Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

DSLR or prosumer

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    I bought my prosumer Sony H7 because it was cheap (399 down to 199) but the slowness of the sensor especially in the burst mode leaving me wanting more.

    Other than that, it served me pretty well for anything other than speed/sport pictures.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Kuntarini View Post
      Dear Roti Bakar,

      Prosumer is much better in capturing light than DSLR.

      Here is the discussion http://www.kamera-digital.com/forum/...&page=0#122966
      I dont beleive that. As hombre said, dslr's have larger sensors and better light gathering.
      With that said however, i think dslr's still have a long way to go. I have recently been experimenting with ETTR techniques and it makes a hell of a difference in both details and sharpness. The only problem though is you need some well placed lighting gear. 50% of details are recorded in the histograms last stop and 25% in the 2nd last stop. Cameras ETTL methods barely even reach the last stop of the histogram which means even with a dslr most people are effectively photographing less than half of their cameras potential details. I think anyone who says a prosumer is better at capturing light, has very little knowledge of cameras.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Kuntarini View Post
        Dear Roti Bakar,

        Prosumer is much better in capturing light than DSLR.

        Here is the discussion http://www.kamera-digital.com/forum/...&page=0#122966
        Granted, my Indonesian is not fluent, at all. But from what I can tell there isn't a single post there that has any proof, even anecdotal, about why prosumer is better than dslr in capturing light. The "better than DSLR" comment was about the user not knowing how to use the cameras. There wasn't a photo comparison posted either. Nothing in that discussion can be taken as a good suggestion or good information. They're all misinformation and lack of knowledge in the equipment's technology. This is why I advocate people to understand, not just memorize the facts. When I teach photo classes (and math, science, engineering, and other topics), my aim is for people to understand the subject and be able to find the facts on their own. I don't expect them to memorize much, just understand.

        My advice for anyone who read that discussion thread, don't remember anything that was written in there. Yes there are some facts thrown in here and there that were true. But used in the wrong context.

        I agree with Hombre, I'm interested in what you think about that discussion thread, Kunta. Perhaps we can help you understand how cameras work a little better than the posters there.

        - If there's nothing to focus on (black night sky) for the focus point, a DSLR won't take a picture. This is where you put the object of interest (surely you're not taking a picture of black night sky and nothing else) on one of the focus points (I use single focus point mode), press the button halfway to lock the focus and recompose. This is called pre-focusing, one of the basic techniques that works with DSLR or prosumer or point and shoot
        - The prosumer camera in this post took a picture at infinity focus
        - The prosumer camera in this post took a picture at max ISO, so yes you'll see a picture with the low light objects being brought up in brightness. But it would be VERY VERY VERY noisy. If the DSLR was to take a picture at the same ISO (or higher) it would look better. Less noise, better color saturation, etc etc

        Some observations:
        - not sure if you can classify the A610 as a prosumer
        - "prosumer" is a marketing term, not a description of a group of cameral. DSLR is Digital Single Lense Reflex, it describes a group of cameras with similar physical features. Anyone can make a DSLR with no manual mode, just as a point and shoot can have individual manual controls
        - "better in low light" depends on the lens. But given eveyrthing is the same, larger sensor size (by that I mean pixel size) the better. a full frame (35mm equivalent) sensor with 12Mp will, by the law of physics gather more light per pixel than a Canon A610's sensors

        With the advent of the internet, the downside is that bad and wrong information can be found just as easily (more easily) than good, accurate information. Please be careful with what you read, do some independent research and critical thinking to ask questions. We have to understand the topics we're interested in, not just memorize what someone told us, no matter how many extra letters before and after their names they have.

        Comment


        • #34
          beebop: ETTR has its uses. but if you understand how/why it works, it's the same as the old classic of Zone Metering. :-D You can use basic zone metering and it will be second nature quickly enough. Then your exposures will be just right for what you need it to be. Not just "right exposure" because the histogram looks right.

          Comment


          • #35
            Not to mention, of course, that, for example, on a Canon DSLR you can mount low-light specialist, big aperture lenses like a 24mm f/1.4 or a 50mm f/1.2 lens. Any so-called "prosumer" will be hard pressed to match the low-light capability of a Canon 5D MkII at ISO 3200 with the 24mm f/1.4 lens or with the 85mm f/1.2 lens. What passes for good low-light capability on a "prosumer" camera is extreme image processing that kills noise at the expense of detail or vice-versa.

            Another issue is the dynamic range (the range of intensity, from the darkest to the lightest, that the camera can capture without losing detail) which, once again, is a function of the physical size of the sensor. The laws of physics are the laws of physics.
            Last edited by Hombre de Maiz; 02-04-11, 12:40.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by rabbit_39 View Post
              beebop: ETTR has its uses. but if you understand how/why it works, it's the same as the old classic of Zone Metering. :-D You can use basic zone metering and it will be second nature quickly enough. Then your exposures will be just right for what you need it to be. Not just "right exposure" because the histogram looks right.
              Well ok, im still experimenting with ettr because im new to the dslr world. Also im exclusively a portrait photographer. I can understand how the rules may change for other types of photography.
              However i find that if i let the camera choose exposure, it always misses the last stop in the histogram which is the most important for digital photography. And seeing that last stop holds the most detail, thats why i add a +1 to my exposure. Not via shutter speed or iso because that will introduce noise or blow out any backlighting, but rather +1 exposure on a bounced flash (sometimes +2 depending on the distance between camera and subject). The flash will also affect only my subject and not the background so backlighting can be saved from over exposure. I see it as compressing the dynamic range.
              You cant use use rules of film photography for digital photography because details are linear throughout the exposure. Digital is different in that each stop will double in details. Missing the last stop in your histogram means throwing away half a picture. 'Right exposure' can come in photoshop after i have already captured maximum information within the raw file.
              The way to know if you have recorded the utmost maximum detail is to view your histogram in RGB mode. None of the colours should be clipped but your lighting must be in such a way to cause a huge spike mostly within the last stop on the histogram. Once you open it in photoshop and you adjust exposure to where it should be, you will see a very well distributed histogram that resembles hdr histograms but without the cooked look. After doing this, my pictures are looking immensly cleaner, sharper and more professional looking.

              Comment


              • #37
                For portraits, a zone system would be perfect. And you're practically using the zone system...almost. The reason it's perfect is because:
                - control of light quality and quantity
                - time is on your side

                "can't use rules of film photography" is only half right. There are differences between film and digital. However, exposure is exposure. What I'd recommend is:
                - meter off the face to be exposed perfectly
                - meter the highlight you want to have definition in
                - meter the shadows you want to have the definition in
                - If the highlights will be blown (since you know how many stops above perfect exposure the latitude of your camera's sensor can record information), reduce the difference in light quantity between the face and the highlight
                - same as above for the shadows

                This will ensure ALL of your information is recorded within the dynamic range of your media (your sensor, in this case). Regardless of linearity, when you know how many stops above and below perfect exposure your latitude is, you will record everything you need.

                ETTR has some issues:
                - need post processing
                - only focuses on "amount of details" rather than quality of the details. ETTR practicioner tend to be pixel peepers and histogram readers rather than being a good artist they are/would be/could be
                - When shooting to the right of a black cat on a black surface, you'll get extra noise in the shadows. Best if you decide what shade of gray is your black (zone 0) and meter up from there.
                - when shooting to the right of a white cat on a white sheet, you might lose some highlight detail

                Just be careful is all I'm saying, and make sure you understand the theory behind ETTR.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by rabbit_39 View Post
                  - When shooting to the right of a black cat on a black surface, you'll get extra noise in the shadows. Best if you decide what shade of gray is your black (zone 0) and meter up from there.
                  Not if youre using + exposure on the bounced flash. You will actually get far less noise and far more details.

                  Originally posted by rabbit_39 View Post
                  - when shooting to the right of a white cat on a white sheet, you might lose some highlight detail
                  You may be right there.

                  Originally posted by rabbit_39 View Post
                  Just be careful is all I'm saying, and make sure you understand the theory behind ETTR.
                  Im learning more every day and thanks for the advice. Much apreciated.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Beebop: when you're altering the light as you described for the black cat example, you're really using the zone system to ensure your scene fits within the dynamic range of your medium. That's why I said you're kind of using the system anyway. but yes, you're right. We all just have to keep learning.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Will be back discussing this..... I have plenty other things to do at the moment.......



                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Pretty good thread to resurrect

                        Plus...now my KITAP is done, I suddenly got plenty of free time

                        After doing lots of Photoshopping (prewedding, wedding pics, family pics, etc) decided to just buy myself a camera so I can learn more about exposure, etc In the end it can only enhance my Photoshop skills too.

                        Didn't know the word "Prosumer" until I came across this thread!

                        Canon 650D or 60D is a bit too expensive for me. A friend suggested Sony A6000. Nice camera, but still a bit too expensive...I'm looking to get A5100.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Simple rule I was told some time ago.

                          If most of your pictures are outside, buy a Nikon, if inside buy a Canon.
                          Also look at the lens options.
                          [COLOR=#ff0000]Great spirits have often encountered violent opposition from weak minds[/COLOR]. Albert Einstein

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Drats that leaves the Sony out!

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Banana72 View Post
                              Canon 650D or 60D is a bit too expensive for me. A friend suggested Sony A6000. Nice camera, but still a bit too expensive...I'm looking to get A5100.
                              The A6000 is an excellent choice for an all-around camera that is both good for a beginner and many, many professionals. The A5100 is the same sensor and comparable in many ways. The three primary differences are the A6000 has a viewfinder, some extra physical controls, and a more robust build.

                              The low end Canon and Nikon DSLRs remain popular for good reason, they are great cameras. A primary detraction versus the Sony and other mirrorless cameras is their larger size. Though one primary advantage to them is their long history provides much larger lens selections, and many more high-quality, low-cost lenses available.

                              Originally posted by jim69 View Post
                              Simple rule I was told some time ago.

                              If most of your pictures are outside, buy a Nikon, if inside buy a Canon.
                              Also look at the lens options.
                              This is both way too simplistic and totally inaccurate; the best low light cameras are made by Sony and Nikon (with sony-made sensors). Check DXOmark: http://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Ratings
                              Last edited by \\ brad //; 30-09-15, 23:22.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                you might consider mirrorless system camera; for this type, Olympus is the market leader - most lens selection available among mirrorless system; from economic kit lens to very fast, weatherproof and ruggedized pro lens.
                                very compact and light body; ideal for UWP or traveling. With pancake lens, almost like a pocket camera.
                                if budget allow; get the OMD EM-1 or OMD EM-5 Mark 2; the dynamic range is better than most of APS-C DSLR.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X