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  • marcus
    replied
    Originally posted by atoopishai View Post
    [LIST](1) ... how much do you know about animal suffering, for example? Are you willing to watch an abortion video? How about undercover secret footage of what goes on behind closed doors in some of the darkest farmhouses in the world? Or that wool sweater you own? Leather shoes? That Italian cheese you like so much? Your favourite salami? Would you say these are areas were you would use a bit of education? ...

    (2) ... how about stuff that doesn't affect you at all. Like animal testing? Did you know every year over 100 million animals are tested on and many killed in painful brutal conditions ...

    (3) And this Whatsapp monopoly is exactly what I mean by the corporations having control over us. they run our lives, ...

    (4) It is similar with eating meat, eggs and dairy. Maybe you know it is wrong to kill animals for mass profits, but since you may like the taste of cheese, for example, that becomes more important, than the lives of these animals ...

    (5) And regarding my brick phone it is just a backup phone in case a local wants to talk to me in real time, I use the internet to communicate with email, I still use email, but since most Indonesians are addicted to their devices, whatsapp, I will need to communicate with email rather than by phone, ...

    (6) Now it is all about texts using the Whatsapp ...

    (6.1) Your messages are being read by machines in order to better understand how they can create new services to control people's perception. That is what companies like FB and Google do, they search US, not that we search Google, but Google searches us ...

    (6.2) ... don't fall for the little tricks that are set out there, like because everyone else is doing it, maybe I should consider doing it as well ...

    (7) ... , what is permanent is the spirit and that is the ONE truth that we all have the same identical spirit, and that is why we are connected, it isn't because of similar interests, etc.. it is because of these spirits that we that we barely understand because they are non physical and we are ever so physical so how can a physical being understand the non physical well they cant that is why people ignore the spirit and fall victim to the temptations of the flesh and get lost there ...

    (8) And this being FORCED to use smartphones is just the beginning of the totalitarian approach of big tech companies, they will not be satisfied with anyone who doesn't opt to use the latest version, such people will be mocked for being backward and old fashioned out of touch and traditional as if those qualities are negative ...

    (8.1) That is why liberals for example find it so hard to have a conservative friend. or a religious person and atheist cannot see eye to eye, because they both have opposing feeds, the solution is to not have a feed at all, ...

    (9) And I do my internet banking on my laptop and refuse any bank that doesn't offer a desktop platform ... The more they talk about apps the less attracted I am ...

    (9.1) And this lack of ergonomics is another problem with smartphones, being so close to screens is bad for your eyes and those little keys are hard on your fingers, I wouldn't be surprised if there is serious health issues from a lifetime of smartphone use, ...

    (9.2) And there is no doubt smartphones can be useful and convenient, but is that really the point? Are you willing to lose so much of your connection with your fellow man (the spirit, I talked about) in order to get a few services?

    (9.3) Just look around at people's behaviour on their phones. Is it nice? Do you like entering a room and seeing everyone with their head down like digital zombies unaware of the waht's happening around them?

    (9.4) These are also the same people who refuse to watch those revealing videos. But give them an entertaining video, and they are all for it ...

    (1) I know a little about everything you mentioned , although I was never used to Italian cheese or salami , but used to leather shoes .

    (2) I know a little too .

    (3) I don't see it the same way as you . I think people use Whatsapp because it is a free app that is very convenient and can be used to save money (although I guess most of people spend more than save as they use it for superfluous things) .

    (4) I am vegetarian now more due to health concern , but in the past I ate about everything even after seeing chicken , pig , and cow kilings . Unfortunately I think this is the humans nature . I have been talking about human nature with my Indonesian friend and we agree about how imperfect we are . I personally think that , in the future not too far , the human race will have to pay for all the wrong things we have been doing .

    (5) I think that , at least in Indonesia , almost nobody will communicate with you with a brick phone or through email .

    (6) Not only text , but also video , photos ,calls , and video calls .

    (6.1) Yes they "spy" you , but not that they harm people . To me it is just a business model to make money .

    (6.2) As I said , I use Whatsapp for essencial objectives , not because I want to do what everybody is doing (although the fact that everybody is using Wharsapp is why I can fulfill my objectives) .

    (7) It is not the way I would think . I think in simple ways , so to me there are many truths and many lies .

    (8) Again I disagree with you . I think that around the world there were/are always things that most persons want , mainly : a lot of money , big house , cars , motorcycles , smartphones , atractive spouse , ... To me this is the human nature , not because companies are "forcing" us . Humans are "crazy" for pleasure , happiness , power , high status , ..

    (8.1) What I think is that people read/hear/see different information (about a specific subject) and in general they don't check extensively enough (humans are normally lazy) to know all the different facts/information related to that subject , so this make people to have different opinions about that subject . I don't think there is a solution for that .

    (9) I guess this is prejudice .

    (9.1) Yes I agree that prolonged use is not good for the eyes/body posture , and there is also the eletromagnetic radiation that probably is bad for the health too .

    (9.2) I use my smarthphone to increase my connection with other people (far away) , not the inverse .

    (9.3) I agree .

    (9.4) Human nature , in my view . People will prefer what make them happy .


    ---------------------------------------


    You seem to have many complaints about other people's behavior , but do you know that by doing tourism you are harming the environment ?
    I did read recently that the fuel you consume in a flight trip from A to B is equivalent to the fuel you would consume driving a car from A to B . Other article said that tourism made about 8% of global greenhouse gas emissions in 2013 (today it would be around 10%) .


    http://www.livinginindonesiaforum.or...ssions-in-2013
    Last edited by marcus; 23-12-19, 21:34.

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  • atoopishai
    replied
    • Yes naive and ignorant have similar meanings. But remember pride is also a word with lots of meaning, and it is another trait we ALL have and it really keeps us from opening up to each other. Of course you know stuff, and not niave about everything, but how much do you know about animal suffering, for example? Are you willing to watch an abortion video? How about undercover secret footage of what goes on behind closed doors in some of the darkest farmhouses in the world? Or that wool sweater you own? Leather shoes? That Italian cheese you like so much? Your favourite salami? Would you say these are areas were you would use a bit of education? And are you willing to be open to receiving such education even if it means turning your entire world view and lifestyle upside down? That is the true display of humility, which is the opposite of pride. Can you sit down and watch a documentary that challenges everything you know about the world?
    • And even though you may know about stuff that affects your lifestyle, how about stuff that doesn't affect you at all. Like animal testing? Did you know every year over 100 million animals are tested on and many killed in painful brutal conditions. And this goes in advanced, democratic nations that pride themselves on rights and liberties. All the while, they make exceptions for the most defenceless creatures on the planet, which they steal from nature and use and abuse so we can have cosmetics, etc...
    • And on the internet we understand each other wrong because there is no eye contact, that is why we send each other links, for example in PM, I can send you links to videos that will give you nightmares and make you cry, and shatter your naivety and ignorance about topics that you have never even thought about.
    • I was also once ignorant about these issues until I saw my first animal cruelty video, and I cried for days. The look in the eyes of the faces of these little creatures shattered my heart into pieces and I cannot have a conversation with anyone unless I speak about it. It is that heavy on my heart and mind.
    • And this Whatsapp monopoly is exactly what I mean by the corporations having control over us. they run our lives, so if one company creates a service that everyone uses, everyone else feels like they should use it too, this is how FB got a hold of nearly 50% of the human population. People who live in shacks and alleyways have smartphones and FB, but they don't have enough to eat and can't even afford to take the bus. Doesn't that seem a bit off? What is up these companies? Could it be they are up to something? How can they dominate the lives of so many people? Without anyone really questioning them? And when they are questioned, the addiction is so severe, even when people know something is up, they continue to use these services anyways, because by then the assimilation is complete. They're hooked.
    • It is similar with eating meat, eggs and dairy. Maybe you know it is wrong to kill animals for mass profits, but since you may like the taste of cheese, for example, that becomes more important, than the lives of these animals. Did you know for example, that by not eating these kinds of food, you save the life of over 200 animals every year? Just you, one person, can do that. But who cares of these 200 animal lives? Do you?
    • And regarding my brick phone it is just a backup phone in case a local wants to talk to me in real time, I use the internet to communicate with email, I still use email, but since most Indonesians are addicted to their devices, whatsapp, I will need to communicate with email rather than by phone, unless they are willing to call me/or be called, so the brick phone is to speak to humans using our voices. Something we are moving away from. Now it is all about texts using the Whatsapp corporation, reading our messages, and the A.I learning our way of speaking. That is another area of concern. Your messages are being read by machines in order to better understand how they can create new services to control people's perception. That is what companies like FB and Google do, they search US, not that we search Google, but Google searches us. There is a documentary about A.I. I have that should watch. Most people tune out because it is too "smart" and then quickly return to their texting.
    • Despite all that I have said, remember never to worry or be anxious for anything, and never let your joy leave you, and stay positive, HOWEVER, don't fall for the little tricks that are set out there, like because everyone else is doing it, maybe I should consider doing it as well. Never get into popular behavioural biases. Look into them, instead. This is the answer to ignorance. Looking into things. Like what I did about animals. I used to eat everything once upon a time. But now, I am like a hawk with food. What changed was the little face of the animal appearing in my mind everytime I saw food in the market or on the menu.
    • And the one truth is the ONE that applies to everyone, everywhere, and everytime, past present and future, so the same truth applies to the African bushman that applies to Donald Trump, doesn't matter who you are, or what life you lived, those are all temporary, what is permanent is the spirit and that is the ONE truth that we all have the same identical spirit, and that is why we are connected, it isn't because of similar interests, etc.. it is because of these spirits that we that we barely understand because they are non physical and we are ever so physical so how can a physical being understand the non physical well they cant that is why people ignore the spirit and fall victim to the temptations of the flesh and get lost there. These temptations also include technology, it is an illusion and deception that technology brings forth progress, as we advance technologically, you will notice we will regress morally, psychologically, and ultimately, spiritually.
      • And this being FORCED to use smartphones is just the beginning of the totalitarian approach of big tech companies, they will not be satisfied with anyone who doesn't opt to use the latest version, such people will be mocked for being backward and old fashioned out of touch and traditional as if those qualities are negative. All the way more and more people get scooped up into forced subscription of services and devices that will bleed them, most noticeably, in their spirits. People don't even look at each other anymore when they speak. every few seconds they look back into their phones as that is where they are most comfortable, with their screens, real life connections become painful as it doesn't jive with the fantasy created by their social media feed. That is why liberals for example find it so hard to have a conservative friend. or a religious person and atheist cannot see eye to eye, because they both have opposing feeds, the solution is to not have a feed at all, and return to a simpler existence. But that approach isn't trendy, so it's ignored, in ignorance of it.
      • And I do my internet banking on my laptop and refuse any bank that doesn't offer a desktop platform. I am also unimpressed with any app they make pitch or promote. The more they talk about apps the less attracted I am. And I use international digital banks, there is no need to go with a local bank. I move money around between different account digitally. My bank has no physical location.
      • And this lack of ergonomics is another problem with smartphones, being so close to screens is bad for your eyes and those little keys are hard on your fingers, I wouldn't be surprised if there is serious health issues from a lifetime of smartphone use, when we are old and grey, and most of us without children to take care of us will be left abandoned by society since we are old and useless. And then we will really see what all this technology amounted to. Just a prediction.
      • And there is no doubt smartphones can be useful and convenient, but is that really the point? Are you willing to lose so much of your connection with your fellow man (the spirit, I talked about) in order to get a few services? Just look around at people's behaviour on their phones. Is it nice? Do you like entering a room and seeing everyone with their head down like digital zombies unaware of the waht's happening around them? These are also the same people who refuse to watch those revealing videos. But give them an entertaining video, and they are all for it. These are your airheads. And they are spreading with these advent of these intrusive devices.

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  • scouser59
    replied
    Originally posted by marcus View Post
    So Scouser59 , first you tought it was unfortunate , but now that you bought/started using the smartphone you think it is useful , right ?
    Ya no choice ,I felt I would be forced into it at some point , mandiri pushed me into it ,I did ask them for a free phone ,but suprise suprise they said no !
    Some of the apps I knew would be good ,like waze , but ya I still prefer the bb keyboard , but I dont use the phone so much not like many on this planet .

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  • marcus
    replied
    So Scouser59 , first you tought it was unfortunate , but now that you bought/started using the smartphone you think it is useful , right ?
    Last edited by marcus; 23-12-19, 10:30.

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  • scouser59
    replied
    I agree that people in general spend too much on smart phones ,only recently I was forced to get one for local banking reasons , Mandiri wouldnt let me use my laptop anymore for internet banking. . So no choice unfortunately .
    Waze is a great app ,I dont get lost anymore and I can buy tokens for pln ,so its a little more convenient .
    But I miss the keyboard on my old BB , I find flat screen keyboard not ergonomic .

    Leave a comment:


  • marcus
    replied
    Originally posted by atoopishai View Post
    (a) Everyone is naive mate, ...

    (b) It is also very proud to say you are not naive. It is similar to saying you don't need help, or you don't need education. You might as well say you don't need food as well.

    (c) Everyone, everywhere, at anytime could use a bit more knowledge about what's happening ...

    (d) And you can use your laptop to skype your mother without the smartphone. There is no need to use Whatsapp, ...

    (e) And I don't actually spend any money to use my brick phone. It currently has no SIM in it.

    (f) ... I think the reason is you may not feel comfortable to admit the way you have been doing things is perhaps not the best or brightest ...

    (g) "Who is this person to tell me what's what..." Of course, many react proudly and defiantly, and then the learning and growing stops.

    (h) ... There is only ONE truth and it applies to everyone, all the time, and everywhere, without exception. But you won't find this little tidbit on FB ...

    (a) dictionary.com , naive : having or showing a lack of experience, judgment, or information; credulous .
    Yes , nobody knows about everything , but I meant that I am not naive in most of the important subjects applicable to my life style .

    (b) You understood me wrongly . Of course everybody needs help sometimes and I am always trying to improve myself .

    (c) I agree .

    (d) I know about Skype (free Skype to Skype) , but my mother doesn't have a computer and also doesn't know how to use one too . She didn't have a smarthphone too , so I used a VOIP similar to Skype (but cheaper) to call her landline phone . I started to use this VOIP in my laptop but now I changed because it works better in the smartphone . Now my mother lives with my older sister who has a smartphone with Whatsapp , but I still use the VOIP to call old relatives who still use only landline phone . I know that when between smartphone to smartphone there are many options besides Skype and Whatsapp , but I use Whatsapp because most people in my country and in Indonesia are also using Whatsapp (sometimes you have to do what others do) .

    (e) Can you tell us what exactly you do with your brick phone and what you will do with it when in Indonesia ?

    (f) I try to take the best/brightest decisions/actions , and I don't have any problem in admitting things that I don't do well .

    (g) You undertood me wrongly again . I am not like that .

    (h) Can you tell us what is this ONE truth ?
    Last edited by marcus; 22-12-19, 15:56.

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  • atoopishai
    replied
    Everyone is naive mate, it is the pinnacle of human ignorance. It is also very proud to say you are not naive. It is similar to saying you don't need help, or you don't need education. You might as well say you don't need food as well. Everyone, everywhere, at anytime could use a bit more knowledge about what's happening around them, by them, to them and through them.

    And you can use your laptop to skype your mother without the smartphone. There is no need to use Whatsapp, you might as well use Facebook, too. Because they are similar companies that have nearly monopolized the way we communicate with each other. And I don't actually spend any money to use my brick phone. It currently has no SIM in it.

    You should also be with me for #1, I think the reason is you may not feel comfortable to admit the way you have been doing things is perhaps not the best or brightest. This is where pride comes in. "Who is this person to tell me what's what..." Of course, many react proudly and defiantly, and then the learning and growing stops.

    All these companies, not just Facebook are manipulating the way we communicate, absorb information and even hold opinions. I was against Facebook back in 2005, when it was still new. Back then. almost nobody was against it, now you see more people are waking up. It's like that with EVERYTHING popular. Smartphones, Amazon, Google, etc...I feel the same way about countries and governments. If you are against one form of control systems (i.e. Saudi Arabia), I fail to see how you can support another type (European Union). Or the USA. It is all bad, and nothing good in any of the systems or philosophies we promote or advertise. Especially the biggest lies, repeated enough times, become personal truths for me. As if there is such a thing as personal truth. It's made up. There is only ONE truth and it applies to everyone, all the time, and everywhere, without exception. But you won't find this little tidbit on FB. They usually block or filter what they don't like their subscribed masses to read about. A way of protecting the herd from information that would otherwise rattle them. We are basically treated like livestock by our corporations. Only there to work for them. Pay taxes. And then become old and die, to make room for a new generation of replacements.

    And yes the camera on the smartphone is one of the reasons I don't want one. Have you noticed how in love people are with themselves compared to when you were a kid, for example? Youtube is full of people making out with their screens on a daily basis, this is narcissism. Remember pokeman game, how addictive it was, how many people died in road accidents because of obsession with their devices. The selfie culture is a result of cameras on phones. And it isn't just a phone, it is an entire entertainment system in your pocket, irradiating your genitals with microwave and electromagnetic radiation. At low levels for NOW, but in the future, the intensity of these devices will increase, and you will see even greater forms of enslavement to these insidious devices. We are both a little older, I think, so we pick and choose our poisons a little carefully, but young people, especially in high school and university are far less aware, and most just subscribe as a herding mentality, in order to fit in with their trendy friends, many of whom pick up on these habits from the mainstream media (more corporations that cooperate with one another) mostly in a bid to patronize us to products and services we don't really need. Many of which harm us, both physically, and mentally. But also emotionally and spiritually.

    And don't forget about animal rights, despite the information out there, people still financially support massive food and agro corporations that mutilate livestock in the millions (and in the case of chickens. in the billions) every year in the US alone. You can imagine the world stats are even worse. People are ignorant and naive about almost everything. The situation isn't getting better, mostly since entertainment culture via devices doesn't educate people about what's actually going on, rather how they should be thinking about it, or more often, unaware completely.

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  • marcus
    replied
    Originally posted by atoopishai View Post
    (1) I blame on all counts the person who being naive enough to subscribe to these smartphones, ...

    (2) I also have a low viewpoint for Facebook, ...

    (3) People are too duped by their corporations. It is like the ultimate control system ...

    (4) You can see, despite all this information online, people are still ignorant, and even getting dumber by the decade. Especially young people.

    (1) I use my smartphone mostly to cal my mother , relatives , and friends using Whatsapp or paid VOIP company (a lot cheaper than using your brick phone) . I am certainly not naive .

    (2) In this I am with you .

    (3) In general I agree that corporations/manufacturers are fooling us , making us to buy things that : we don't need , or with too many functions when we just use few of them (more functions mean more expensive + more prone to fail) , ...
    Examples :
    - I remember long ago when TVs were 4 x 3 display , manufacturers started to sell streched 16 x 9 (or similar) and made a system to distort/strech the TV signals originally received in 4 x 3 format .
    - Now the manufacturers want to sell more expensive smart HD/high definition TVs when most of us are watching non HD content .
    - Smartphone comes with (for example) cameras that I don't need but have to pay for them anyway . Every year its operating system becomes bigger , requiring bigger : processing power , memory and battery .
    - Pay TV companies sell per package . I use to buy a 50 channels package when I only watch 5 of them .
    - Simple shirts are mostly manufactured with pictures/writtings/brand's name on them which increase their cost (I don't like but sometimes I have not much different options) .
    - Every year car manufacturers change their models to increase the price . My last car had no power steering , no automatic transmission , no powered windows , ... but now they all have these things . All these additional things make the car less safe , heavier , and requiring more maintenance .
    ........

    (4) I agree that despite having access to internet most people are ignorant in many important subjects , like : eat health food/how to be health , financial planning/investing , politics/good governance , how to grow children/good manners & behavior , polution/invironment protection , citizen responsibility/laws/regulations , ...


    ----------------------------------------------------


    I think the world needs more customer protection laws/regulations , and you are hurting yourself by being so negative .
    Last edited by marcus; 22-12-19, 10:06.

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  • atoopishai
    replied
    I blame on all counts the person who being naive enough to subscribe to these smartphones, also blame the corporations that produce them and promote them to naive people who buy them. I don't blame the actual phone since it is just a tool built by people to shape other people's viewpoints, etc..I also have a low viewpoint for Facebook, and other large digital tech corporations. But the people are so proud of these devices, it is hard not to fault them. So the blame is on people, both the consumer and the corporation. People are too duped by their corporations. It is like the ultimate control system (for a people who still believe they are free). I never subscribed to these delusional philosophies. You can see, despite all this information online, people are still ignorant, and even getting dumber by the decade. Especially young people.

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  • marcus
    replied
    I agree that many people spend too much time on their smartphone , but it seems that you are blaming the smartphone instead of blaming the people's behavior .


    Originally posted by atoopishai View Post
    ... I am still not sure if I will need 1 or 2 SIMs, since I may need to use the internet on my laptop (and talk on the phone) at the same time, so one SIM in the Mifi and another SIM in the nokia brick phone I have.
    I guess that if your brick phone has no WiFi or Bluetooth capability then you will need 2 SIMs . In this case , one SIM may be only a data SIM (one that comes with xyGB "kuota") and the other only for call/sms (one that is only the empty SIM or one that comes already with Rp5'000 , Rp10'000 , ...credit (here called "pulsa" - so anywhere in the street you can buy "pulsa" , which usually you may tell the vendor "mau isi pulsa , Rpxy'000") .

    Now it is mandatory to register any SIM . Registering requires your passport , but I think street vendors do it for you even without the passport .

    For adding data credit in an old SIM also requires activation (better ask the street vendor to do it for you too) .
    Last edited by marcus; 23-12-19, 08:34.

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  • atoopishai
    replied
    I don't like (or want) a smartphone, that is why I travel with a laptop workstation, and mifi. I can't stand people who are always on their phones (or with their phones). It is like it is an extension of their body (like a puppet they carry around with them). So when you meet someone new, within seconds, you meet their phone, too. It is a really sad state of affairs in the world of humans (and their smartphones). Nothing smart about it, if you ask me. But thank you for trying to help me. I am still not sure if I will need 1 or 2 SIMs, since I may need to use the internet on my laptop (and talk on the phone) at the same time, so one SIM in the Mifi and another SIM in the nokia brick phone I have.

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  • marcus
    replied
    Originally posted by atoopishai View Post
    Thanks, but the phone I have an old style nokia brick phone (3G) it is discontinued.

    So it is time already to buy a new phone , right . Do it now , so you don't need to bring the Mifi . By the way when I was looking to buy a 4G modem , my phone was 3G too , so I bought a refurbished 4G phone instead of a new modem or Mifi , because just a new usb 4G modem was around Rp500'000 (US$36) and I bought the phone for the same price , so besides the 4G modem function I got a smartphone function too (I recommend it to you too : Xiaomi Redmi 2 (memory 1G/8G) refurbished @ Rp450'000 now - its battery is small and you may need a powerbank (battery) which you can buy here one with 10'000 Ah capacity @ around Rp90'000) .

    Online Shopping in Indonesia :
    www.shopee.co.id
    www.bukalapak.com
    www.tokopedia.com
    www.lazada.co.id
    www.blibli.com
    www.mataharimall.com
    ....
    Last edited by marcus; 22-12-19, 06:33.

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  • atoopishai
    replied
    Thanks, but the phone I have an old style nokia brick phone (3G) it is discontinued.

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  • marcus
    replied
    Originally posted by atoopishai View Post
    Thanks, is my device 4G compatible? It doesn't mention that in the specs
    As you said , it is a "3G HSPA+ 2100/900Mhz" . As far as I understand , if a manufacturer specifically says it is a 3G modem it is because it is 2G + 3G . If the manufacturer says it is a 4G modem , then it is 2G + 3G + 4G .

    By the way , I don't recommend 3G . I was using a 3G modem until some months ago , but could not do internet banking with it anymore . First I taught it was a problem of my bank , but later I bought a 4G modem and I found out that it was a problem of the 3G network speed .

    If your cell phone is 4G capable , you can use internet in your computer through "tethering"/phone as modem : directly with an usb cable , or wireless by Bluetooth or Wi-Fi (by cable is more energy efficient) .


    https://www.lifewire.com/what-is-tethering-2377921

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  • atoopishai
    replied
    Thanks, is my device 4G compatible? It doesn't mention that in the specs

    Leave a comment:

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