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Thread: Indonesian wife sponsored kitap and work permit

  1. #1

    Default Indonesian wife sponsored kitap and work permit

    Dear All,

    The amount and quality of information provided in this forum is incredible and to be highly commended. I would therefore be extremely grateful if any of you could inform me of the most recent position regarding the new Indonesian wife sponsored kitap. Is the system now up and running so that it can be processed at any immigration office (in my case Bogor), how much does it cost, and are you then allowed to work anywhere with it (any sector, and province)? Or do you have to obtain a work permit separately (from Depnaker?) and if so how difficult is that in view of recent legislation regarding age and qualifications?

    Thanks in advance
    Last edited by binels; 05-05-12 at 14:24.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by binels View Post
    (1) ...I would therefore be extremely grateful if any of you could inform me of the most recent position regarding the new Indonesian wife sponsored kitap.

    (2) Is the system now up and running so that it can be processed at any immigration office (in my case Bogor), how much does it cost,

    (3) and are you then allowed to work anywhere with it (any sector, and province)? Or do you have to obtain a work permit separately (from Depnaker?)

    (4) and if so how difficult is that in view of recent legislation regarding age and qualifications?
    (1) No revision of the immigration's regulation yet , but Atlantis says it will come very soon .

    (2) Even without this expected revision of the regulation , a KITAP sponsored by Indonesian spouse can be obtained after getting the second extension of a KITAS sponsored by Indonesian spouse . A KITAP cost Rp3055k (+folder ,..) .

    (3) Immigration says you can work with a KITAS or KITAP sponsored by Indonesian spouse , but Manpower officers say : not without a work permit . If you are eligible for a work permit , better get it , to be completely safe .

    http://www.livinginindonesiaforum.or...382#post245382 (see below a partial copy of Atlantis'post no.36)
    [..I have discussed with middle and high ranking pejabat in the immigration who told me: for us (read: immigration officer) you are authorized to work. The "for us" has importance. It means that as long as nakertrans does not chime in, immigration may not bother you. If your wife opens her own business, you have reasonnable chances to be ignored by nakertrans. Why? Because your wife has no chance to get an IMTA for you if it is a family business...]

    (4) I don't know much . Age over 55 or 60 may be a problem .

    http://www.expat.or.id/business/jobseekers.html

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by marcus View Post
    (1) No revision of the immigration's regulation yet , but Atlantis says it will come very soon .

    (2) Even without this expected revision of the regulation , a KITAP sponsored by Indonesian spouse can be obtained after getting the second extension of a KITAS sponsored by Indonesian spouse . A KITAP cost Rp3055k (+folder ,..) .

    (3) Immigration says you can work with a KITAS or KITAP sponsored by Indonesian spouse , but Manpower officers say : not without a work permit . If you are eligible for a work permit , better get it , to be completely safe .

    http://www.livinginindonesiaforum.or...382#post245382 (see below a partial copy of Atlantis'post no.36)
    [..I have discussed with middle and high ranking pejabat in the immigration who told me: for us (read: immigration officer) you are authorized to work. The "for us" has importance. It means that as long as nakertrans does not chime in, immigration may not bother you. If your wife opens her own business, you have reasonnable chances to be ignored by nakertrans. Why? Because your wife has no chance to get an IMTA for you if it is a family business...]

    (4) I don't know much . Age over 55 or 60 may be a problem .

    http://www.expat.or.id/business/jobseekers.html
    Dear Marcus,

    Thanks so much for your extremely useful info, but just one remaining question. Do you have to have a KITAS renewed twice from your wife or can you go from a company sponsored KITAS (extended at least twice) directly to a wife sponsored KITAP?

    Cheers

    John

  4. #4
    Super Moderator atlantis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by binels View Post
    Dear Marcus,

    Thanks so much for your extremely useful info, but just one remaining question. Do you have to have a KITAS renewed twice from your wife or can you go from a company sponsored KITAS (extended at least twice) directly to a wife sponsored KITAP?

    Cheers

    John
    With the current or with the old law one can NOT go from a company sponsored KITAS directly to a wife sponsored KITAP. The sponsor has to be the same if you want to convvert an ITAS in an ITAP. Therefore it means that you need first to either:
    - initate a procedure of change of sponsor (company to wife) on teh ITAS, then convert the new ITAS sponsored by the wife to an ITAP sponsored by the wife.
    - EPO the ITAS sponsored by the company, exit the country then seek a VITAS initiated by your wife as a sponsor.

    In the next two weeks, the new regulations concerning the UU 6/2011 will be publicized and socialized. We can hope for some clarifications. I would be surprised that drastic changes occur from the above. At least, the last draft I've read last month wasn't instauring any change.

    A friend of mine has been seeking information in a KanIm concerning an ITAS to ITAP conversion and was in the same case than you. He has been answered by a kepala seksi that he would have to wait 3 years on an ITAS sponsored by his wife before being able to convert it in an ITAP. It just show how incompetent they can be. The guy has misread the stipulations of article 60 and has wrongly applied the stipulation of paragraph 1 (which concern only applicants who are investors, clerics or expert workers) to his case, which should be addressed only with the stipulation of the paragraph 2. And the guy who told him this is the one in charge of the section which deals with immigration status in a KanIm!

    Article 60 UU 6/2011

    (1) Izin Tinggal Tetap bagi pemohon sebagaimana dimaksud dalam Pasal 54 ayat (1) huruf a diberikan setelah pemohon tinggal menetap selama 3 (tiga) tahun berturut-turut dan menandatangani Pernyataan Integrasi kepada pemerintah Republik Indonesia.
    (2) Untuk mendapatkan Izin Tinggal Tetap bagi pemohon sebagaimana dimaksud dalam Pasal 54 ayat (1) huruf b diberikan setelah usia perkawinannya mencapai 2 (dua) tahun dan menandatangani Pernyataan Integrasi kepada pemerintah Republik Indonesia.
    (3) Izin Tinggal Tetap bagi pemohon sebagaimana dimaksud dalam Pasal 54 ayat (1) huruf c dan huruf d dapat langsung diberikan.


    Article 54 UU 6/2011

    (1) Izin Tinggal Tetap dapat diberikan kepada:
    a. Orang Asing pemegang Izin Tinggal terbatas sebagai rohaniwan, pekerja, investor, dan lanjut usia;
    b. keluarga karena perkawinan campuran;
    c. suami, istri, dan/atau anak dari Orang Asing pemegang Izin Tinggal Tetap; dan
    d. Orang Asing eks warga negara Indonesia dan eks subjek anak berkewarganegaraan ganda Republik Indonesia.


    The two above articles mean that if you are married for more than 2 years, you are eligible for an ITAP without any conditions of minimum time as a resident being sponsored by your wife. You just need to have to have the proper ITAS sponsored by the wife and follow the procedure.
    Torang samua basudara

    Kami harus melakukan sesuai dengan persyaratan dan peraturan yang berlaku untuk Indonesia lebih baik.

    Please, only moderator related questions (and fun stuff) by PM. Kindly post law related questions to the public forum so that answers can help the whole community.

  5. #5

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    Bonjour Atlantis! Hope you're having a fine Sunday morning there in Manado

    According to pasal 60 ayat 3 (which refers to pasal 54 ayat 1 (c) and (d), an ex-WNI can get KITAP "langsung" (directly). What does "directly" mean in that context? Let's say an unmarried ex-WNI comes to Indonesia today, and he wants a KITAP tomorrow.......so he can apply directly just like that....? Really? Isn't it too good to be true?
    Do you know if there are any pre-requisites, such as the said ex-WNI's having to marry a WNI first, before he can "langsung" get a KITAP"?? (None of the pasals mention such a requirement though, but I may misunderstand).

    Cheers .

  6. #6
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    Like most members we're also waiting, almost with bated breath, the promised implementation of the UU2011. According to Atlantis this may occur as soon as tomorrow, so, prior to that implementation, we are just speculating.

    My wife is an ex WNI having taken Canadian Citizenship when we both immigrated there over 20 years ago.

    I'm a WNA and on a Retirement Visa in RI and, as she is not 55, I have to sponsor her on a Spousal Dependant Visa....how ironic. This is because Indonesia does not permit dual nationality. However, I recognize every country has its sovereign right to implement its own Immigration policies.

    Hopefully, the new law will amend this and she can get a direct Kitap and sponsor me as her dependant, also on a Kitap.
    Last edited by Davita; 06-05-12 at 11:27.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Davita View Post
    Like most members we're also waiting, almost with bated breath, the promised implementation of the UU2011. According to Atlantis this may occur as soon as tomorrow, so, prior to that implementation, we are just speculating.

    My wife is an ex WNI having taken Canadian Citizenship when we both immigrated there over 20 years ago.

    I'm a WNA and on a Retirement Visa in RI and, as she is not 55, I have to sponsor her on a Spousal Dependant Visa....how ironic. This is because Indonesia does not permit dual nationality. However, I recognize every country has its sovereign right to implement its own Immigration policies.

    Hopefully, the new law will amend this and she can get a direct Kitap and sponsor me as her dependant, also on a Kitap.
    Yes that's very ironic indeed Dave. If you could go back to the past, you would probably tell your wife to keep her Indonesian citizenship right? Things would be a lot simpler for you both nowadays...

    What are the advantages of KITAP over the retirement visa?

    (A bit off topic here: by the way I've always been curious, are governments around the world willing to deposit pensions to foreign bank accounts? Or is it better to let them deposit to a bank account in the foreigner's original country?)

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    Quote Originally Posted by atlantis View Post

    Article 60 UU 6/2011

    (1) Izin Tinggal Tetap bagi pemohon sebagaimana dimaksud dalam Pasal 54 ayat (1) huruf a diberikan setelah pemohon tinggal menetap selama 3 (tiga) tahun berturut-turut dan menandatangani Pernyataan Integrasi kepada pemerintah Republik Indonesia.
    (2) Untuk mendapatkan Izin Tinggal Tetap bagi pemohon sebagaimana dimaksud dalam Pasal 54 ayat (1) huruf b diberikan setelah usia perkawinannya mencapai 2 (dua) tahun dan menandatangani Pernyataan Integrasi kepada pemerintah Republik Indonesia.
    (3) Izin Tinggal Tetap bagi pemohon sebagaimana dimaksud dalam Pasal 54 ayat (1) huruf c dan huruf d dapat langsung diberikan.


    Article 54 UU 6/2011

    (1) Izin Tinggal Tetap dapat diberikan kepada:
    a. Orang Asing pemegang Izin Tinggal terbatas sebagai rohaniwan, pekerja, investor, dan lanjut usia;
    b. keluarga karena perkawinan campuran;
    c. suami, istri, dan/atau anak dari Orang Asing pemegang Izin Tinggal Tetap; dan
    d. Orang Asing eks warga negara Indonesia dan eks subjek anak berkewarganegaraan ganda Republik Indonesia.


    The two above articles mean that if you are married for more than 2 years, you are eligible for an ITAP without any conditions of minimum time as a resident being sponsored by your wife. You just need to have to have the proper ITAS sponsored by the wife and follow the procedure.
    It was impossible for us to have these article properly implemented at KanWil in march 2012. My wife printed a copy of the Undang-undang Article 54 UU 6/2011 and showed it to the officer. At first they doubted on the authenticity of the document because my wife only brought the page that contained that article.

    Then he instructed my wife to make the first KITAS extension because the KITAP was not possible for us according to Peraturan Pemerintah nomor 38 tahun 2005.

    Basically, for the application of the article it still refers to the year 2005 guide lines, being minimum 2 years KITAS sponsored by wife (As oppose to being MARRIED for more than 2 years).

    Based on the immigration officer information, UU 6/2011 DOESN'T HAVE PETUNJUK PELAKSANAAN, THIS IS THE REASON WHY THEY STILL REFER TO Peraturan Pemerintah nomor 38 tahun 2005.

    Both KanIm Batam and KanWil Tanjung Pinang seems to confirm this.

    http://www.northbali.info/living/kitas_kitap.pdf (page 7)
    However in 2005 a regulation (Peraturan Pemerintah nomor 38 tahun 2005) changed the
    alinea (2) of the article 49, which now reads :
    Bahasa Indonesia
    Pasal 49
    (2) Pengalihan status sebagaimana dimaksud pada ayat (1) dapat diberikan atas dasar permintaan
    orang asing yang bersangkutan, dengan syarat telah berada di wilayah Negara Republik Indonesia
    sekurang-kurangnya 2 (dua) tahun berturut-turut sejak tanggal diberikannya Izin Tinggal
    Terbatas.
    Translation:
    Article 49
    (2) The status change as meant in paragraph (1) shall be granted at the request of the relevant
    foreigners with the provision that they have already stayed in the territory of the Republic of
    Indonesia for at least two consecutive years starting from the issuance date of limited stay
    permits
    It has been further explained in the Surat Penjelasan accompanying the law with these terms:
    Ayat (2)
    " Yang dimaksud dengan telah berada di wilayah Negara Republik Indonesia sekurang-kurangnya
    2 (dua) tahun berturut-turut sejak diberikannya Izin Tinggal Terbatas adalah terhadap orang asing
    dengan memperhatikan aspek kemanfaatan orang asing tersebut bagi pembangunan nasional dan
    aspek kemanusiaan "
    It means that a KITAS will be converted in a KITAP, considering the participation of the foreigner
    in the national development and considering humanitarian aspects. A bit subjective...

    Any thoughts on that, Altlantis?
    Cheers.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by fandv View Post
    Yes that's very ironic indeed Dave. If you could go back to the past, you would probably tell your wife to keep her Indonesian citizenship right? Things would be a lot simpler for you both nowadays...

    What are the advantages of KITAP over the retirement visa?

    (A bit off topic here: by the way I've always been curious, are governments around the world willing to deposit pensions to foreign bank accounts? Or is it better to let them deposit to a bank account in the foreigner's original country?)
    1. Although it surely would make our life here in Indonesia easier if she had remained an RI Citizen I think our life in Canada, snowbirding in Arizona and travelling generally, would have been more difficult with her Indonesian Passport.

    2. A Retirement Visa must be sponsored by an authorized travel agent which allows them to extort/charge like a wounded elephant, and it only lasts a year. The Kitap can be done as a DIY cheaply, and lasts for 5 years.

    3. I have some pensions from UK and Canada. I have them deposited in my HSBC Premier Bank in those source countries. I also have HSBC Premier Account in Indonesia in GBP, CDN$ and IDR.
    I freely transfer using internet on HSBC Global View (A facility which shows HSBC world-wide accounts on one page) into those appropriate currency accounts in Jakarta, then, when convenient, approach my HSBC representative and get a 'Premier' currency rate of exchange.

    Works for me.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by atlantis View Post
    With the current or with the old law one can NOT go from a company sponsored KITAS directly to a wife sponsored KITAP. The sponsor has to be the same if you want to convvert an ITAS in an ITAP. Therefore it means that you need first to either:
    - initate a procedure of change of sponsor (company to wife) on teh ITAS, then convert the new ITAS sponsored by the wife to an ITAP sponsored by the wife.
    - EPO the ITAS sponsored by the company, exit the country then seek a VITAS initiated by your wife as a sponsor.

    In the next two weeks, the new regulations concerning the UU 6/2011 will be publicized and socialized. We can hope for some clarifications. I would be surprised that drastic changes occur from the above. At least, the last draft I've read last month wasn't instauring any change.

    A friend of mine has been seeking information in a KanIm concerning an ITAS to ITAP conversion and was in the same case than you. He has been answered by a kepala seksi that he would have to wait 3 years on an ITAS sponsored by his wife before being able to convert it in an ITAP. It just show how incompetent they can be. The guy has misread the stipulations of article 60 and has wrongly applied the stipulation of paragraph 1 (which concern only applicants who are investors, clerics or expert workers) to his case, which should be addressed only with the stipulation of the paragraph 2. And the guy who told him this is the one in charge of the section which deals with immigration status in a KanIm!

    Article 60 UU 6/2011

    (1) Izin Tinggal Tetap bagi pemohon sebagaimana dimaksud dalam Pasal 54 ayat (1) huruf a diberikan setelah pemohon tinggal menetap selama 3 (tiga) tahun berturut-turut dan menandatangani Pernyataan Integrasi kepada pemerintah Republik Indonesia.
    (2) Untuk mendapatkan Izin Tinggal Tetap bagi pemohon sebagaimana dimaksud dalam Pasal 54 ayat (1) huruf b diberikan setelah usia perkawinannya mencapai 2 (dua) tahun dan menandatangani Pernyataan Integrasi kepada pemerintah Republik Indonesia.
    (3) Izin Tinggal Tetap bagi pemohon sebagaimana dimaksud dalam Pasal 54 ayat (1) huruf c dan huruf d dapat langsung diberikan.


    Article 54 UU 6/2011

    (1) Izin Tinggal Tetap dapat diberikan kepada:
    a. Orang Asing pemegang Izin Tinggal terbatas sebagai rohaniwan, pekerja, investor, dan lanjut usia;
    b. keluarga karena perkawinan campuran;
    c. suami, istri, dan/atau anak dari Orang Asing pemegang Izin Tinggal Tetap; dan
    d. Orang Asing eks warga negara Indonesia dan eks subjek anak berkewarganegaraan ganda Republik Indonesia.


    The two above articles mean that if you are married for more than 2 years, you are eligible for an ITAP without any conditions of minimum time as a resident being sponsored by your wife. You just need to have to have the proper ITAS sponsored by the wife and follow the procedure.
    Atlantis Hi!

    The quality and depth of your posts are incredible, and I, along with many others I'm sure, would like to express my sincere gratitude to both you and Marcus for the great help you offer along the way. I guess we all need to wait a few more days to see exactly what immigration is offering and how they're socialising it.

    Once again, thanks so much

    John

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