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  • Originally posted by Happyman View Post
    Cute, but clearly not true. Does every generation of every family become worse? Yeah... no. If you base your thoughts on such sayings you'll end up saying other "open ended" phrases like, "we must save our family". Is there some reason why you are more worthy to save them than they are to save you?
    Off course brother.....because this is my responsible...

    "Cinta ibu sepanjang jalan, cinta anak sepanjang galah."
    A mother will always care and save to their children.....
    Last edited by be happy; 23-05-16, 21:15.
    [FONT=comic sans ms]"The body needs food, the souls needs Zikr, the mind needs fikr, and the heart should always be doing shukr"[/FONT][FONT=comic sans ms][/FONT]

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    • Originally posted by be happy View Post
      I mean....how to ban people.who use alcohol in.a country that has more than 200 million people?
      I was making a joke. Try it sometime - a sense of humor adds much zest to life. And most religions have no problem with the occasional laugh.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by be happy View Post
        How about they who live in the forest???
        A lot of them still belief Animism and Dinamism.

        Do you think, if there isn't religion...people.willnot interested to Gold and oil, and not killing each other because of it???
        Ummm yes there are churches in the middle of the forest where three people live.

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        • [COLOR=#606060][FONT=Tahoma]“Do you suppose that abuses are eliminated by destroying the object which is abused? Men can go wrong with wine and women. Shall we then prohibit and abolish women?” [/FONT][/COLOR]

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          • Originally posted by R Cameron View Post
            [COLOR=#606060][FONT=Tahoma]“Do you suppose that abuses are eliminated by destroying the object which is abused? Men can go wrong with wine and women. Shall we then prohibit and abolish women?” [/FONT][/COLOR]
            Women is a human being
            Alcohol isnot a human being

            No women no cry....you know....hehe (just kidding)
            [FONT=comic sans ms]"The body needs food, the souls needs Zikr, the mind needs fikr, and the heart should always be doing shukr"[/FONT][FONT=comic sans ms][/FONT]

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            • Originally posted by Puspawarna View Post
              Not what you said. You said:


              [COLOR=#333333]
              Face it ...17% is not "most" of anything.

              [/COLOR]
              for the first , my comment was reffered for what Davita said about deaths caused suicide bomb.

              If u see the link below, it was the 3rd biggest cause of death and illness in eu behind tobacco and blood pressure. and More than 1 in 4 traffic accident deaths on EU roadsis caused by drink-driving. for the record also "Harmful alcohol use" is a cause of some 60 differentdiseases and conditions, including lung disease,breast cancer, mental and behavioural disorders,gastro-intestinal conditions, cardiovascular problems,and foetal and reproductive disorders

              http://ec.europa.eu/health/ph_determ...ctsheet_en.pdf


              and for the second the link u wrote was a research out from investigation from 6 country of the europe. So 17% was stil high, if u also includes 22 others country e.g. austria,belgium,denmark,,etc.


              sorry i won't to analogy anything for the "most" of anything , my comment is reffered to Davita who was tried to analogy many deaths in the USA caused by suicide bomb of yelling Allahu akbar.
              And muslim there is nothing to do with this. this is like a joke in here like comedian said: in europe the most powerful word is Allahu akbar...so many ppl will be scare and related to suicide bomb...
              [COLOR=#1D2129][FONT=helvetica]
              [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1D2129][FONT=helvetica]The road doesn't go where you planned. It goes where it's written to be[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1D2129][FONT=helvetica]
              [/FONT][/COLOR]

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              • and i can't believe if u guys still have some paradigm or judgement about muslim and Islam while u are living in the most diversity country such as Indonesia...and Indonesian muslim is the most generous - in my opinion. ( ok there is a minority of radicalism muslim).

                I can understand if u are living in your small city from a some country..so they scare of muslim and scare of propaganda.

                Hmmm, maybe it will be different if propaganda comes from jehovas..so u will be think it's okay....

                I really clear can be see most of ppl in this forum agains be happy.
                this is just my though!
                [COLOR=#1D2129][FONT=helvetica]
                [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1D2129][FONT=helvetica]The road doesn't go where you planned. It goes where it's written to be[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1D2129][FONT=helvetica]
                [/FONT][/COLOR]

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                • Originally posted by sunflower20 View Post
                  my comment is reffered to Davita who was tried to analogy many deaths in the USA caused by suicide bomb of yelling Allahu akbar.
                  And muslim there is nothing to do with this.
                  Are you saying that the collapse of the World Trade Center twin towers, where 2,763 people died .....was not caused by 10 Muslims?

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by sunflower20 View Post
                    and i can't believe if u guys still have some paradigm or judgement about muslim and Islam while u are living in the most diversity country such as Indonesia...and Indonesian muslim is the most generous - in my opinion. ( ok there is a minority of radicalism muslim).

                    I can understand if u are living in your small city from a some country..so they scare of muslim and scare of propaganda.

                    Hmmm, maybe it will be different if propaganda comes from jehovas..so u will be think it's okay....

                    I really clear can be see most of ppl in this forum agains be happy.
                    this is just my though!
                    and WTF has this post have anything to do with the Indonesian Gov'ts plan to prohibit alcohol...that's the debate. Forumers are not against 'be happy'... we are debating around her absurd reasons, and they seem to change with every post, for prohibiting alcohol.

                    Never mind the By-Law introduced by the Surabaya legislature..... just read today's Jakarta Post's front page where the Central Gov't are debating a motion, introduced by the Muslim parties in government, to prohibit alcohol nationwide.

                    The argument proferred is always around the health aspects but no intelligent person would swallow that crap...it is all about religion as any alcohol is haram to a Muslim. The only issue about the health and welfare of the average youth dyiing from alcohol is the poison arak they drink from illicit stills...it has nothing to do with genuine alcohol such as a nice Bordeux or Pinot Noir with dinner...that's just an excuse to get past the Pancasila laws.
                    Last edited by Davita; 23-05-16, 23:56.

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                    • u make analog as we should ban all muslim caused of many deaths in the USA from suicide bomb, as question. Any statistic about that? and mind your word!!!
                      [FONT=Georgia]The assumption that America was attacked by Muslims on 9/11 also lies behind the widespread perception of Islam as an inherently violent religion and therefore of Muslims as guilty until proven innocent. This perception surely contributed to attempts to portray Obama as a Muslim, which was lampooned by a controversial cartoon on the July 21, 2008, cover of [/FONT]The New Yorker[FONT=Georgia].[/FONT]
                      https://davidraygriffin.com/articles...uslims-on-911/


                      And if i can tell u the biggest problem in the USA is not the muslim...1.obesitas , 2. the gun's rules....

                      And yess there is nothing to relate with the government plant to prohibit alcohol...if u call opinion as an absurd reason...why not just leave it!...that's freedom of speech...if u doesn't agree u can use a good argumentation based on the realistic and true fact! &again mind ur own words!
                      Last edited by sunflower20; 24-05-16, 00:03.
                      [COLOR=#1D2129][FONT=helvetica]
                      [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1D2129][FONT=helvetica]The road doesn't go where you planned. It goes where it's written to be[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1D2129][FONT=helvetica]
                      [/FONT][/COLOR]

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                      • [COLOR=#333333]and WTF has this post have anything to do with the Indonesian Gov'ts plan to prohibit alcohol...that's the debate. Forumers are not against 'be happy'... we are debating around her absurd reasons, and they seem to change with every post, for prohibiting alcohol.[/COLOR]
                        it's doesnt mean i agree also what her opinions...and i just trying to be fair...

                        [COLOR=#333333]Another simple analogy question...[/COLOR]
                        [COLOR=#333333]If you still advocate alcohol kills people and therefore should be banned...[/COLOR]
                        [COLOR=#333333]would you also advocate that Bali should ban Muslims because Islamists killed 202 and injured 240 in the Bali bomb in 2002?[/COLOR]

                        [COLOR=#333333]Isis, Isil, Daesh has only been a force since 5 years...the twin towers in New York were toppled by 19 Islamist militants on 9/11/2001.[/COLOR]

                        [COLOR=#333333]We are not mad at Muslims...they seem to be doing a fine job of that themselves. e.g. Shia versus Sunni. [/COLOR]
                        [COLOR=#333333]We non-muslim just don't want to die, or be dictated, by the result of blatant brainwashing.[/COLOR]
                        this analogy as not simply as u though!!!!
                        [COLOR=#1D2129][FONT=helvetica]
                        [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1D2129][FONT=helvetica]The road doesn't go where you planned. It goes where it's written to be[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1D2129][FONT=helvetica]
                        [/FONT][/COLOR]

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                        • @ sunflower post 3115 and 115.

                          I'm sorry sunflower...I cannot comprehend your command of English well enough to try to explain about 'principles' that I allude to in my analogy comments....but let me try
                          If a person walks into a bank with a gun and demands money by threat...it is a crime.
                          If a person walks into a bank and finds money on the floor and picks it up to keep...it is a crime.
                          Same principle.

                          If alcohol is deemed to kill people such that it should be banned then if Islamists kill people in Bali...shouldn't they be banned...same principle.

                          BTW it isn't 'be happy's' opinions that most of us object it is her constant preaching the Koran that's annoying.
                          Last edited by Davita; 24-05-16, 00:21.

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                          • [SIZE=3][SIZE=2]my point is your analog abt "principles" from this thread as i mentioned before is not so simple like that. u made analog abt to ban all muslim in USA.

                            what i can see in there just stigmatized from your analog. as a muslim, we are also victims of the religious fanaticism. I won't call them 'islamist' like isis,isil, etc..because they don't representate "Islam and muslim at all".
                            That's why i gived a comment in this thread and give some of data /statistic abt the alcohol, since our first thread about alcohol. ( i hope this is give a clue for u, why i gived my comment in this kind of debate).

                            I do respect you, if u feels annoying cause some one constant preaching the Koran. If u don't believe so leave and ignore it.... :-)..[/SIZE]

                            [/SIZE]
                            [COLOR=#1D2129][FONT=helvetica]
                            [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1D2129][FONT=helvetica]The road doesn't go where you planned. It goes where it's written to be[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1D2129][FONT=helvetica]
                            [/FONT][/COLOR]

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                            • Originally posted by El_Goretto View Post
                              Therefore, I propose that we ban all religions. All of them.

                              It is such a good solution that we should expect the practice of religion to cease immediately after the ban is enacted, right?

                              And Dan, this one is for you, and please don't take offense because this whole post of mine is not serious and only tongue-in-cheek: We don't need religion right? The world wouldn't stop spinning overnight if religion was banned, unlike with road vehicles, so let's ban religion. Or maybe make it look less attractive?
                              Why wait? You can live in the present of North Korea, a country that really has banned all religions (unless you count Juche as a religion).

                              Now, the make it look less attractive part is certainly aligned with what we've been doing, and sure enough we see a steady decline in religious observance in the West. I don't say that usually as a matter of policy, not all countries are like France (a country that bans face veils and some *public displays of religion*) or Turkey (ditto). Most countries have just seen a gradual decline because of, well, I suppose education. Strangely enough, your tongue in cheek comment was pretty well aligned with what I have been saying:

                              We need to reduce alcohol's harm. I don't think anyone here disagrees with that, I think we can all acknowledge that just as religion has a body count and pathological elements so does alcohol. It's a complicated problem, one that isn't easily resolved by wholesale bans. But can we reduce the harm of both? Of course we can. We reduce religion's harm by embracing secularism, we reduce alcohol's harm by education, taxation, enforcement and controlled access.

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                              • I don't live in Surabaya. I don't drink alcohol often. This ban on alcohol doesn't effect me directly. But, it does make me a bit sad. It's just one more in a long chain of "doh" moments I've had in the last year or so. We've had he very public conviction of a foreigner for a heinous crime... without evidence, we've had government officials persecuting minorities and the public doing so as well (you can even pick between religious and secular causes for persecution, we've had both) and we've had the ketua DPR involved in a corruption scandal. It's like we are trying to run a (Don't) Visit Indonesia publicity campaign here. The country has real problems, and the senate is debating banning alcohol. If you are going to legislate morality, how about starting with something everyone can agree on, like a meaningful sentence for those caught stealing from the public coffers? No, instead we focus on a made-up, make-believe, non issue. This is just plain stupid.

                                Feels like we are sliding back down the hill called progress, and some of you guys are yelling "whee!"

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