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  • #16
    What about a micro 4/3 type of camera?

    They have most if not all of the features of DSLR minus the bulk. Ok the lenses may not be as sharp or as fast but:
    1. It's a new category, so lens quality will definitely improve. It's not too bad to start with anyway
    2. Basic kit lenses you find with a basic DSLR are quite crappy anyway

    I highly recommend the Olympus E-PL2.

    As per learning photography, the theory can be learned on your own. There are thousands of resources online (check out digital photography school). But it's like Poker, the rules are easy to learn but the game is hard to master, so you will need lots of practice and experimentations.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by roti bakar View Post
      NO Mbak, the P is only Program and the M is only Menu
      and .....I tried to use DSLR and all I got are blurry pics....that's why I'm thinking that prosumer is better to start
      I don't mind outgrow it in couple of weeks...but I don't think I have the confidence yet
      What's inside Program and Menu, Roti Bakar? Perhaps what you need is already there.



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      • #18
        The 4/3 format sensor is smaller, ergo the smaller camera size. The smaller the sensor, the less sensitive to light it is.

        A problem with the prosumers is that the lenses attached to them are not as high quality and as high performance as stand-alone lenses.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by rabbit_39 View Post
          blurry pictures reasons:
          - out of focus, check the multiple focus points that it's focusing on what you want it to
          - low shutter speed, you moved. So the whole scene is blurry
          - low shutter speed, your subject moved

          Basic photography covers 3 variables:
          - shutter speed
          - aperture
          - media's sensitivity to light (ISO)

          Choose a prosumer that lets you control those things. A good prosumer camera is another tool in your bag, not "less than" your "real" camera.
          I assume maybe because I moved....I haven't tried to moving subject....so I think it's me the problem is.
          Any suggestion on what kind of prosumer camera is good?

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          • #20
            Originally posted by El_Goretto View Post
            What about a micro 4/3 type of camera?

            They have most if not all of the features of DSLR minus the bulk. Ok the lenses may not be as sharp or as fast but:
            1. It's a new category, so lens quality will definitely improve. It's not too bad to start with anyway
            2. Basic kit lenses you find with a basic DSLR are quite crappy anyway

            I highly recommend the Olympus E-PL2.

            As per learning photography, the theory can be learned on your own. There are thousands of resources online (check out digital photography school). But it's like Poker, the rules are easy to learn but the game is hard to master, so you will need lots of practice and experimentations.
            Thanks for the advice....not sure about 4/3 though
            I have never tried....and I think if i outgrow it...my hubby won't be able to use it

            Agree with the practice and experiments

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Kuntarini View Post
              What's inside Program and Menu, Roti Bakar? Perhaps what you need is already there.
              Nah.....it's an old compact.
              I master it already.....
              And it's just some girly applications and also kinda auto things to do with different stuff
              such as making macro pic, sports, etc....to make the camera is user friendly

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              • #22
                There are techniques on camera holding that will minimize blur. I can handhold my DSLR with a sizeable (but not too large) f2.8 lens down to 1/20th of a second with better than 50/50 outcome. Hold the camera (most camera) with both hands, left under the base, right hand holding the grip. Tuck in your upper arm against your chest, basically elbows on your ribs. legs apart shoulder width or slightliy wider. take a deep breath, let go halfway, hold your breath press the shutter and let go of your breath after the shutter is pressed. practice.

                I'm not sure there's one perfect prosumer. Depends on your style of shooting. I'm jonesing for a camera like a Canon S95 or something similar. Bright lens (f2.0 or wider), small, larger than average sensor size if possible. Some people need the Canon g12. Sigma makes a good one too, but no zoom. etc etc... Elaborate a bit more on the type of shooting you do and what you like to do. For now, I'd say get a Panasonic superzoom and be done with it for a few months. Get LOTS of shooting, AND lots of criticisms. The mechanics I can teach you over pm/email. you need to develop your sense of design and style. At the very least, know why certain photos are good, and others aren't.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by rabbit_39 View Post
                  There are techniques ... breath after the shutter is pressed. practice.

                  I'm not sure there's one perfect prosumer. Depends on your style of shooting... The mechanics I can teach you over pm/email. you need to develop your sense of design and style. At the very least, know why certain photos are good, and others aren't.
                  Thanks for the basic teaching and the offer
                  Will PM you when I have decided which camera to buy

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Hombre de Maiz View Post
                    The 4/3 format sensor is smaller, ergo the smaller camera size. The smaller the sensor, the less sensitive to light it is.

                    A problem with the prosumers is that the lenses attached to them are not as high quality and as high performance as stand-alone lenses.
                    Agreed but it's a good compromise between prosumer (also called bridge) and low end DSLR. I'm even sure that it's on par with the basic Canon slr (1000D, 550D) in terms of low light capabilities.

                    Originally posted by roti bakar View Post
                    Thanks for the advice....not sure about 4/3 though
                    I have never tried....and I think if i outgrow it...my hubby won't be able to use it

                    Agree with the practice and experiments
                    Seriously, go to a shop and hold one, play around with it. I almost bought one in Singapore 2 weeks ago. I usually carry around my Canon 5Dmk2 when travelling but sometimes it's way too big to carry, my backpack is too big, too heavy, it's crazy. This time around I carried my ricoh GX100 which is a pretty good compact with full manual controls and even if I was quite happy to have something so light to carry in my "man purse" I still missed the low light capabilities of a bigger sensor and the flexibility of having different lenses for different situations (the ricoh lens is not wide enough nor long enough). An E-PL2 would have been perfect!

                    I know a few photographers in Australia who have sold their Canon or Nikon DSLR systems to get a micro 4/3 and don't regret it.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by El_Goretto View Post
                      Agreed but it's a good compromise between prosumer (also called bridge) and low end DSLR. I'm even sure that it's on par with the basic Canon slr (1000D, 550D) in terms of low light capabilities.

                      ....
                      If so, Olympus must have either broken the laws of physics or developed a sensor technology so ahead of its competitors that it would now have a lead in market share...

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by rabbit_39 View Post
                        There are techniques on camera holding that will minimize blur. I can handhold my DSLR with a sizeable (but not too large) f2.8 lens down to 1/20th of a second with better than 50/50 outcome. ....
                        Handholding a 200mm lens with a shutter speed of 1/20th second will return a much lower rate of good, "unshaken" shots than, say, a 20mm lens at the same shutter speed. The point is that the focal length of the lens matters. The general rule is 1/focal length. You can handhold a 200mm lens at a shutter speed no slower than 1/200th second. You can handhold a 50mm lens at a shutter speed no slower than 1/50th of a second.

                        Canon's Image Stabilization technology is amazing. You can handhold the lens at a 200mm focal length without degradation at 1/25th second.

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                        • #27
                          Dear Roti Bakar,

                          Prosumer is much better in capturing light than DSLR.

                          Here is the discussion http://www.kamera-digital.com/forum/...&page=0#122966



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                          • #28
                            Why would that be, Kunta? Why would a camera with a smaller sensor be better at capturing low light? Does it not strike you that the prosumer/DSLR dichotomy is so general and undefined as to be meaningless? What do you mean by "prosumer"?

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Hombre de Maiz View Post
                              Why would that be, Kunta? Why would a camera with a smaller sensor be better at capturing low light? Does it not strike you that the prosumer/DSLR dichotomy is so general and undefined as to be meaningless? What do you mean by "prosumer"?
                              Panjang diskusinya......baca aja.......



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                              • #30
                                Nah, I am interested in your understanding of the issue and details. I want to hear you debate the point...

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