Fear of Flying

[Pak Gondrong]

Sometimes if nothing else to do I like to have some turbulence, I really enjoy that falling feeling. Last time when I was having a long flight with Malaysian Airlines (they're still using this cargo planes for passenger, 5 row 1 tv, nothing to watch) somewhere around India I said my self "wish have some turbulence so I can enjoy" ...and it start immediately! Next 2 hours I regret my wish and wished "I wish some money or something more useful" so to be honest did I scared? Hell yeah! Did I panic? nope.

[Crusader]

Excellent thread started by JolieGal, I must say ! I always felt that I am the only one who is scared of flying and off late its been a little more as there is always a lot of clouds and finally turbulence near Bali and Surabaya. Surabaya landing is specially scary, something wrong with the wind there, landing is extremly turbulent.

Well, off late I analysed that somehow some fears are predominantly occupying my mind. After the recent series of earthquakes, I fear about earthquake at home and office. Recent air accidents and excessive turbulence in Indoensia skies make me fear flying and I certainly get a little distrubed sleep at night at my hotel in Bali, fearing tsunami, of-course, as its right on the beach and no escape seems possible.

The only way I have been able to bring these anxieties to rest is by telling myself or rather rediculing myself for fears and telling myself that there has to be some place where I can escape fear. While I am flying, I am shit scared and wish that the plane lands quickly so that I can quickly get home and then I can feel safe, but suddenly it reminds me that even at home I fear earthquakes and at hotel I fear Tsunami...then what the hell will make me feel safe beyond this particular flight ? The moment this thought comes to my mind, the reality dawns on me that its all about mind....mind tricks you into fearing the situation you are in and to counter it, you have to learn to trick the mind into believeing that all these things are out of your control. If you are destined to die in a plane crash, nothing can ever stop it and when the something goes wrong up in the skies, you can not do anything about it. Its rather better to sleep away your journey and let all this pass. Plug in ur ipod, tune in some cool music, close off your eyes and let yourself be oblivious about whatever is happening around...unless you are sitting in an exit row and you have to pay attention to when they shout EVACUATE EVACUATE........

I have also been watching some episodes of 'Aircrash Investigators' on Discovery and by what they say, it sounds that Air Planes are quiet safe now, still, they keep discovering something new with every crash.........but, the fact is that Air Industry is still in its early years and maturing.

I have a confession to make: I am terrified of flying. Up until 6 years ago, I was able to sleep soundly on long-haul flights. Nowadays, you would find me at the back with flight attendants. It started from flying across Russia in the middle of terrible blizzard and the plane felt like plunging before it leveled off. I began to get nervous and then became terrified after flying through a tropical storm. I could have sworn I saw the lightning struck one of the wings. It certainly didn't help watching with horror the news of the Air France 447 just fell off the sky. I always assumed once we got to cruising altitude, everything would be fine. Well, I was wrong.

So, I have been doing some reading and exercise to help me with flying anxiety as I have several long-haul flights to take next month. From what I gather, the AF 447 was stalling at high altitude and the pilots did everything wrong to recover from stalling (nose up instead of nose down). It is indeed scary if the very people you trust your life with have no clue what they're doing.

However, it is also suggested that it is not easy to recover from stalling at such high altitude (35k ft) when the autopilot is disengaged. I find this even scarier. Even if those pilots did everything they could, if it was just not possible to recover when they flew in such high altitude they were doomed from the moment the pitot tube froze and fed wrong data to the system, right? Is there any experienced pilot here who can tell me whether it's true or not?

Thanks a lot.

PS: no ridicule please. I know it's irrational, plane is one of the safest mode of transportation, etc.

[JolieGal]

A pilot probably would laugh when an engine drops out or when landing on an icy runway...

It must be tougher for them. They are responsible for the lives of the passengers too.

Fear of flying is more common than you think. I have a friend who has the same fear and I referred him to this site:


http://www.askcaptainlim.com/-fear-o...flying-48.html


It's a site set up by a former Malaysia Airlines pilot. He addresses a lot of your fears in the Q&A section.

Thanks a lot Loney.

a phobia is not something to ridicule, though it may seems illogical for others to witness. in my case, i have acrophobia, afraid of heights. yes, im trembling to cross a bridge or stepping the escalator, and dont even mention the all glass elevator (damn the inventor!).

but i can manage to get on an airplane and even fall asleep peacefully along the way. cause it's not exactly the 'heights' itself. i came to study my own symptoms that it was most of the time 'the lack of contact between my feet and the surface' that irritates me. that's why i can have a peaceful sleep on a plane flying miles above the ground but i went hysteric and peed my own pants when i was stuck on a seesaw top... (this is unfortunately a real case of my family's planned trap and documented...)

You are just like hubby. He is terrified of heights but he always tries to conquer his fears by going up to tall building. In a way, I guess the same for me too. My fear never stops me from flying, but imagine a 12-hour flight with clammy hands, elevated heart rate and difficulty breathing every time we hit turbulence. Not fun at all

[JolieGal]

The issue was discussed already here.

Most bad-ass, best looking military aircraft... - Page 4 from post 33 on.

I know the phenomenon's name won't help your getting rid of your phobia but I can assure you that it is very rare for a commercial airplane to fly into this sort of situations.

Thanks Red,

From what I have read so far, coffin corner is the range of maximum and minimum speed (depending on weight of the plane and altitude) of cruising speed and it becomes narrower as the plane flies higher, correct? Meaning if the autopilot is disengaged at high altitude, a simple human error can be deadly.

That is why it concerns me. If it was indeed impossible for that doomed 447 flight to recover from stalling (speed lower than coffin corner) at 35k feet, I don't feel safe even at cruising altitude. I mean, if a plane can just fall off the sky like that, that's fricking scary.

[JolieGal]

As mentioned; very unusual. The Air France plane that crashed on its way from Brazil may have had faulty air speed indicators which would cause a stall as the pilots wouldn't know how fast they were going. Too fast and the plane breaks up while too slow and the plane stalls. They have dealt with that problem now.

There was a famous case several years ago where an British Airways Boeing 747 stalled (all 4 engines) over the Phillippines due to volcanic ash. The pilot herocially sent the plane into a nose dive, glider style, and got all the engines going again by forcing air through them at speed. Glad I wasn't on board. Taking off and landing is generally considered to be the most dangerous time.

It's a comfort to know there are still skilled pilots out there. I saw the TV show about a China Airlines plane spun out of control and nose-dived for thousands feet but the pilot managed to level off the plane before it hit the ocean. Phew....that was amazing.

My problem with 447 was, didn't the pilot feel the plane was stalling? I imagine, as an experienced pilot, he should have felt there was no lift and the plane was descending. Instead of relying on the faulty indicator, why didn't he just fly the damn thing THEN figure out what went wrong. He had three full minutes to save the day but he didn't. If he did, but it is just not physically possible to recover from stalling at such altitude, AGAIN, that's even scarier.

[JolieGal]

@Davita,

Glad we have a pilot here on the forum.

I have a couple of question here.

1. Do you think it was "air pockets" that sent the plane I was in plunging down (it was good to know that the plane still moved forward though hahahahhaha)? Is it normal to find air pockets in the middle of a blizzard? I really hate to know that before we took off from Frankfurt, the crews didn't check the weather en route first; they could have avoided Russia!

2. Is it possible to recover from the stalling at +30k altitude manually (autopilot is off)?

Oh yes, I remember when flying was a pleasant experience. As a kid watching pilots in their uniforms, I thought they were awesome. Nowadays, I am just glad at least they are not drunk hahahahahhaa.

Speaking of which, I somehow still have trust in Indonesian pilots, but I don't trust the maintenance engineers here. What do you think?

[JolieGal]

@PRose,

Glad to know that you managed to overcome your anxiety. Can you PM me the details? However, if it's a hypnotherapist I am not interested. Thanks.

[lone_ranger]

My problem with 447 was, didn't the pilot feel the plane was stalling? I imagine, as an experienced pilot, he should have felt there was no lift and the plane was descending. Instead of relying on the faulty indicator, why didn't he just fly the damn thing THEN figure out what went wrong. He had three full minutes to save the day but he didn't. If he did, but it is just not physically possible to recover from stalling at such altitude, AGAIN, that's even scarier.

This may have to do with the fact that the plane was in instrument meterological conditions at night so there would be nothing to rely on (not even looking out the window) except for the instruments. I read somewhere that the pilot flying mentioned a faulty VSI (vertical speed indicator) when it was actually stuck at the maximum when they were dropping like a rock (they apparently had been stalling for over three minutes). Here's a quote from one of the accident reports:

Despite the fact that they were aware that altitude was declining rapidly, the pilots were unable to determine which instruments to trust: it may have appeared to them that all values were incoherent.

They may even have believed that they were climbing when they applied full thrust at various points during the crisis with the nose pitched up. The worst thing one can rely on is sensory perception in such conditions; spatial disorientation/sensory illusions can all result in one making the wrong decisions. But when instruments aren't working (e.g. iced pitot) then it can be tough to figure out what to do next.

[JolieGal]

based on my experience, i thought more safety if u choose the flight in the morning than nite.
yes, i could be panic when the plan shaked by the wind, but i dunno i will sleep so tight at that moment.
then i hope eveything gonna be okay after i wake up.

some friend said it's unique, coz i could sleep tightly in the panic time lol

Lesson learnt. I will not fly domestic at nighttime any more. If anything, the traffic at Cengkareng is a b*tch.

But you cannot avoid flying nighttime with long-haul flights. I used to sleep all the way through after dinner, but nowadays, I would like to be awake and sober in case something happens. So far, these what help me a little bit:

1. Sitting close to emergency exit (somehow knowing there's a way out calms me down)
2. Drinking chamomile tea and lots of water, avoiding coffee and alcohol
3. Watching flight attendants. If they look calm and happy, I feel better

[JolieGal]

@Crusader,

Misery loves company and it's good to know that I'm not alone. My sympathy for your fears really. It's good that you can trick your mind and calm yourself. I don't think much of Earthquake, etc. As long as I know there is SOMETHING I can do to save myself, I don't really worry about it. Sure driving is more dangerous than flying. But if I'm in the driver seat, I make sure I drive safely. If someone else drives recklessly, I can easily say "okay stop right here, let me out RIGHT NOW". You can't do that when you're thousands feet above the ground. I use breathing techniques I learn in yoga class to calm me down, but sometimes when the turbulence is exceptionally bad, all those techniques are out of the window.

I watch the same TV Show too. It does help to know what happened and how they can prevent it in the future.