www.expat.or.id/info/gettingm...indonesia.html (about marriage)
      http://www.expat.or.id/info/prenuptialagreement.html (if buying a house in Indonesia is in you future's plan)

      http://www.expat.or.id/info///registeringbirth.html (birth registration)
      http://www.livinginindonesiaforum.or...y-registration (child's birth registration , step-by-step)
      http://www.livinginindonesiaforum.or...ship-Affidavit (need foreign passport for Affidavit)
      http://www.livinginindonesiaforum.or...Nationality%29 (details for child's passport)
      Last edited by marcus; 20-09-15, 09:56.

      Comment


      • #4
        Thank you for your help.

        Comment


        • #5
          I would be more worried about running afoul of American law. Sorry to be a downer, but you know you are biologically not the father and stating such when you know it is opposite sounds like it would be immigration fraud.

          You may want to consider hiring a family lawyer for the laws of the U.S.. This is from personal experience.

          I would look to have the biological father legally renounce all parental rights. I have seen more than a few do this when it means no child support. Then legally adopt the child.

          The risk of your child losing its citizenship and the lifetime of pain that could cause, is far outweighed by the discomfort of following the proper procedure now.

          I know it seems rare now, but after spending a lot of time in my life in the legal industry, I can think of a dozen scenarios were this blows up in everyone's face and you, the mother, and the child all suffer.

          Say the biological father becomes ill and wants the rights to his child. Maybe he becomes infertile, get cancer, gets family pressure to reproduce, or just changes his mind.

          Maybe he doesn't know he has a child and finds out later and does the math.

          Maybe the mother gets angry at you and in a custody dispute.

          Maybe there are genetic health issues from the biological father.

          The list can go on. Everyone always believes it is never going to happen to them, until it does.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by jukung11 View Post
            I would be more worried about running afoul of American law. Sorry to be a downer, but you know you are biologically not the father and stating such when you know it is opposite sounds like it would be immigration fraud.

            You may want to consider hiring a family lawyer for the laws of the U.S.. This is from personal experience.

            I would look to have the biological father legally renounce all parental rights. I have seen more than a few do this when it means no child support. Then legally adopt the child.

            The risk of your child losing its citizenship and the lifetime of pain that could cause, is far outweighed by the discomfort of following the proper procedure now.

            I know it seems rare now, but after spending a lot of time in my life in the legal industry, I can think of a dozen scenarios were this blows up in everyone's face and you, the mother, and the child all suffer.

            Say the biological father becomes ill and wants the rights to his child. Maybe he becomes infertile, get cancer, gets family pressure to reproduce, or just changes his mind.

            Maybe he doesn't know he has a child and finds out later and does the math.

            Maybe the mother gets angry at you and in a custody dispute.

            Maybe there are genetic health issues from the biological father.

            The list can go on. Everyone always believes it is never going to happen to them, until it does.
            I second this. At minimum this is fraud that can land everyone in serious hot soup.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by David1070 View Post
              ... The mother will not be coming to the US for a while, but she wants the baby to be with my family after birth. Thanks!

              Although I support your good (I hope) intentions , I don't like the idea that the child and mother will not be together for a too long time . So please make sure the mother knows that her visa for her to join you in US will take , maybe , a few years .


              Originally posted by jukung11 View Post
              (a) I would be more worried about running afoul of American law ... but you know you are biologically not the father and stating such when you know it is opposite sounds like it would be immigration fraud ...

              (b) Say the biological father becomes ill and wants the rights to his child ...

              (c) Maybe he doesn't know he has a child and finds out later and does the math.

              (d) Maybe the mother gets angry at you and in a custody dispute.

              (e) Maybe there are genetic health issues from the biological father ...

              First , be informed that I am not a lawyer .

              (a) Can you explain better where is the fraud ?
              If I am not mistaken , in Indonesia the child born after the marriage will be his legitimate son/daughter , regardless of anything else (see the related part of the Marriage Law below) .

              (b) In your opinion , what would be his rights ?
              In my opinion , first he should have the obligation to financially support the child (through the mother) . Maybe he may want to visit the child from time to time , not a big deal . Or demand his family name be in the child's name , not a big deal too .

              (c) Yes , the math would be to check if he has money enough to financially compensate David1070 & wife , in my view .

              (d) Normally the mother gets the child's custody in case of divorce . The situation here has not a big influence in the custody decision , I guess .

              (e) This is a risk we all have .


              -----------------------------


              Undang-undang Republik Indonesia Nomor 1 Tahun 1974
              Tentang Perkawinan

              KEDUDUKAN ANAK
              Pasal 42
              Anak yang sah adalah anak yang dilahirkan dalam atau sebagai akibat perkawinan yang sah.

              Article 42
              Legitimate child is a child born in or as a result of a legal marriage.

              Note : Translation at Google Translate
              Last edited by marcus; 23-09-15, 07:31.

              Comment


              • #8
                [COLOR=#333333] I'm marrying a pregnant Indonesian girl next month and I will put my name on the birth certificate even though this child is not mine and the biological father is an American who abandoned her[/COLOR]
                I don't want to sound negative here but..
                Are you sure the biological father abandoned the child?
                Experience tells, that sometimes the wife does not even want the real father to see the child, since the parents both can't stand each other.
                That being said, the real father wants to see the child growing up, which he has every right to. So find that out first.
                Have you spoken yourself to the biological father?

                If he agrees with that, then you should have no problems

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Jaime C View Post
                  I don't think it's legal, technically.

                  You don't have to marry her, of course. You could fill out a form confirming you are the father with the US embassy, along with the birth abroad form..
                  Ironically this could open him to serious problems in Indonesia, like a child abduction charge for example in the worse case. Marrying her prior to the birth is the only way to be, under Indonesian law, considered as the father and therefore to be able to leave the Indonesian territory, to have full father rights and to be able to leave Indonesia alone with the baby with all the proper document and without having much questions to answer.

                  let's see it with the worst angle possible. Without a marriage and with a similar case a kid would be considered as having no father and only the mother would have a civil relation with the kid. Let's imagine that things turn sour, the mother could feel a complaint for child abduction since in theory neither the real father nor the adoptive father have a civil relation with the kid under Indonesian law.

                  If he marries the mother before birth he will be considered as the de facto father, even though if later DNA test show that he isn't the biological father. If a kids is conceived or born during the course of a marriage the husband is the legal father no matter what any DNA test may say.

                  Under Indonesian law, without him (the adoptive father), posterior to the marriage, filling a complaint for adultery, he can not be stripped off of his father rights and duties. The biological father could not do anything (an adultery case can only be filled by the offended spouse). It may sound unfair, I am not judging. I just report how the Indonesian Law sees it.

                  Now this was about Indonesian law. I know very little about how the US law would see it.

                  To be honest it is a potentially a very tricky case which has to be carefully thought.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I meant under American law. He is an American. The biological father is an American. He will be immigrating with the child to America. He will be swearing under penalty of perjury to the federal government that this is his child, when in fact he is the step-parent. To get an American passport for the child to leave Indonesia, he will have to swear it is biologically his child, otherwise the child would be included with a K-1 visa and the child would have a greencard. It is highly likely immigration and citizenship fraud for the U.S.. I don't like the answer anymore than anyone else. A person willing to take responsibility for a child is a great thing, but that does not make fraud ok. The child could lose citizenship and be deported from the U.S. later in life. If the fiancé ever gets in a custody dispute, she could expose him to the federal government and use it as leverage to obtain custody of the child and the loss of his child later in life. There are a lot of bad potential outcomes. Do the right thing. Have the biological father renounce his parental rights and legally adopt the child.

                    Sorry I did not get to respond earlier marcus.
                    I meant the list as all examples of how this can blow up and expose the American immigration fraud. This is just my point of view for responses.
                    (a). U.S. law, not Indonesian. Citizenship is passed by birth. He will have to swear to the U.S. government this is his child, when he is the step-parent.
                    (b) According to the poster, the biological father, himself, and the mother will all be in America. The biological father has equal rights to the mother under American law. It is the 14th amendment to our constitution. If a judge were to find out the mother somehow hid the identity of the child or committed fraud, a judge could easily decide the biological father is the better parent to raise a child and have greater rights than the mother.
                    (c) I meant math as in if he didn't know he is a father and looked up on facebook in 5 years that the mother has a 4 year old child and subtracts and realizes he was having sex with her when the child was conceived.
                    (d) not anymore in the U.S., normally it is shared custody unless there are other factors.
                    (e) yes, but not all of us are hiding biological parentage. This is just another way that could expose that.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      This is an interesting legal question. Since Atlantis says that clearly under Indonesian law he will be the father (he says he will marry her and put name on BC - I assume it means he will marry her before she gives birth). I wonder how US law does treat this? If father and mother are married at the time of the birth of the child, does he really have to swear under penalty of perjury that he is the biological father or just that it is his "legal" child - and is that enough for the child to get citizenship? Put another way, is the citizenship determination really based on the biologcal result, or the legal result? It would seem an impossible task for anyone to be able to guarantee (under penalty of perjury) that the child is their biological offspring without in every case having a paternity test performed.......(let's be real, mother could have been fooling around on the side in any instance of birth). Is a paternity test a requirement for getting citizenship for children born outside the US to a non-citizen wife and American husband? I am quite sure there are clear answers to these questions, just not sure what they are.....

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by jukung11 View Post
                        (i) ... To get an American passport ... , he will have to swear it is biologically his child, ... It is highly likely immigration and citizenship fraud for the U.S ...

                        (ii) Do the right thing. Have ... and legally adopt the child.

                        (i) I made a quick search and didn't find the requirement of being the biological parent (see below) . Could you please post your reference about that ? (biological father would be required if out of wedlock's birth , see last reference below)

                        (ii) In my view , when in Indonesia , adoption would be applicable to this case if David1070 marries the mother after the child's birth . Marrying before the child's birth is equivalent to adopting when marrying after the child's birth . I suppose that in both cases the child becomes David1070's legitimate child .


                        --------------------------------------

                        from http://jakarta.usembassy.gov/us-serv...th-abroad.html (USA Embassy in Jakarta)

                        U.S. Department of State
                        INSTRUCTIONS
                        APPLICATION FOR CONSULAR REPORT OF BIRTH ABROAD OF A CITIZEN OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
                        .....
                        DOCUMENTS WE NEED TO SEE
                        When applying for a Consular Report of Birth Abroad for a child who has never been documented as a U.S. citizen, the documentary evidence listed below ...
                        1. Child's birth certificate.
                        2. Evidence of the parent(s)' U.S. citizenship and identity...
                        3. Evidence of the U.S. citizen parent(s)' physical presence or residence in the United States prior to the birth of the child...
                        4. Parents' marriage certificate, if applicable.
                        5. Evidence of the termination of any previous marriages of the parents ...
                        6. If a person other than a parent or the child is applying ...

                        -----------------------------

                        from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United...ationality_law

                        Birth abroad to one United States citizen

                        A person born on or after November 14, 1986, is a U.S. citizen if all of the following are true:

                        1) The person's parents were married at time of birth
                        2) One of the person's parents was a U.S. citizen when the person in question was born
                        3) The citizen parent lived at least five years in the United States before the child's birth
                        4) A minimum of two of these five years in the United States were after the citizen parent's 14th birthday.

                        -----------------------------

                        from http://www.nolo.com/legal-encycloped...e-present.html

                        Acquiring Citizenship If You Have One U.S. Citizen Parent
                        If you have only one U.S. citizen parent, and you were born between November 14, 1986 and the present, you will need to gather additional evidence to show USCIS that your parent was physically present in the United States for a longer period of time. In this case:
                        - your U.S. citizen parent must have been a U.S. resident for at least five years, with two of those years being after he or she reached the age of 14, and
                        - if you are asserting a claim to U.S. citizenship based on your father’s U.S. citizenship and you were born out of wedlock, you must have been legally legitimated before your 18th birthday and provide evidence that your father acknowledged paternity.
                        Last edited by marcus; 29-09-15, 00:02.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I can see your point of view. If he is listed as the "parent" under Indonesian law then he should be the "parent" under American law. That is not the case. If you read the instructions for the FS-240 the American has to appear in person or sign an affidavit swearing that the child is the American's "Biological" child.

                          http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/126018.pdf

                          That I am the biological parent of:
                          The original poster knowingly would be swearing under penalty of perjury to a false statement. The child would have to go through the normal visa/greencard process.

                          There are other statements and language that indicate that in the passport application and other applications. The child has to be "born to" an American citizen. Although Indonesian law views it differently, biologically the child is born to the biological parents (the other man and the mother).

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I found what I had read a long time ago. I was going off recollection in my first post. Then I did a little more research from what I remembered.

                            http://travel.state.gov/content/trav...echnology.html

                            The Department of State interprets the INA to require a U.S. citizen parent to have a biological connection to a child in order to transmit U.S. citizenship to the child at birth.
                            In order to transmit U.S. citizenship to a child born abroad, among other requirements, there must be a biological relationship between the child and a U.S. citizen parent or parents
                            http://travel.state.gov/content/trav...a-testing.html

                            Case closed.
                            Last edited by jukung11; 29-09-15, 02:25. Reason: links

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Marry a pregnant Indonesian even though you're not the father of the child ??? Am I going to be the first one to actually ask why the fuck would you do that ??

                              Comment

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