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NEWBIES - Beware of illegal employment offers - Updated.

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  • #16
    Originally posted by saigon View Post
    \
    .! Am about to sign a contract this week, but I wanted to include all future legal dispute had to be in my country of origin..or to be certified by my embassy (if its possible).
    Good luck with that. Though even if they include it in your contract it doesn't mean they will follow it. Also beware only the Indonesian translation of the contract is the one that can be used in court if needed. So just because it's there in the English one doesn't mean it is in the Indonesian translation.
    The challenge is to be yourself in a world that is trying to make you like everyone else.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by saigon View Post
      Am about to sign a contract this week, but I wanted to include all future legal dispute had to be in my country of origin.
      I had a smile reading this. Would youn as an employer, accept and cover the expenses to send a lawyer in a foreign country to dispute a case which happened in your own country and bound by the manpower law of your own country?

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      • #18
        @T.Chez: Thanks, that's an informative trivia, only Indonesian translated contract is acceptable in local court.

        Originally posted by atlantis View Post
        I had a smile reading this. Would youn as an employer, accept and cover the expenses to send a lawyer in a foreign country to dispute a case which happened in your own country and bound by the manpower law of your own country?
        well, my prospective employer business is here but its mother company is based in my country and all the officers..I think it will protect both of our interest...I have a similar situation a year ago when I was stationed in KSA(Saudi), though my contract was signed in my country prior to the departure.
        Last edited by saigon; 12-06-13, 15:11.
        "The past cannot be changed,
        the future is still in your power."

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        • #19
          Originally posted by saigon View Post
          though my contract was signed in my country prior to the departure.
          That's the key.

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          • #20
            The second, most important thing is you must realize is that employment in Indonesia is not truly open to expatriates. 2008 government figures show that 8.4% of the population is unemployed and 10+% of those are professionals. Indonesian government policy is very clear that it does not want a company in Indonesia, domestic or foreign, to hire an expatriate for a job that can be done by an Indonesian. There are too many unemployed Indonesians looking for work!
            This is a very narrow viewpoint and a reason why Indonesia does not progress economically. I have this viewpoint from my experiences working in China. Allow me to explain...

            China in the 1980's had profound unemployment and development has stagnated. Deng Xiaoping turned China's economic isolation around and put China on the path welcoming foreign companies and expatriates.

            When I first arrived in China in 1992 Shanghai was nothing more than a very large overcrowded village, everything was poor and I do mean everything!

            There was only one small stretch of highway leading to Songjiang in western Shanghai. Public transportation was rotten ancient buses worse than the mini buses here in Jakarta! Thousands upon thousands of bicycles clogged the streets. On Huaihai rd (which is now a famous shopping road) there was only one decent department store ISTAN, everything else was small shops and state run dept stores.

            There was only one western supermarket which was a glorified convenience store attached to the Portman Hotel which at that time was one of the three tallest buildings in Shanghai the other two are hotels as well, Equatorial and Galaxy everything else was at the Bund on the river.

            Pudong, which is east of the river was farms and small shops and the construction of the Oriental Pearl Tower had only just began and to get there one took a ferry.

            The process for my work visa was amazing as Immigration treated me as a VIP. They explained to me that China needs expats to bring new ideas, experiences and businesses to China so China can develop. There was never any mention I needed to train my replacement, as they made it clear I am very welcome to work and live in China as long as I want. I was the very first 'bule' registered to work in Songjiang and as such I received special attention by the mayor at a Chinese new year function for local businesses.

            Very shortly after my time in Shanghai (late 1994) I came to Jakarta and made the observation that Jakarta was so much more advanced than Shanghai!! To me in 1995, Jakarta was a modern cosmopolitan city compared to what Shanghai was at the same time. How about today, can I say this?

            China's open door to the west policy served China well, it brought money, experience and Chinese were able to learn and develop their own businesses and become the powerhouse that it is today. Chinese never worried that some expat was taking a job away from them, and Chinese businesses don't worry about expat businesses taking away their market rather its something that they copy for themselves and make money.

            Ask any Chinese about China and they will boast we will improve and be the best.

            Ask any Indonesian about Indonesia and they will complain we can't compete.

            Its that "we will never be any better than what we are now" mind set which is killing development.

            One cannot argue that China's development did not come as a result of China's open door policy which continues up to today. Rather it was that policy which started the ball rolling with their mindset of being the best. Chinese made it happen, they didn't just hoped it would happen. If Indonesia is to develop then the mindset must change from hoping something will happen to making it happen.

            I returned to China early in the early 2000's and getting a working visa was rather simple and straightforward and was valid for 2 years. Later I could renew for a 5 year period, no monthly fees, no hassles just fill out some forms, a copy of the work contract, business licence and the cost was not very much, in and out in just a few hours.

            I think perhaps it would have ultimately been best for Indonesia if the communists took control and then do a turn around so the slate is clean. This is what Vietnam is doing at this moment, the economy is taking off with investments and development.

            Meanwhile here in Jakarta people can only dream of a subway, or an elevated highway ring system such as what Shanghai has when they are fighting the microlets and stuck in traffic...wait, I forgot, we have the busway! :/

            Having said this, I did not like living in Shanghai, and I wanted to be here in Jakarta because of my good friends here, and I enjoy the company of the people and the culture and I love Indonesia and I feel Indonesia can take its place in the world as the fourth largest nation in development than simply a head count. Many social problems will simply fade away when people have jobs and feel secure in a future.

            These are my thoughts...
            Last edited by wm; 16-10-14, 08:09.

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            • #21
              It is a 100% correct on underlined point that we have to be more careful to work abroad, not only in Indonesia but also in other countries that is still developing.
              It is a bigger chance to earn something in such a developing country more than developed country where 'everything already exists', so of course there are plus and minus points for that.
              Culture difference and sometimes communication difficulties and obstacles may have increased or decreased the trust and behaviour of both locals and comers (this is applied in every corner in the earth), as long as we can totally understand and ensure the benefits from the mutual interest everything will run just well.
              Last edited by dean.hasl; 06-07-15, 23:20.

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