Surabaya to become alcohol free city

[Davita]

We need to reduce alcohol's harm. I don't think anyone here disagrees with that, I think we can all acknowledge that just as religion has a body count and pathological elements so does alcohol. It's a complicated problem, one that isn't easily resolved by wholesale bans. But can we reduce the harm of both? Of course we can. We reduce religion's harm by embracing secularism, we reduce alcohol's harm by education, taxation, enforcement and controlled access.

The above quote regarding reducing alcohol's harm is correct and most responsible people abide by that...it is a few, usually young and immature, that need this guidance.
However, no amount of debate seems to qualm those who demand total abstinence. Especially those with a strong religious conviction which overrides reason...be it any religion.

[atlantis]

The excuse of protecting the health of people is (another) hypocritic bullshit. Just for information, those who peddle the ban on alcohol are willing to accept that some region (majority non muslim such as Bali and Northern Sulawesi for example) get exempted of this silly ban, along with some places (like hotel berbintang, karaoke...etc) in the archipelago.

The ban is just an attempt to impose more religious dogma to the nation. It's so pathetic to hear the promoters of this law publicly saying that Oh God no! It is only for the good of the people of Indonesia and, behind the curtain, negotiate exemption hoping to have their religiously inspirated law passed. WTF? If it is really for health reason, shouldn't people staying in 5 stars hotels or people living in Bali or Manado be protected from this terrible scourge?

[Davita]

[SIZE=3][SIZE=2] 1. u made analog abt to ban all muslim in USA.
2. I do respect you, if u feels annoying cause some one constant preaching the Koran. If u don't believe so leave and ignore it.... :-)..[/SIZE]

[/SIZE]

1. You need to re-read what I wrote....my analogy asked if there was any agreement with a potential President of the USA...who said it. The hypothesis of my analogy was to determine if any objective is achieved by arbitrary bans...and my answer is it doesn't.

2. If the subject was about the Koran, as many debates here are, I'm not interested and do ignore... but this subject is about banning alcohol which 'be happy' constantly diverts to preach her interpretations of the Koran on all sorts of subjects, like Syria and Saudi, which have nothing to do with the subject matter....but I do like Wasabi....

BTW I respect you too....

[be happy]

Are you saying that the collapse of the World Trade Center twin towers, where 2,763 people died .....was not caused by 10 Muslims?

The question is, "What kind moslem who did that tragedy?"
They are khawarij....and they only work to their boss....

I'm reading it about 911.....still reading. Could you read it and give some comment?
Behind 911 - Is there Conspiracy???
https://googleweblight.com/?lite_url...1DlXSSL4kjUG9g

[be happy]

1. You need to re-read what I wrote....my analogy asked if there was any agreement with a potential President of the USA...who said it. The hypothesis of my analogy was to determine if any objective is achieved by arbitrary bans...and my answer is it doesn't.

2. If the subject was about the Koran, as many debates here are, I'm not interested and do ignore... but this subject is about banning alcohol which 'be happy' constantly diverts to preach her interpretations of the Koran on all sorts of subjects, like Syria and Saudi, which have nothing to do with the subject matter....but I do like Wasabi....

BTW I respect you too....

Because you bring 'my Religion" to discussion....and you seem misunderstanding about Islam...

You thought that moslem is ISIS, Taliban, or al-Qaeda....without knowing out there a lot of moslem don't like to ISIS, Taliban, and al-Qaeda.....
Your words seem like hating....and judging all of moslem like that without knowing differencies between them and majority moslem. So I explained it to you....to open your eyes...and ask to you to observe about Wahabism

You should protest "about suicide bom" to al-Qaeda...or Wahabi/Salafi who follow al-Qaeda.

not to moslem Asy'ary-Maturidy (majority moslem) in Indonesia.... We arenot Wahabi or Salafi....you know.

[Happyman]

The question is, "What kind moslem who did that tragedy?"
They are khawarij....and they only work to their boss....

I'm reading it about 911.....still reading. Could you reading it and give some comment?
Behind 911 - Is there Conspiracy???
https://googleweblight.com/?lite_url...1DlXSSL4kjUG9g

I'll comment. You posted rubbish. The degree to which that page is rubbish astonishes me. Well done for collecting the rubbish. I just wish you hadn't stopped by on your way to the tip to let us all see it.

[Davita]

Because you bring 'my Religion" to discussion....and you seem misunderstanding about Islam...

You thought that moslem is ISIS, Taliban, or al-Qaeda....without knowing out there a lot of moslem don't like to ISIS Taliban, and al-Qaeda.....
Your words seem like hating....and judging all of moslem like that without knowing differencies between them and majority moslem. So I explained to you....to open your eyes...and ask to you to observe about Wahabism

You should protest to al-Qaeda...or Wahabi/Salafi who follow al-Qaeda.

not to moslem Asy'ary-Maturidy in Indonesia.... We arenot Wahabi....you know.

And you seem to think Arak (which young Indonesians die from) is like a rich Cabernet or a Cinquièmes Bordeaux and wish to arbitrarily ban both...like throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Same principle as your constant nonsense of who is a real Muslim and who isnt. Argue your philosophy of that with someone who cares. To me anyone who prays in a Mosque is a Muslim just like anyone who prays in a Church is a Christian and my maid, who prays in her Temple, is a Bali Hindu.

[Happyman]

Because you bring 'my Religion" to discussion....and you seem misunderstanding about Islam...

You thought that moslem is ISIS, Taliban, or al-Qaeda....without knowing out there a lot of moslem don't like to ISIS Taliban, and al-Qaeda.....
Your words seem like hating....and judging all of moslem like that without knowing differencies between them and majority moslem. So I explained it to you....to open your eyes...and ask to you to observe about Wahabism

You should protest "about suicide bom" to al-Qaeda...or Wahabi/Salafi who follow al-Qaeda.

not to moslem Asy'ary-Maturidy in Indonesia.... We arenot Wahabi....you know.

If you go back and reread the analogy that started this whole mess it is clear that the poster did not "misunderstand" about Islam. The point of the analogy was that banning all people from consuming alcohol is a bad idea. Banning all Muslims is used as the analog because the writer believes it is also a bad idea. Isn't it strange how much like trolling it can seem when you fail to understand the contents of a post?

[Davita]

If you go back and reread the analogy that started this whole mess it is clear that the poster did not "misunderstand" about Islam. The point of the analogy was that banning all people from consuming alcohol is a bad idea. Banning all Muslims is used as the analog because the writer believes it is also a bad idea. Isn't it strange how much like trolling it can seem when you fail to understand the contents of a post?

Thanks Happyman...you clearly got the point that others clearly missed...but maybe it's because of language difficulty so I continue trudging my explanations.

[be happy]

And you seem to think Arak (which young Indonesians die from) is like a rich Cabernet or a Cinquièmes Bordeaux and wish to arbitrarily ban both...like throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Same principle as your constant nonsense of who is a real Muslim and who isnt. Argue your philosophy of that with someone who cares. To me anyone who prays in a Mosque is a Muslim just like anyone who prays in a Church is a Christian and my maid, who prays in her Temple, is a Bali Hindu.

So if there is a bad Bhuddis, and he killed someone because of wrong intepretation....should we say all of the Bhuddis bad?
Come on....a lot of sects in Bhuddis....we should observe what kind of sect who did it....

Your analogy is strange....

[Davita]

So if there is a bad Bhuddis, and he killed someone because of wrong intepretation....should we say all of the Bhuddis bad?
Come on....a lot of sects in Bhuddis....we should observe what kind of sect who did it....

Your analogy is strange....

You really have become unhinged with your ridiculous commentary...please get help from your Imam or, better still, a psychologist.

[be happy]

I said to you Davita....why you only protest for "ban alcohol" just to moslem?

I said to you...a lot of non moslem who ever have bad experience with Napza being volunteers to educate people about "Bahaya Narkoba dan Napza" in Indonesia....

But you only protest to moslem....

I said to you....I only ban alcohol just for my self and my family. But if the goverment want to ban it because of many reports from many Lembaga Sosial, or from BNN.....I don't mind....

I hope you understant my language (my bad english)

[be happy]

You really have become unhinged with your ridiculous commentary...please get help from your Imam or, better still, a psychologist.

Am I wrong if I observe the sect? I don't want judge person before I know the real story behind it

[be happy]

I'll comment. You posted rubbish. The degree to which that page is rubbish astonishes me. Well done for collecting the rubbish. I just wish you hadn't stopped by on your way to the tip to let us all see it.

Don't be angry...
That link is only for them who want to seek the truth...
No problem if you think that is Rubish...

It's Ok brother....

[Jaime C]

It's Ok brother....

Everytime you say this, I hear Hulk Hogan's voice in my head. (Shudder)