WTF thread

[sherm]

Ricky: for matters like this (life threatening), I am a firm believer in kill or be killed. legal ramifications can come later, but I would rather that I (or any of my family or friends) live rather than the bad guy.

I don't know about indonesia or China but in the US, there have been many cases (through trials) of self defense that involved the deaths of the perpetrator.

Popular saying in the U.S. "Better to be judged by twelve than carried by six"

[tihzho]

This is a cluster WTF in America

The New York Times allowed an anti-Catholic ad regarding Catholic repression of women's Rights then rejects a similar ad about Islamic repression of women's rights and jihad (just for good measure).

Catholic faith forbids the use of contraception and abortion and ... well, have a look at the links

Both Ads and story here and here, better to open both.

An strong point was made, do you agree or not? Provocative stuff

[Nimbus]

This is a cluster WTF in AmericaThe New York Times allowed an anti-Catholic ad regarding Catholic repression of women's Rights then rejects a similar ad about Islamic repression of women's rights and jihad (just for good measure).Catholic faith forbids the use of contraception and abortion and ... well, have a look at the linksBoth Ads and story here and here, better to open both. An strong point was made, do you agree or not? Provocative stuff

Jihad Watch and Atlas Shrugs? I expect something like that from them.There's a fine line between outrage over the action of an elite few and smearing an entire religion from the beginning of time. If I were to write the anti-Catholic ad in the style of the anti-Islam ad, I would use the Inquisition, the Crusades, etc. The Catholic Church is an entity (and a very powerful one), and not comparable to "imams".

I think the anti-bishop ad went a little overboard, but Jihad Watch took a headlong running jump into the sea.

[tihzho]

Jihad Watch and Atlas Shrugs? I expect something like that from them.There's a fine line between outrage over the action of an elite few and smearing an entire religion from the beginning of time. If I were to write the anti-Catholic ad in the style of the anti-Islam ad, I would use the Inquisition, the Crusades, etc. The Catholic Church is an entity (and a very powerful one), and not comparable to "imams".

I think the anti-bishop ad went a little overboard, but Jihad Watch took a headlong running jump into the sea.

As I said WTF, the New Times DID run the anti Catholic ad though...that was first and the other was in response but was not run.

I agree, the Catholics certainly are not innocent, the crusades were one of the bloodiest times in history excluding this century. Additionally in contrast to the crusaders, Sultan Saladin...

His (Saladin) noble and chivalrous behavior was noted by Christian chroniclers, especially in the accounts of the Siege of Kerak, and despite being the nemesis of the Crusaders, he won the respect of many of them, including Richard the Lionheart; rather than becoming a hated figure in Europe, he became a celebrated example of the principles of chivalry


Saladin's relationship with Richard (the Lionheart) was one of chivalrous mutual respect as well as military rivalry. At Arsuf, when Richard lost his horse, Saladin sent him two replacements. Richard proposed that his sister, Joan of England, Queen of Sicily, should marry Saladin's brother and that Jerusalem could be their wedding gift.

Spanish Inquisition anyone??

As I also said Provocative stuff, ya?

[tihzho]

This is where stereotypes come from.

Top this one for stupidity!

[tihzho]

There seems to be no end in sight for Chinese counterfeiting

Chinese have moved to the next level of counterfeiting from products to entire companies! WTF!!??

Chinese authorities find 22 fake Apple stores

A total of 22 fake Apple stores have been uncovered in one Chinese city.
Authorities in Kunming began searching out the copycats after pictures of one convincing replica were circulated on the web.
An early search found five fake stores, two of which were shut down for trading without a licence.

BBC link

Another link

Many Indonesians would like to have IKEA open up in Jakarta, good quality home furnishings at reasonable prices all under one roof. China has a few IKEA shops, I shopped at the one in Shanghai. Chinese ever looking for something to copy went ahead and copied IKEA!

Knock-off Ikea store in China

Slide Show

Seems Kumming is the place for copy businesses WTF??

Be very careful when doing business in Mainland China, who knows what you are really getting?

[ricky_id]

Two stories to share:
1. The Chinese woo the Chinese overseas to come back to the "Motherland" to rebuild it to restore its pride. A Singaporean (as you know more than half of Sings are of Chinese descent) consortium, using the apparent advantages endowed by the PRC to those having Chinese blood, built an industrial park in the country, only to be copied and competed not far from the park before it gained break even. Rather than enduring losses, the Singaporeans came home to the "Foreigner" land.
2. A friend returning from Mandarin learning in the PRC told me about the approved existence of a university specialised on counterfeiting things.

[tihzho]

[Nimbus]

Two stories to share:
1. The Chinese woo the Chinese overseas to come back to the "Motherland" to rebuild it to restore its pride. A Singaporean (as you know more than half of Sings are of Chinese descent) consortium, using the apparent advantages endowed by the PRC to those having Chinese blood, built an industrial park in the country, only to be copied and competed not far from the park before it gained break even. Rather than enduring losses, the Singaporeans came home to the "Foreigner" land.
2. A friend returning from Mandarin learning in the PRC told me about the approved existence of a university specialised on counterfeiting things.

The owners of the company I work for are considering opening a plant in China. They have a mainlander on staff, and she told them the local partner is going to steal the technology. I told them that it's not a matter of "if", it's a matter of "when". They're still thinking about it because they are going to supply other American manufacturers in the PRC, with which they have ongoing relationships in the states. They figure US manufacturers in China are unlikely to buy from local copycats because they want to avoid quality nightmares. The raw material has to be certified to a certain set of specs, and nobody doubts that mainlanders are not beyond faking the paperwork.

[tihzho]

The owners of the company I work for are considering opening a plant in China. They have a mainlander on staff, and she told them the local partner is going to steal the technology. I told them that it's not a matter of "if", it's a matter of "when". They're still thinking about it because they are going to supply other American manufacturers in the PRC, with which they have ongoing relationships in the states. They figure US manufacturers in China are unlikely to buy from local copycats because they want to avoid quality nightmares. The raw material has to be certified to a certain set of specs, and nobody doubts that mainlanders are not beyond faking the paperwork.

Getting into a Joint Venture in China is not a good idea at all in my opinion. When push comes to shove China courts favour the Chinese company. There are so many tricks that Chinese use to get around any JV contact, there are plenty of horror stories about this. Manufacturing in China has slowed, and many factories are running at reduced output. Additionally there is a power shift occurring in Beijing at the moment, could be some interesting times for China very soon such as a recession, and I would not like to be there when it comes.

As far as your company assuming the US manufacturers in China not buying knockoffs of your products is naive to say the least. The knockoff company needs only to approach the Chinese buyer at the US manufacturer and pay a percentage of the purchase price to that person. This is how Chinese companies sell to other Chinese companies. Depending in how much money is involved the scam can go all the way up to the top, its off the books money after all. I've seen this all the time.

Chinese are very clever in hiding all the evidence and forging documents. For example, again from personal experience in China. One Chinese pigment manufacturer sells industrial pigment to European cosmetic manufacturers. How this works is one of the management staff at the Shanghai government testing and certification laboratory is paid cash $50 for each COA (Certificate Of Analysis). This person then tests the pigment but changes the results so as it conforms to what ever standard is required. The COA is printed out and officially stamped with the seal. The punch line is the COA normally costs $200, not $50! So not only is the pigment company getting a bargain, they are also selling much cheaper industrial pigment in place of the more expensive cosmetic grade.

Doesn't the European manufacturers test the pigments themselves? No, apparently not, because if they did they would find the pigments failing for heavy metal content and they would be forced to find another supplier which will be more expensive and also they would need to change their formulations which could impact hundreds of products. Its better they all do the wink wink nudge nudge and hope for the best.

I know this sounds incredible, but the rabbit hole goes very deep in China. How else can Chinese fake components end up in the US military aircraft ? Do you think your company or the US manufacturers your company supply are smarter than the US military?

Perhaps the best solution in my opinion is for your company to find a trustworthy partner in China to set up a trading company and export the goods from Indonesia to China. Better yet, get the US manufacturers to move to Indonesia which is better for everyone in the long run, yes??