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  • #76
    Originally posted by be happy View Post
    But I don't like Davita's narrow thought about ISIS and moslem...

    ISIS killed people by suicide bombing....
    Why don't ban ISIS?
    ISIS also being troublemaker in moslem society...

    If you don't agree with " banning to alcohol"...why don't you go to Social Departement or BNN....and ask them to stop education about dangerous of Napza....a lot of people from other religions also being volunteers to give education about "Dangerous of Napza'....and they support to ban it, because they ever had bad experience because of it (their sister, brother, or children died because of it), or they have serious ill because of it...

    Why you only mad to moslem?

    Why you always think that all of moslem are ISIS or Taliban or al-Qaeda....???
    You should go to picnic.....
    Another simple analogy question...
    If you still advocate alcohol kills people and therefore should be banned...
    would you also advocate that Bali should ban Muslims because Islamists killed 202 and injured 240 in the Bali bomb in 2002?

    Isis, Isil, Daesh has only been a force since 5 years...the twin towers in New York were toppled by 19 Islamist militants on 9/11/2001.

    We are not mad at Muslims...they seem to be doing a fine job of that themselves. e.g. Shia versus Sunni.
    We non-muslim just don't want to die, or be dictated, by the result of blatant brainwashing.

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    • #77
      My... My...

      (- self censored post -)

      Let's get a sloki or two of this fine rum rather than answering and taking the risk to be banned...

      Comment


      • #78
        May I join you A... reading this thread is enough to turn anyone to alcohol...
        :holdingupBIGglass:
        Cicak Magnet

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by bad_azz View Post
          May I join you A... reading this thread is enough to turn anyone to alcohol...
          :holdingupBIGglass:
          Better hurry-up drinking that glass B_A. If be-happy and her motley lot have their way it might soon be a criminal offence punishable by jail-time.

          Comment


          • #80
            haha... I am not in Surabaya (and I have copious amounts of yeast-not all of which is growing in my toenails ) ... and I have an ignore button (Only time I read certain posts is if someone choses to "reply" to them)
            I am not anti Islam, any more than I am anti Christian or anti agnostic ... I am anti spout drivel endlessly to the point of boring the arse of people tho...
            Cicak Magnet

            Comment


            • #81
              Originally posted by Davita View Post
              Another simple analogy question...
              If you still advocate alcohol kills people and therefore should be banned...
              would you also advocate that Bali should ban Muslims because Islamists killed 202 and injured 240 in the Bali bomb in 2002?

              Isis, Isil, Daesh has only been a force since 5 years...the twin towers in New York were toppled by 19 Islamist militants on 9/11/2001.

              We are not mad at Muslims...they seem to be doing a fine job of that themselves. e.g. Shia versus Sunni.
              We non-muslim just don't want to die, or be dictated, by the result of blatant brainwashing.
              That is your narrow thought...maybe because of deviant information.
              Imam Samudra and his friends that bombed in Bali on 2002, he is Wahabi. Wahabi Jihadi....

              You tottaly wrong if you make same thing between Wahabi (minority) and Sunni Asy'ary-Maturidi (majority in the world)

              So please read about Wahabism....so you can know that they arenot from majority moslem...

              Shia versus Sunni...that's also wrong.
              But the true is Wahabi versus Shia
              But your journalist always write on the newspapper about Shia VS Sunni....it's because the Wahabi also call them self as Sunni.

              But Wahabi or Salafi and majority moslem in the world have different aqeeda.
              Majority moslem who following majority schoolars believe that "God Exists without a place", they accept bid'ah hasanah, learning Tasawuf, etc.

              But the Wahabi or Salafi, they believe that " God is on the sky" (only textual), all of bid'ah is astray, they against Tasawuf, againts Sufi, and always insult other moslem who don't want to follow them.as ahlu bid'ah (astray), syirk, musyrik, grave worshiper, and other fitna.


              Wahabi and Shia ...they always kill each other...
              Wahabi is Nashibi (group that hate to ahlubayt )
              Shia is Rafidhi (group that hate to the shahabah), but there is shia don't hate shahabah....but they also kill each other with Wahabi.



              But the real Sunni (Asy'ary-Maturidy)....we never killed shia nor Wahabi. Because we love shahabah and love to ahlubayt, and we love ummah.
              We think, fighting between Wahabi and Shia is bad...and only make fitna to ummah.

              We are on the middle.....not extrem to left, and not extrem to right...


              Wahabism has came out from 2 centuries ago in Saudi Arabia. They killed majority moslem at that time...especially who following majority schoolar (Sufi). But our schoolars never angry to them....and always teach to forgive them. But this fitna is more big now days...because those of Wahabi or Salafi funded by Saudi Arabia spreading their doctrin in Indonesia.
              They always insult majority moslem as a grave worshiper, ahlu bid'ah, syirk and musyrik....
              Please read "Memoar of Hempher'....you will understand after read it. You can googling on internet....

              And about 911 tragedy...you should read, what kind of sects were they? If there asociates with Taliban, or al-Qaeda....they are Wahabi. But they working for their boss to be a reason to attacked Iraq, and killed 1 million people in Iraq and take out "Oil" from there.

              ISIS, ISIL, Daesh.....they are Salafi or Wahabi Jihadis. They came from Jabrah al-Nusrah, Free Syrian Army, al-Qaeda and variant of Wahabism that fighting in Syria....they recruited many Wahabi from many countries..to joint with them to fight with Assad's army. And they are funded by their boss....(you can googling who is their boss).

              I'mnot Assad fan....because I'm Sunni Asy'ary-Maturidy.
              I know that Assad was wrong....but called all of terrorist (fake jihadis) to Syria, only make innocent people in Syria more suffer. After those fake jihadist came to Syria....morethan 100.000 people killed in Syria.....and getting worse after the monster ISIS came out....

              We only waiting for God's help...waiting for Imam Mahdi. Because if we do something, the fitna getting bigger and getting worse.
              We only pray to God....to give good solution for the ummah, and educate our children to not following Wahabism and Syiah Rafidhi...
              Last edited by be happy; 23-05-16, 18:42.
              [FONT=comic sans ms]"The body needs food, the souls needs Zikr, the mind needs fikr, and the heart should always be doing shukr"[/FONT][FONT=comic sans ms][/FONT]

              Comment


              • #82
                be_happy, I'd like to propose this ban immediately after banning alcohol:

                Many people die due to religion.
                Some people abuse religion and turn to extremism (see ISIS).
                It is safe to assume that many of these extremists started with moderate religion before becoming extremists.

                Therefore, I propose that we ban all religions. All of them.

                It is such a good solution that we should expect the practice of religion to cease immediately after the ban is enacted, right?

                And Dan, this one is for you, and please don't take offense because this whole post of mine is not serious and only tongue-in-cheek: We don't need religion right? The world wouldn't stop spinning overnight if religion was banned, unlike with road vehicles, so let's ban religion. Or maybe make it look less attractive?

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                • #83
                  ^^I hear John Lennon starting to sing...

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                  • #84
                    honestly speaking , I find the whole "extreme religious thing" whichever variety rather tedious , "everything in moderation" for me is a reasonable basis for consumption of alcohol and, let us not forget it has been proven to benefit our health and well being, never mind the pleasure of a good bottle of wine .

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Heard him a lon[COLOR=#333333]g[/COLOR] time a[COLOR=#333333]g[/COLOR]o....

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by El_Goretto View Post
                        be_happy, I'd like to propose this ban immediately after banning alcohol:

                        Many people die due to religion.
                        Some people abuse religion and turn to extremism (see ISIS).
                        It is safe to assume that many of these extremists started with moderate religion before becoming extremists.

                        Therefore, I propose that we ban all religions. All of them.

                        It is such a good solution that we should expect the practice of religion to cease immediately after the ban is enacted, right?

                        And Dan, this one is for you, and please don't take offense because this whole post of mine is not serious and only tongue-in-cheek: We don't need religion right? The world wouldn't stop spinning overnight if religion was banned, unlike with road vehicles, so let's ban religion. Or maybe make it look less attractive?
                        Do you think...if you can ban religion, the people willnot suffer?
                        War isnot because of the religion.....but because of egoism.
                        A lot of Papuanese they don't have religion....but they also killing each other....
                        [FONT=comic sans ms]"The body needs food, the souls needs Zikr, the mind needs fikr, and the heart should always be doing shukr"[/FONT][FONT=comic sans ms][/FONT]

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by be happy View Post
                          Do you think...if you can ban religion, the people willnot suffer?
                          War isnot because of the religion.....but because of egoism.
                          A lot of Papuanese they don't have religion....but they also killing each other....
                          Do you think if you ban alcohol the people who abuse it will not suffer? Do you think people will not find other ways to find alcohol?

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by Davita View Post
                            be happy...
                            You advocate that in Indonesia many deaths are caused by alcohol.....so it should be banned.

                            In the USA many deaths are caused by suicide bombers yelling "Allah Akbar"....which identifies Islam.

                            Do you therefore advocate that Donald Trump is also correct..... "Ban all Muslims from the USA"?
                            Davita, in Europe...most of car's accident was caused from alchohol. if u scare of suicide bombing or terror..actually proved by statistic in here that many ppl in europe are died caused of they drive when they were drinking alcohol or under alcohol's affect then u died from terror or suicide bomb. So u are compared that in the USA many deaths are caused by suicide bombers...that's not true....1. obesitas problem which caused many diseasse like heart attack, diabetes,etc 2. gun's rules

                            u also need to be aware that in europe there is "promile rules" that people allow to drive. if over 1,3 promille and u get cut so u'll get ticket an pay some amount to the government.

                            Don't know in the USA..i do believe alcohol also one of the problem in there, maybe not a big like obesitas problem in the USA.

                            **
                            I more concern if Indonesian's people is "mature" enough to drink alcohol and not drive they car in the traffict as jakarta...can't imagine what would be happen....
                            and u do realize how's the system in Indonesia for this kind of stuff..

                            let's we try to look the case last time while a go,where there was one of son from artist/singer/famous person had killed many people, because he didn't have license and drive a car, and he was under his age to use a car. Case was closed in the "perjanjian damai".

                            The law is n't strong enough to counter all the negative thing will happen while alcohol to be more familiar in Indonesia..unlike in the USA, people is "mature" enough and the law is really strict for that.
                            [COLOR=#1D2129][FONT=helvetica]
                            [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1D2129][FONT=helvetica]The road doesn't go where you planned. It goes where it's written to be[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1D2129][FONT=helvetica]
                            [/FONT][/COLOR]

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                            • #89
                              Originally posted by sunflower20 View Post
                              Davita, in Europe...most of car's accident was caused from alchohol.
                              I'm not saying you are flat-out wrong, but such an easily verifiable fact should be supported with objective statistics. It is my understanding that multiple factors contribute to car crashes. The condition of the driver (who may be inattentive for many reasons that have nothing to do with alcohol - cell phones, stress, a crying kid, etc.) is only ONE reason that traffic crashes occur. Poorly maintained roads, bad weather, mechanical failure, and a host of other reasons make a very significant contribution to crashes.

                              If "most" European car crashes are the result of alcohol-induced impairment, let's see the numbers! (You could be right, but I tend to think the situation is more complex than you are giving it credit for. So - let's see the numbers, and perhaps I'll eat my post.)

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Huh. This is interesting. This source says that 17% of crashes involve alcohol. I would have thought it was higher, myself.

                                http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3861814/

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