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  • 5 year requirement for teachers, confused!

    Hi Everyone,

    I'm new here and I'm thinking about looking for work in Indonesia for the upcoming academic year. I'm currently working in Bangkok and will finish in my current position at the start of April 2018. I have been teaching ESL in some form or another for 8 years and have previously worked in Jakarta and Taipei. I also hold a CELTA and I've just finished an MA in TESOL. I should say that I worked in ESL for 3 years in language centres and I'm currently half way through my 5th year in a K12 school teaching EAL ("English as an Additional Language) in a private catholic school.

    Now, my question is how exactly is the 5 years experience rule applied? I've trawled posts in this' forum and on other websites like Dave's ESL and come up a bit stumped. Some posters suggest that the MA along with five years experience will be enough and other sources say that the five year requirement is supposed to have been accrued after completion of the MA.

    I've seen job postings by language centres, e.g. by Wall St here:
    http://www.tefl.com/job-seeker/jobpa...826&countryId=
    and they just say 'five years experience to be proved by references' but it's not entirely clear what they mean in terms of the specificity of the experience. Does the experience need to be specific to the type of school that you are applying for? (e.g. 5 years language school experience to work at Wall Street/5 years in a primary school to work in a primary school). I appreciate that this is a bit of a random question. I've been sending a prospective CV off to different schools, and they seem to need to check with their HR to see if my qualifications and experience meet the requirements.

  • #2
    Originally posted by lrbrugby View Post
    ... how exactly is the 5 years experience rule applied? ... Does the experience need to be specific to the type of school that you are applying for? (e.g. 5 years language school experience to work at Wall Street/5 years in a primary school to work in a primary school) ...

    The 5 years work experience is a requirement from Manpower's Regulation (*PerMen no.16 , year 2015) applicable to all foreign workers , and there is no further detail in the Regulation . The Immigration Regulation (PP n.31 , year 2013) states that work Visas/KITAS are for work experts (except Directors & Commissioners) , so I understand that this 5 years minimum limit refers to a specific kind of work , like : 5 years in asphalt road's construction , 5 years in designing high buildings using steel structure , ... I suppose that how far this specific limit detail goes depends on the officers who will deal with the case .

    One Forum member (SVP_recruitment) said that , yes , 5 years experience teaching primary school to be eligible to teach in a primary school (see below) .

    Be informed that this work experience must be related to your academic credentials too (see example below also from SVP_recruitment)

    Although the rules are clear , we still hear some cases where foreigners got jobs without being eligible . Besides some foreigners doing wrong things themselves , I guess some schools want to lower the cost and also end up doing some wrong things (sometimes with the foreigners' participation) . But be alerted that the Indonesian Legislators already issued a stringent Las to decrease this wrongdoings (see below) , although up to now we have heard only about cases of deportation/blacklisting of the foreigners in wrong work situations .

    * Another recent Regulation (Permen no.10 year 2018) states the same


    ------------------------------------------

    from http://www.livinginindonesiaforum.or...able-next-year
    [posted by gerrardtorres , Jan 2016
    When you say 5 years experience, is this 'post-grad' or just 5 years experience?]


    (Answer by SVP_recruitment)
    [Five years experience as a full time teacher in the role and level as the job advertised...

    eg: If you are applying to be a Primary school teacher, you must have minimum 5 years FT experience as a Primary School teacher in a formal school. (English language schools, or tutoring do not count)

    eg2: If you are applying to be an Secondary school English teacher, you must have minimum 5 years FT experience Secondary school English teacher and you degree must be in English or English Literature.

    So, I guess yes, it would have to be post grad. Because a part time lecturing or tutoring job while you are completing your degree does not count.]


    ------------------------------------------

    from http://www.livinginindonesiaforum.or...sa-requirement
    [Originally posted by kimchidon , Jun 2016
    I know the educational ministry has cracked down in recent years and are now pretty strict in only hiring teachers whose degrees are in the same field as their profession. Does anyone know if you can use an MA just the same as a BA to meet this requirement, assuming your BA is in, say, communications?]


    (Answer by SVP_recruitment)
    [Yes, you can. But often the interpretation can be tricky, because they usually want to see 5 years of teaching experience post teaching degree.

    But a Ba in Communications, with a Dip Ed in Teaching or Education followed by a Ma in English Literature would be suitable, if you had 5 years of teaching English experience if you wish to be an English teacher.

    Or a Ba in Tourism followed by a Master Science Education with 5 years of teaching experience in Science would be ok to be employed as a Science teacher.]


    ------------------------------------------

    UU6 - year 2011
    Article 122
    Shall be punished with imprisonment of five (5) years and fined at most Rp500.000.000, 00 (five hundred million rupiah):

    a. any foreigner who deliberately misuse or engage in activities not in accordance with the intent and purpose of the Visa/Stay Permit (#Work Permit + KITAS) given to him/her;

    b. any person who ordered or provide opportunity for the foreigner to misuse or engage in activities inconsistent with intent or purpose of the Visa/Stay Permit (#Work Permit + KITAS)given to him/her.


    Article 123
    Shall be punished with imprisonment of five (5) years and fined at most Rp500.000.000, 00 (five hundred million rupiah):

    a. any person who knowingly gives a false document or false or falsified data or untrue statement with the intent of obtaining Visas or Stay Permit (#Work Permit + KITAS) for himself/herself or others;

    b. any foreigner who deliberately use the Visa or Stay Permit , as referred to in item a above , to enter and / or stay in Indonesia.

    # included by the poster
    Last edited by marcus; 03-09-19, 12:15.

    Comment


    • #3
      If you are married to an Indonesian, are these requirements often not required? Is there a general kind of "open work permit" for foreign spouses of Indonesian nationals? I ask because I am a qualified teacher (secondary social studies) with less than five years of experience who is considering moving to Indonesia to marry my long time girlfriend.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by el_duderino View Post
        (1) If you are married to an Indonesian, are these requirements often not required?

        (2) Is there a general kind of "open work permit" for foreign spouses of Indonesian nationals? ...

        (1) Unfortunately Manpower Department still didn't issue a Regulation to implement the "right to work" stated in the Law for foreigners holding KITAS or KITAP sponsored by Indonesian spouse .
        Non-officially , the Manpower Department is still requiring the 5 years work experience for all foreigners working for PT companies (schools , relatively big companies , ...) .

        (2) No .


        http://www.livinginindonesiaforum.or...esian-and-work (work under Article 61 of UU no.6/2011)

        Comment


        • #5
          Wow, that is really unfortunate. I have now read up on these laws about the KITAS/KITAP, seems really fucked up. Even if I am married and then if I want to get a job, I have to transfer my visa from spouse to employer. I think that in most countries, the spousal visa supercedes that of an employer. Then again, I'm really only familiar with developed Asian countries, such as South Korea, Taiwan and Japan. Seems the only real benefit of being married is that if I quit or otherwise lost my job, I'd have the spousal visa to fall back on.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by el_duderino View Post
            (a) ... Even if I am married and then if I want to get a job, I have to transfer my visa from spouse to employer ...

            (b) Seems the only real benefit of being married is that if I quit or otherwise lost my job, I'd have the spousal visa to fall back on.

            (a) No , you don't have to do that . Your employer just need to get your Work Permit/IMTA if you have already a KITAS or KITAP sponsored by the Indonesian spouse .

            (b) So , besides not requiring a Work KITAS , you can work informally without an IMTA (in a small family business , for example - see link in post no.4 above) .

            Comment


            • #7
              Would it be possible to set up my own consultancy for services such as tutoring, IELTS test prep, college application assistance, etc under the spousal visa? What are PT PMA and PT ?

              I have contacted a couple dozens international schools and only gotten one reply so far and it was not good, bluntly stated that there are no exceptions to the requirements set forth by the MoE.

              Perhaps I can hold out hope for an emergency position and that I would be in the right place at the right time for that or give supply (substitute) teaching a go. Perhaps some schools might need a teacher to teach English to support staff or something else. Just hoping I can find a way in some how.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by el_duderino View Post
                (I) Would it be possible to set up my own consultancy

                (Ia) for services such as tutoring, IELTS test prep, college application assistance, etc under the spousal visa?

                (II) What are PT PMA and PT ?

                (III) Perhaps I can hold out hope for an emergency position and that I would be in the right place at the right time for that or give supply (substitute) teaching a go. Perhaps some schools might need a teacher to teach English to support staff or something else. Just hoping I can find a way in some how.

                (I) Not yours , but your Indonesian spouse's consultancy . This because only Indonesians can own small/medium business . There is another restriction : for the Indonesian spouse to do that , it would be necessary to have an official agreement of wealth separation . But this restriction has not been enforced , as far as I know .

                (Ia) I think that any informal service is possible (for example , no certificate to be issued) , otherwise you would need to comply with the Indonesian Education Minister's rule too .

                (II) I don't know much , so in few words : PT is usually the biggest kind of businesses for Indonesians , PT PMA is the PT equivalent for foreigners (but with more restrictions , like minimum capital invested , not allowed in all business types , ..) .

                https://id.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perseroan_terbatas (definition of a PT company - if necessary , Google Translate)


                (III) I don't know about the details of the kind of work you will be allowed to do formally , as it depends on the Education Minister's rule .

                There are 2 exceptions to the 5 years experience rule , but for an IMTA of 6 months maximum , not extendable (with restrictions of work types too) : The Temporary IMTA (up to 6 months) , and the Emergency IMTA (for only a month) . For more details please read Articles 46 , 47 , 48 , and 49 of PerMen no.16 , Tahun 2015 (search for it at the internet , my copy of it cannot be copied/pasted) .
                Last edited by marcus; 30-04-18, 10:32.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Thanks Marcus, that's very helpful, especially the part about the up to 6 month IMTA, whatever that is.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Marcus, I know this is getting off topic now, but if I wanted to do business in Indonesia, would it be possible to set up a business Stateside and then source products from Indonesia, exporting them to the US or elsewhere?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Why you are not searching online for a better job ?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by lucyjohn987 View Post
                        Why you are not searching online for a better job ?
                        internet has various of fake or tries to convince you they have great position and stuff but when i got there to do a job interview, it;s not what that said
                        Magento PWA
                        App Marketing Made Easy

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