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Thread: corruption at immigration Bandung

  1. #1

    Default corruption at immigration Bandung

    To everyone,

    Today I found out that at the immigration office in Bandung at the jln Surapati corruption is rampant. I was arraging a Kitas visum and I was already quite far in the process. Also from a financial point of view, I decided to arrange it my self. But after trying that, I can not reccomend it to other people. They just let you wait and wait, and let you come for nothing to the office. Than you leave again with empthy hands. Athough a sign board on the entrance says "we dont receive agents", the only option is hiring your self an agent. For each contact with the officials the pay them 200.000 Bribe money. The whole proces for a Kitas wil cost you arround 5.000.000 with an agent. But I don't have money for an agent. And I hate paying corruption, (if all your documents are correct and you started the procedure in Time.)

    So I Guess I am going to take a long holliday to Europe, and see then on what kind of visa I will get back.

    Bye bye corruptors!
    Last edited by atlantis; 17-06-10 at 07:14. Reason: Settings

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    I've said it before and I'll say it again: To expect people to undergo a via crucis in the course of arranging essential documents is unrealistic, myopic and ultimately a flawed strategy in the battle against corruption. The main impetus must come from the top, not from the inconvenience and persistence of the consumer.

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    The Legend Continues Kratos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hombre de Maiz View Post
    I've said it before and I'll say it again: To expect people to undergo a via crucis in the course of arranging essential documents is unrealistic, myopic and ultimately a flawed strategy in the battle against corruption. The main impetus must come from the top, not from the inconvenience and persistence of the consumer.
    Utopia world is a far description if we talk about Indonesia.....

    You go to some Mangga besar spots, some of the stickers there said, ' no act of adultery allowed', but guess who listen and pay attention to that ? none....

    I used to say to other member here, that if you dont play same game here, you play clean here, you will get into trouble, same happen if you play the game. So whats the different ? I used to experience the same thing when A coffee drip on my passport and it causes the blur of official's signature. I was on OP shoes as well, waiting for nothing in 2 days, the third day, I called my friend who's father is a big guy at immigration head office. The father told me to hand in the phone to the nearby official that I saw that day. I did that, and my passport finishes the same day FREE OF CHARGE.....

    Want some funny idea?
    ask your local friends to dress up like one of the Trans TV reporters, complet with camera set and microphone. You come back to that immigration place, and ask your friend to come in 5 minutes later with a scene/ reporting topic, 'is our public offices are free of corruption", ask your friend to pretend he is interviewing the corrupt birocrats and you...

    Stupid as it is sound, you'll see the result right away, 200K.
    Last edited by Kratos; 16-06-10 at 18:27. Reason: missing one word

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    Super Moderator atlantis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kratos View Post
    Want some funny idea?
    ask your local friends to dress up like one of the Trans TV reporters, complet with camera set and microphone. You come back to that immigration place, and ask your friend to come in 5 minutes later with a scene/ reporting topic, 'is our public offices are free of corruption", ask your friend to pretend he is interviewing the corrupt birocrats and you...

    Stupid as it is sound, you'll see the result right away, 200K.
    Why would you bother to dress up like that for a bloody passport? My wife and kids all got their Paspor RI for the biaya resmi (ie IDR 200K for a the paspor, IDR 55K for the pics and IDR 15K for the sidik jari/fingerprints) without having to dress as clown.
    As per Hombre's post, the main impetus must come from the top, but if Indonesian would (really) try, they would help. The problem is that most are all too sure that they won't succeed in it, even before trying or that they just are afraid/not used to confront each others.
    I had to go through many administrative procedures in Indonesia. It certainly wasn't easy all the time but I can't recall getting in trouble because I've forced an asshole to respect my rights, or the rights of any family member, and to do his/her job. If I hear a foreigner complaining about struggling for a document, I may understand it. He/she may not speak the linguo. However, if I hear an Indonesian complaining about such simple things than a passport or SIM issuance, I won't tell you that I feel sorry for him/her. He/she certainly did not help himself/herself. Having your rights respected requires a bit of efforts that one should not be forced to do, if the country wasn't that corrupted, such as writting formal letters of complaint when a procedure seems abnormally slow or even blocked. But believe me, if you are used to work with an indonesian administration the word will spread fast that messing with you isn't a good idea.

    If you struggle for the renewal of your passport, give me a buzz. I'll hold your hand.
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    Quote Originally Posted by atlantis View Post
    Why would you bother to dress up like that for a bloody passport? My wife and kids all got their Paspor RI for the biaya resmi (ie IDR 200K for a the paspor, IDR 55K for the pics and IDR 15K for the sidik jari/fingerprints) without having to dress as clown.
    As per Hombre's post, the main impetus must come from the top, but if Indonesian would (really) try, they would help. The problem is that most are all too sure that they won't succeed in it, even before trying or that they just are afraid/not used to confront each others.
    I had to go through many administrative procedures in Indonesia. It certainly wasn't easy all the time but I can't recall getting in trouble because I've forced an asshole to respect my rights, or the rights of any family member, and to do his/her job. If I hear a foreigner complaining about struggling for a document, I may understand it. He/she may not speak the linguo. However, if I hear an Indonesian complaining about such simple things than a passport or SIM issuance, I won't tell you that I feel sorry for him/her. He/she certainly did not help himself/herself. Having your rights respected requires a bit of efforts that one should not be forced to do, if the country wasn't that corrupted, such as writting formal letters of complaint when a procedure seems abnormally slow or even blocked. But believe me, if you are used to work with an indonesian administration the word will spread fast that messing with you isn't a good idea.

    If you struggle for the renewal of your passport, give me a buzz. I'll hold your hand.
    I have never encountered such situation again, I have a new passport now, atlantis.....


    Creating a 'scene' of protest does makes an impact, I was writing the stupid idea so the OP wont get into deeper trouble. If you are foreigner, I'm just worry about OP if he demand for his right to be respected, the people there will play him even more. Even if they finally let them go. I've seen many funny things happen thats why, for KITAS procedure, maybe its much peaceful if OP retreat and having holiday at Europe. Hopefully this minor thing dont cause traumatic to OP to come to Indonesia again.

    Honestly, I still cant comprehend the reason why those immigration guys were doing such thing. It damage Indonesia's reputation badly, worldwide.....

    But, it still a beautiful country, isnt it?

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    Super Moderator atlantis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kratos View Post
    Creating a 'scene' of protest does makes an impact, I was writing the stupid idea so the OP wont get into deeper trouble. If you are foreigner, I'm just worry about OP if he demand for his right to be respected, the people there will play him even more. Even if they finally let them go. I've seen many funny things happen thats why, for KITAS procedure, maybe its much peaceful if OP retreat and having holiday at Europe. Hopefully this minor thing dont cause traumatic to OP to come to Indonesia again.
    Personally, I've never created a "scene" of protest. It would be definitively the last thing to do in my opinion. I am even surprised that you seem to suggest that it could be a possibility. It would for sure generate laughters from the Indonesian around. Nothing more.
    I had once a spat with a Kasi Wasdakim over an extension of my visa kunjungan. He did refuse it (It was the 4th extension) the day my wife was giving birth of my second son and stamped my passport leaving me 3 days to exit Indonesia. I did ask him if he was sure that is decision was motivated. He replies that he was sure. I left the KanIm, went to my house, took my laptop and typed one of the finest letter I've written in bahasa indonesia, motivating it with a few articles of law. I then went to the KanWil this time and asked to give the letter directly to the Kepala Bidang Imigrasi of the kanwil (he is in fact hierarchically on top of the kaKanIm who is himself obviously on top of the kasi wasdakim). I also asked to speak with him and said that I was ready to wait until he could give me 5 minutes of his time. After reading the letter, he asked me to enter his office. I did explained him the situation I was describing in the letter and that the kasi wasdakim, while interviewing me, by two times mentionned that his office was "hot" and that "someone" should offer him either a kulkas or an aircon... I did mention to the kepala bidang imigrasi that I was ready to exit Indonesia in the next three days, as per the stamp on my passport, but that I'll make a stop in Depkumham to drop copies of the letter to the Inspektorat Jenderal. The kepala bidang imigrasi took note and told me to go back home, that he will settle the matter and just ask me to drop by my KanIm the day after. It was 7 years ago and I wasn't sure about the effect it would have and didn't know what would happen in the KanIm. However, as soon as I stepped in, I understood I did the right thing to do. Jeez, at the minute I entered every petugas stopped talking and found themselves something to do. I went up to the office of the wasdakim. He was in total panick, apologised, took my pasport and came back in less than 20 minutes with all the required stamps and signature, cancelling his bloody stamp ordering me to leave in 3 days. I left the office without even paying the fees for the extension, meaning that he had to pay for me. For the past 7 years I rarely had any troubles in my KanIm anymore, be it for passport or for KITAS. I had to make two other complaining trips to the KanWil with similar letters of complaint, but if I look at the number of procedures I went through in the KanIm, for my family, friends or for myself, it is still a "low" percentage.
    My wife and I had to deal with Imigrasi, Disnaker, DisHub, Samsat, BPN, CaPil, KPP, Dinas tata kota, the police, the justice...etc and in many of them we had to write at a time or another a formal letter of complaint. Invariably it has modified our relation with them and the pace of work. Funnily enough, at the beginning the relation were a bit tense, but after a while things approved a lot and I enjoy very nice relations with most. I just let know that I know enough of the law not to need any "help" in the procedure and when I am sollicited for extra payment, I clearly refuse and say that I'll stick to the legal path. When things are abnormally long, I write.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kratos View Post
    But, it still a beautiful country, isnt it?
    A wonderful country that I love. Corruption is a disagreement but attitude of renunciation towards it are even worst in my opinion.
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    One doesn't necessarily have to protest or be overtly confrontational.

    Some years ago while driving near Taman Anggrek, I was stopped by a cop on a motorbike. He started with the usual request for license and STNK as a preamble to suggesting a generous donation to the fatherless policemens' fund. I quietly opened my briefcase, took out a pad and pen and started taking notes - date, location, officer's name (from his uniform) etc. He obviously noticed and asked me what I was doing. Ah, tulis aja. He pushed his hand through the window, insisted on shaking my hand, asked "Friends?" and waved me on.

    Maybe doing same at Immigration, if you're nervous of a confrontation, might help.

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    The Legend Continues Kratos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gratilla View Post
    One doesn't necessarily have to protest or be overtly confrontational.

    Some years ago while driving near Taman Anggrek, I was stopped by a cop on a motorbike. He started with the usual request for license and STNK as a preamble to suggesting a generous donation to the fatherless policemens' fund. I quietly opened my briefcase, took out a pad and pen and started taking notes - date, location, officer's name (from his uniform) etc. He obviously noticed and asked me what I was doing. Ah, tulis aja. He pushed his hand through the window, insisted on shaking my hand, asked "Friends?" and waved me on.

    Maybe doing same at Immigration, if you're nervous of a confrontation, might help.
    Yup, writing the name down is more straight forward than my stupid idea LOL....

    Quote Originally Posted by atlantis View Post
    Personally, I've never created a "scene" of protest. It would be definitively the last thing to do in my opinion. I am even surprised that you seem to suggest that it could be a possibility. It would for sure generate laughters from the Indonesian around. Nothing more.
    I had once a spat with a Kasi Wasdakim over an extension of my visa kunjungan. He did refuse it (It was the 4th extension) the day my wife was giving birth of my second son and stamped my passport leaving me 3 days to exit Indonesia. I did ask him if he was sure that is decision was motivated. He replies that he was sure. I left the KanIm, went to my house, took my laptop and typed one of the finest letter I've written in bahasa indonesia, motivating it with a few articles of law. I then went to the KanWil this time and asked to give the letter directly to the Kepala Bidang Imigrasi of the kanwil (he is in fact hierarchically on top of the kaKanIm who is himself obviously on top of the kasi wasdakim). I also asked to speak with him and said that I was ready to wait until he could give me 5 minutes of his time. After reading the letter, he asked me to enter his office. I did explained him the situation I was describing in the letter and that the kasi wasdakim, while interviewing me, by two times mentionned that his office was "hot" and that "someone" should offer him either a kulkas or an aircon... I did mention to the kepala bidang imigrasi that I was ready to exit Indonesia in the next three days, as per the stamp on my passport, but that I'll make a stop in Depkumham to drop copies of the letter to the Inspektorat Jenderal. The kepala bidang imigrasi took note and told me to go back home, that he will settle the matter and just ask me to drop by my KanIm the day after. It was 7 years ago and I wasn't sure about the effect it would have and didn't know what would happen in the KanIm. However, as soon as I stepped in, I understood I did the right thing to do. Jeez, at the minute I entered every petugas stopped talking and found themselves something to do. I went up to the office of the wasdakim. He was in total panick, apologised, took my pasport and came back in less than 20 minutes with all the required stamps and signature, cancelling his bloody stamp ordering me to leave in 3 days. I left the office without even paying the fees for the extension, meaning that he had to pay for me. For the past 7 years I rarely had any troubles in my KanIm anymore, be it for passport or for KITAS. I had to make two other complaining trips to the KanWil with similar letters of complaint, but if I look at the number of procedures I went through in the KanIm, for my family, friends or for myself, it is still a "low" percentage.
    My wife and I had to deal with Imigrasi, Disnaker, DisHub, Samsat, BPN, CaPil, KPP, Dinas tata kota, the police, the justice...etc and in many of them we had to write at a time or another a formal letter of complaint. Invariably it has modified our relation with them and the pace of work. Funnily enough, at the beginning the relation were a bit tense, but after a while things approved a lot and I enjoy very nice relations with most. I just let know that I know enough of the law not to need any "help" in the procedure and when I am sollicited for extra payment, I clearly refuse and say that I'll stick to the legal path. When things are abnormally long, I write.


    A wonderful country that I love. Corruption is a disagreement but attitude of renunciation towards it are even worst in my opinion.

    Ok Mod, no more stupid idea now....I can tell from your experience that you are quite a 'stubborn' foreigner, the type that I seldom meet till now.... given the fact that dealing with this official letters of things are not that complicated in your country, I'm quite surprise you do put up that determination attitude there in dealing with troublesome paperworks....you must be in love with your wife soo much....

    I used to be straight and stubborn in following normal procedural paths, but the efforts are exhausting...although you finally made friends with all of them, is that worth it ? I made up that stupid idea because Indonesia's bireaucrats are now afra publication and press spotlights. You can try, make fake CNN ID and have an interview with Kepala DInas of everything, for sure they can piss their pants if you caught them practicing bribery and corruption. Thats why the key is transparancy, blow up the names, issue, how they work, network as open as possible....

    I guess I'm off topic here, let me stop now...

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    Super Moderator atlantis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gratilla View Post
    One doesn't necessarily have to protest or be overtly confrontational.

    Some years ago while driving near Taman Anggrek, I was stopped by a cop on a motorbike. He started with the usual request for license and STNK as a preamble to suggesting a generous donation to the fatherless policemens' fund. I quietly opened my briefcase, took out a pad and pen and started taking notes - date, location, officer's name (from his uniform) etc. He obviously noticed and asked me what I was doing. Ah, tulis aja. He pushed his hand through the window, insisted on shaking my hand, asked "Friends?" and waved me on.

    Maybe doing same at Immigration, if you're nervous of a confrontation, might help.
    I believe that your example works fine with coppers (as long as one as done nothing wrong). Lalu lintas cops are under pressure and may get in trouble quite quickly if you indeed complain to the direktorat lalu lintas or even just pay a visit to the local kanit. They know that their hierarchy won't take any risk to cover their ass if one has doing nothing wrong and they will back off quickly if they have nothing (ie: STNK and SIM in order, no infraction commited) to back up their claim for money.
    When out of Manado, I usually just joke with them, avoiding any confrontation but clearly let them know where the limits are. I often drive on the jalan transulawesi where the roadblocks are quite numerous and always carry a copy of all my immigration document + a copy of my SKLD and SKTT. I keep a also a copy of the UU 22/2009 tentang lalu lintas handy (so far I had to show it only one time, not worth the paper used to print it!).
    In my opinion, the pad and the pen would also work fine in many administration with petugas of lower ranking who are easy to impress.
    Imigrasi have unfortunately seen hundreds of foreigners before and they are used to get the money easy and fast from them. Therefore I am afraid that they won't take very seriously the pad and the pen. Also, keep in mind that one of the thing that they learn at the AIM is not to be impressed by foreigners (which is normal if you consider what there normal mission is). They also have the full back up of their immediate hierachy (the kasi) and would feel protected from any blast. You may be right, but I believe that it comes to Imigrasi, you have to punch, and to punch high, not to only threaten them of punching.
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    The Mod is, no doubt, tenacious and principled, and he's hinted that he may become WNI later on. Most other expats, however, don't have the tenacity, principles, time, language skills, in-country time, knowledge of bureacracy and laws, or the same love of the country and plans to reside here for the rest of their lives as he does.

    For myself, I make reasonable attempts to follow the law. That is my first instinct, but I won't make make Odyssian efforts. Why? Because I am not so invested in the country. I am a foreigner, and I will always be a foreigner in the eyes of the Indonesians, no matter how long I stay here, no matter that I've married one of their own, no matter that I have a child who is ostensibly Indonesian. I am also not invested in the country because the limited rights extended to non-Indonesians by state. Finally, it is not a foregone conclusion that I will stay here for ever. You want me to give more of a damn, they'll have to give me a greater stake in the company. All of this is to show that one has to understand the motivations and the psychology of the expat, before enjoining them to go on Quixotic venture to accomplish what should be routine, simple transactions.
    Last edited by Hombre de Maiz; 16-06-10 at 21:55.

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