Dual Citizenship

**Sonny** · 07-03-11, 22:47

Originally Posted by lumayan

Would there be any disadvantages to having your kids having dual citzenship? Say US and Indonesian?

I wouldnt recommend it as i did as my wife took my childred for an holiday in indonesia to visit family and havnt been back yet after two years....

**roti bakar** · 07-03-11, 23:24

Well...

I think giving benefit for one person might not give benefit for other person.
I personally think if there's no problem with the marriage, then having dual citizenship is really useful.

**atlantis** · 08-03-11, 11:40

I think that the fact that the marriage having or not problems is irrelevant. Dual citizenship is a RIGHT that the kids have when they born from a mixed couple.

**cynkawa** · 08-03-11, 20:46

Originally Posted by nickie

The information I have given above was from Atlantis, I haven't been a parent myself. From what I've heard if the father is Indonesian citizen then the kid is entitled to have an Indonesian citizenship because Indonesia acknowledges the principle of "us sanguinis", which means a child's nationality is based upon the father's nationality. Therefore, a child born in either Indonesia or overseas and having an Indonesian father is automatically Indonesian. But to be honest I'm not sure what happens In your case, if your son has already held a Japanese passport/citizenship and you did not claim before august 1st 2010.

I have a daughter in the same situation as yours and we have been told that a child born to an Indonesian father gets citizenship automatically. For us we just need to go to the embassy to fill out the passport papers etc. (We haven't done it yet so can not verify if it works this way). The only problem with this is that they would not (before Aug 2010) and still will not allow us to keep her foreign passport. I have had it explained to me by Atlantis that this is not correct with all the relevant acts etc but to be honest we have decided that there is not enough international laws recognised in Indonesia to make dual citizenship here safe for children of mixed citizen parents.

Let me explain my thoughts (and would be happy and interested in yours);

If my daughter held both NZ and Indonesian citizen (with me holding a KITAS) and something happened to my husband (divorce or death) I am not convinced that I would/could get her safely out of the country with me. (I know all very selfish to take her with me) if she held this Indonesian passport. She would be seen as a Indonesian citizen, here because of this. It could become very difficult to fight for my rights to her if I was here "temporarily". I am not even convinced I would receive a fair hearing and the NZ government would not intervene as she is an Indonesian citizen. NOW if she was on just a NZ passport and the same scenario happened I could take her back to NZ (if need be with the help of the NZ government) and my husband (who holds permanent residency in NZ) could come back and "fight" in court, with neither of us having any more rights than the other.

These are just my/our thoughts and after 14years of marriage we are pretty sure that we will not have to ever face this situation except if he died.............. anything is possible then. We saw this happen a few times while living in Malaysia (I know different country etc) and have witnessed first hand children being taken from mothers (Indonesian) and never allowed access.

Would love to hear what your thoughts are, do you think we/I am over reacting, do you know of any situation that would prove my thoughts wrong.

**cynkawa** · 08-03-11, 20:55

Originally Posted by atlantis

I think that the fact that the marriage having or not problems is irrelevant. Dual citizenship is a RIGHT that the kids have when they born from a mixed couple.

I agree with you on this if the rights for the parents were the same in both countries ie: permenant residency with all the prevailing rights that come with that, equal access to justice etc.
Atlantis do you believe that there would be equal rights if things went wrong? (I am genuinely interested in your response at it is something I have worried about since our daughter was born, 13 yrs ago).

**roti bakar** · 08-03-11, 20:55

Originally Posted by atlantis

I think that the fact that the marriage having or not problems is irrelevant. Dual citizenship is a RIGHT that the kids have when they born from a mixed couple.

very TRUE

I was writing my line on the marriage because the poster has posted things about his marriage and kinda blame the dual citizenship (and other things) as one of the causes of the problem in his life.

**nickie** · 09-03-11, 16:15

Originally Posted by cynkawa

?..if my daughter held both NZ and Indonesian citizen (with me holding a KITAS) and something happened to my husband (divorce or death) I am not convinced that I would/could get her safely out of the country with me. (I know all very selfish to take her with me) if she held this Indonesian passport. She would be seen as a Indonesian citizen, here because of this. It could become very difficult to fight for my rights to her if I was here "temporarily". I am not even convinced I would receive a fair hearing and the NZ government would not intervene as she is an Indonesian citizen. NOW if she was on just a NZ passport and the same scenario happened I could take her back to NZ (if need be with the help of the NZ government) and my husband (who holds permanent residency in NZ) could come back and "fight" in court, with neither of us having any more rights than the other....

Cynkawa, I understand your concerns. These are just my thoughts, please don't take it for granted. I believe if your daughter holds both Nz and Indonesian citizens, you wouldn't have a problem to take her out of Indonesia the marriage is ended by divorce/death. But if you are worried that your husband would take your daughter (holding both NZ and Indonesian passports) from you if the marriage breaks down by divorce, then you would also have the same problem as now that your daughter only holds NZ passport (with affidavit on her NZ passport I suppose?). you would still have the risk that your husband would just run away with your daughter, make a new affidavit and make a new Indonesian passport.

I guess when a marriage comes to an end either by divorce or death, this is the time when prenuptial/postnuptial agreement plays role. It's not only to protect the assets but also to protect the children and both parents. This is when people do not realize how important the agreement could be. Perhaps it is not too late to make a postnuptial agreement?

If one day I have a child born from mix marriage, I would get both passport for my child, not only because it could be convenient for us but also because they have right to hold both citizenships. And I would also make sure that I have prenuptial agreement between my husband and I to protect all of us.

I would love to share this with you and other people. If you have any other thoughts please write this down in the forum.

**Gerarrr** · 09-03-11, 19:25

How does the Indonesian gov know if your child or wife obtain citizenship in your country as well? I wonder about my fiancee - when married can she eventually get citizenship in my country, but just not say anything to Indonesia? Does imigrasi check foreign visas to see if they're stamped in the RI passport (because if you had a secret 2nd passport you were using the visas would not be in the RI passport)?

**cynkawa** · 09-03-11, 19:39

Originally Posted by nickie

Cynkawa, I understand your concerns. These are just my thoughts, please don't take it for granted. I believe if your daughter holds both Nz and Indonesian citizens, you wouldn't have a problem to take her out of Indonesia the marriage is ended by divorce/death. But if you are worried that your husband would take your daughter (holding both NZ and Indonesian passports) from you if the marriage breaks down by divorce, then you would also have the same problem as now that your daughter only holds NZ passport (with affidavit on her NZ passport I suppose?). you would still have the risk that your husband would just run away with your daughter, make a new affidavit and make a new Indonesian passport.

I guess when a marriage comes to an end either by divorce or death, this is the time when prenuptial/postnuptial agreement plays role. It's not only to protect the assets but also to protect the children and both parents. This is when people do not realize how important the agreement could be. Perhaps it is not too late to make a postnuptial agreement?

If one day I have a child born from mix marriage, I would get both passport for my child, not only because it could be convenient for us but also because they have right to hold both citizenships. And I would also make sure that I have prenuptial agreement between my husband and I to protect all of us.

I would love to share this with you and other people. If you have any other thoughts please write this down in the forum.

Thanks for posting your thoughts on all of this..................................... I have spent many years looking at it so am interested in others thoughts.
I understand it is much more difficult if not impossible for her to have a passport/citizen made here as there would have to be proof given on her legal status and the Aug 2010 date has passed etc etc. Kidnapping of children is a world wide problem so it could happen even if we lived in NZ.................... husband or wife up and runs with a child. The difference is that if that happened here or NZ the NZ government would step in as she is a NZ citizen. If she was here and "kidnapped" with a Indonesia passport when I would have no governmental support.

No affidavit on her passport, she is here and has been on a KITAS attached to my KITAS.
A pre-nup will not protect her in a custody dispute here (or in NZ). They come under a completely different law.
No such thing as a postnuptual agreement, especially after 14yrs of marriage.

The reality of all this is that if anyone tried to "kidnap" our 13yr old daughter they would have a fight on thier hands (even if it was either of us). She has an amazing sense of justice and has been taught how to get to a safe place, to ensure she is being heard and to keep talking even if she is not being listened to if she is in danger. I don't worry about this as a reality from my husband as he has an emotional tie to NZ as well and would come back to NZ if anything happened to us and our marriage has settled into a great relationship but I am not so sure of others if something happened to him.

Has anyone seen or heard of a custody dispute between a foreign mother and Indonesia father go to court and result in a fair outcome? (or foreign father Indonesian mother).

**cynkawa** · 09-03-11, 19:43

Originally Posted by Gerarrr

How does the Indonesian gov know if your child or wife obtain citizenship in your country as well? I wonder about my fiancee - when married can she eventually get citizenship in my country, but just not say anything to Indonesia? Does imigrasi check foreign visas to see if they're stamped in the RI passport (because if you had a secret 2nd passport you were using the visas would not be in the RI passport)?

They don't, it will only come up if the Indonesian citizen applies to renew their passport outside of Indonesia. They have to sign a document to say they have not applied or received citizenship in another country. Most people get round this by renewing passports in Indonesia, then no such document is required. Children can have both so it is not an issue.