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Why I renounced Islam … (& challenge every Muslim)

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  • #16
    Originally posted by sul1995 View Post

    The difference is, a Muslim renouncing his religion is risking his life whereas a Christian renouncing his is usually safe (even in Christian majority countries).

    Propaganda or not, it is testimony of real people who have genuinely converted.
    Excuse me? Do you see many executions in Indonesia based on not following the rules of Islam to the letter? Please, get real. Does it happen in some very limited parts of the world? Yes it does. Is it universal truth of the Muslim world? Absolutely not but these guys are trying to make it look so.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by El_Goretto View Post

      Excuse me? Do you see many executions in Indonesia based on not following the rules of Islam to the letter? Please, get real. Does it happen in some very limited parts of the world? Yes it does. Is it universal truth of the Muslim world? Absolutely not but these guys are trying to make it look so.
      Quite right. Beliefs and Actions are two quite different things.
      [COLOR=#333333][FONT=Verdana]Some love to milk Apostate.[/FONT][/COLOR]

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      • #18
        Originally posted by sul1995
        The difference is, a Muslim renouncing his religion is risking his life whereas a Christian renouncing his is usually safe (even in Christian majority countries).

        Propaganda or not, it is testimony of real people who have genuinely converted.
        I personally know 5 people who have converted out of Islam in Indonesia, and as far as I can tell the harshest thing they have had to face was some idle gossip.



        Originally posted by sul1995 View Post

        The book will probably not be available (banned) in Indonesia, I’m sure Periplus will not sell it. 'Son of Hamas' is never on the stores of Periplus, I had to buy it from Amazon.
        If it is anything like his article, no big loss.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by El_Goretto View Post

          Excuse me? Do you see many executions in Indonesia based on not following the rules of Islam to the letter? Please, get real. Does it happen in some very limited parts of the world? Yes it does. Is it universal truth of the Muslim world? Absolutely not but these guys are trying to make it look so.
          Sorry, I was not talking about Indonesia (which is still “okay”). Let’s face it, a Muslim converting to Christianity has to face more risk (if he is in a Muslim majority country, e.g. Pakistan) than a Christian converting to Islam (even if he is in a Christian majority country, e.g. UK). Both may be at risk (from religious fanatics), but one more than the other.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by sul1995 View Post

            Sorry, I was not talking about Indonesia (which is still “okay”). Let’s face it, a Muslim converting to Christianity has to face more risk (if he is in a Muslim majority country, e.g. Pakistan) than a Christian converting to Islam (even if he is in a Christian majority country, e.g. UK). Both may be at risk (from religious fanatics), but one more than the other.
            Yes, but both have a risk. If you really think that is a reason to discourage adherence to religion, then please do so. Just remember to be fair and include them all.

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            • #21
              Well some Christian sects can be pretty awful if you leave, the Plymouth Bretheren totally ostracize any family member, never speak or associate with them again, bit hard on some families

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              • #22
                Total ostracizing from Brethren Assemblies might be considered a blessing.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Happyman View Post

                  Yes, but both have a risk. If you really think that is a reason to discourage adherence to religion, then please do so. Just remember to be fair and include them all.
                  Religion is fine, but fanatics are bad news, whatever their religion. Nevertheless, not all fanatics are horribly violent, some will even give you his other cheek .

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Anglian View Post
                    Well some Christian sects can be pretty awful if you leave, the Plymouth Bretheren totally ostracize any family member, never speak or associate with them again, bit hard on some families
                    At least not hunted down, or in any physical danger.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by dafluff View Post

                      I personally know 5 people who have converted out of Islam in Indonesia, and as far as I can tell the harshest thing they have had to face was some idle gossip.
                      Originally posted by sul1995 View Post

                      At least not hunted down, or in any physical danger.
                      I don't know any personally, come to think of it, but have been introduced to a few and some has prettttty interesting stories to tell over a cuppa. This is many years ago.

                      One was a Malaysian where they have some kind of re-education camp or counseling as they call it where they are 'counseled' away from all other 'distractions' for a few months.*
                      Another was like Anglian said, except bricks was thrown. :S
                      A few others in more liberal countries had the usual discomfort and social pains. I would think its similar as a homosexual coming out of the closet from a Christian family ( or a meat-eater from a vegan family. :P ) in this day and age.

                      Not sure about physical danger, but definitely not hunted down... atleast that I know personally.

                      *Did a quick search, http://www.reuters.com/article/us-ma...30943420070709 apparently its true. But this is a 2007 article so it may have changed by now.

                      Bonus Link:
                      https://www.minnpost.com/global-post...ians-indonesia
                      "The problem is the double standard. Christians who convert to Islam are far more open about their switch since they don’t face persecution, he said. Muslims who become Christians, however, are often subject to threats of violence from their families and the community."
                      Guess it may be still be abit more than social stigma for some cases. I think it really depends on where they are located in Indonesia.

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                      • #26
                        My cousin Raymond was a crack head for years - he got scooped out of the gutter by some Christian charity who got him off the shit and converted him to Catholicism. Now he is a right Christian head banger, I met him last time I was back in the UK, and within 5 minutes of listening to his bible bashing bullshit I came to the conclusion that I liked him better as a crack head.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by ScooterIndo View Post
                          My cousin Raymond ... within 5 minutes of listening to his bible bashing bullshit I came to the conclusion that I liked him better as a crack head.
                          You made my day. It's the short, sweet stories that end with a quick burst of irony that strike me as hilarious every time.

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                          • #28
                            it's so funny i found that all the things happened, ISIS, 911,Mid east war, Iran Iraq war, sunni vs syiah war, Jokowi as president, Ahok as governor etc have to be connected to Israel and America...
                            a choir group from Indonesia that planned to make a tour around US, and somehow they could not get their visa. ... and they started to say bad things about US. that US hates them as most of the are moslem, they could not enter US because of Israel didnt approve their coming etc...
                            a colleague of mine, we used to work for an american company, but in the same time, he hates america as he said that america is a christian country that would go to hell etc. he put Osama bin laden picture as his screen saver in the office when 911 happened. ...
                            and now his son is studying in Purdue..
                            i wonder why


                            Originally posted by sul1995 View Post

                            Another Israeli propaganda (?) ... the 'Son of Hamas' http://www.livinginindonesiaforum.or...tive-New-Book?
                            dont judge a book by it cover. judge it by it price. good books are expensive

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                            • #29
                              In a similar vein, I used to get "America and the west hates Islam, that's why they started the war in Iraq" from my brother in law.
                              I tried to have a sensible conversation with him on the topic but add the fact he is a fucking retard to being a religious fanatic and I soon gave up.

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                              • #30
                                blaming someone else and play as victim is the role they like.
                                dont judge a book by it cover. judge it by it price. good books are expensive

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