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  • Originally posted by El_Goretto View Post
    Moderator note: please avoid writing full posts in Indonesian as not all our members are fluent enough to understand. Especially since this thread has been started in English, please continue in English. Thank you.
    OK..OK...maafkan saya mas....
    I'm sorry...
    [FONT=comic sans ms]"The body needs food, the souls needs Zikr, the mind needs fikr, and the heart should always be doing shukr"[/FONT][FONT=comic sans ms][/FONT]

    Comment


    • Originally posted by be happy View Post
      Saya mengajari anak saya untuk.menjauhi alkohol...dengan.memberikan banyak alasan.

      Saya katakan, dalam pengalaman hidup saya bergaul dengan orang yang sering minum alkohol....mereka akan rentan terhadap nilai2 baik yang lainnya.
      Misal, mereka akan mudah melakukan perbuatan yang tidak baik antara laki-laki dan perempuan (maksud sy freesex).
      Contoh lain, dengan suka minum alkohol....akan membuat kita malas untuk ibadah. Shalat jadi malas....
      Contoh lain, jika suka minum alkohol.....orang akan lebih mudah lari pada alkohol jika ia sedang dalam masalah yang berat. Sedangkan kita harus lari pd Allah jika kita punya berbagai masalah, apalagi jika masalah berat....
      Itu hanya sedikit contoh yang saya ajarkan pada anak
      This does not respond to my point. I already acknowledged that you most likely had moral reasoning of your own to share with your children. My point was - if you have reasons to give your children about why they shouldn't drink, it should not matter if there are people in the world who drink. So what if your kids say "but mommy, it's not fair." Many things in life are not fair, and as a parent you should be prepared to handle that.

      Besides, if you truly pass along your values, you children won't be saying "it's not fair that they get to drink and I don't." Thanks to your wise guidance, they won't WANT to drink, right?

      Comment


      • We are all humans, made in God's image. If I, an average person, raised by average parents, can avoid being an alcoholic or grow up without morals despite being surrounded by alcohol drinkers, why can't be happy and her children do the same? Under her reasoning, why can't other Indonesians?

        I know plenty of Asians and native Americans in the American Northwest surrounded by alcohol drinkers and they are just fine. They still go to church. They are well adjusted and contributing members of society.

        So why can't you? Why do your children and other indonesian children need extra protection? Do you think yourself as Indonesian parents to be less capable than the rest of the world? Do you think your children as Indonesian children to be so morally fragile that they need more protection than the rest of the world?

        I know many other indonesian parents and children exposed to people drinking alcohol and they're just fine. Why are you different and why do you think Indonesian children and youth are different than the ones I know?

        Comment


        • I did start a thread yesterday re a Miras production plant disguised as a laundry, the stock of well prepared and labeled bottles was quite amazing, it seem obvious a well planned operation the Mafia would have been proud off, unfortunately the quality is somewhat lacking due to Indonesian and tourist who drink it sometimes turn up dead, a product risk, now this little business are surprisingly illegal, you wouldn't think so by the number of dead each week, compared with legal alcohol, Miras wins every time, I feel in comparison the impact on Indonesian Muslims of legal drinking is not that much in comparison, Indonesian I feel have better chances of dying from other factors without even seeing a can of Carlsberg, like motor cycle accidents, crystal meth, poor health care, poor diet, and surprising by hard work, plus many, many more things. I've been to probably more Muslim countries than most, Maroco, Eygpt, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq Malaysia all the gulf states,the 3 where alcohol-officially was off limits was Saudi, Sudan and Iran, you know no real obvious drink problems except Saudi Arabia, so banners get a life, the world isn't sinking into and alcoholic oblivion, when you look at crystal meth, heroin even Ganga are bigger problems, who supples most Ganga, good heaven it's Acheh the pinnacle of Islam in indonesia

          Comment


          • I make no apologies for posting underneath from today's Jakarta Post which originated from 'The Republika' (The newspaper known, and described itself, as a publication for Muslim community).
            It just shows how chaotic and confused legislators in RI are.
            Some say banning alcohol negatively impacts investment. Some say it's common sense. Others say prohibition involves 'not only religion' but also security. Many talk about the 'looming danger'.
            No-one has mentioned health....and the subject of police enforcing existing law, on illegal alcohol production, isn't even discussed.

            The following only cancels the Gov'ts a recent proposal to scrap Regional By-Laws in favour of a National Law. The proposal for a National Law on banning alcohol, from the Islamic Parties in Gov't, is currently at the debate stage.....we need to wait and see what that outcome beholds as Indonesian politics is at work....


            "The Home Ministry on Monday announced the cancelation of plan to revoke or revise bylaws concerning liquor. Ministry spokesman Dodi Riyadmadji said liquor had a considerable negative impact on society, so the revocation should be postponed.
            We welcome this correct decision and call it a victory of common sense. The government has turned out to consider the fate of citizens amid the looming danger of liquor, rather than merely thinking of investment.
            The ministry’s previous discourse on the planned annulment and revision of bylaws on the matter followed President Joko Widodo’s agenda to revoke around 3,000 regional regulations that hamper investment. There are 167 bylaws on liquor, 42 of which concern its prohibition, 81 its control and 44 levies and permits. Eight provinces have issued such regulations. Papua and Aceh have even completely banned liquor in their regions.
            The prohibition involves not only religion but also has to do with security. However, the postponement of the revocation of the bylaws is pending the House’s debate on the liquor bill.
            House members will discuss the bill as the future legal umbrella for alcoholic drinks. At the House, the second test will take place to ascertain whether our legislators have enough common sense not to produce laws that suppress existing regional rules. Common sense will hopefully triumph.
            — REPUBLIKA, JAKARTA"

            Comment


            • Common sense will triumph, pigs might fly

              Comment


              • Originally posted by be happy View Post
                Saya mengajari anak saya untuk.menjauhi alkohol...dengan.memberikan banyak alasan.

                Saya katakan, dalam pengalaman hidup saya bergaul dengan orang yang sering minum alkohol....mereka akan rentan terhadap nilai2 baik yang lainnya.
                Misal, mereka akan mudah melakukan perbuatan yang tidak baik antara laki-laki dan perempuan (maksud sy freesex).
                Contoh lain, dengan suka minum alkohol....akan membuat kita malas untuk ibadah. Shalat jadi malas....
                Contoh lain, jika suka minum alkohol.....orang akan lebih mudah lari pada alkohol jika ia sedang dalam masalah yang berat
                .Sedangkan kita harus lari pd Allah jika kita punya berbagai masalah, apalagi jika masalah berat....
                Itu hanya sedikit contoh yang saya ajarkan pada anak
                So if your kids drink alcohol they will have free sex ??? Its so obvious that you don't drink as your complete ignorance on the subject is totally astounding. If you drink you will be lazy to pray - exactly because Islam is an all controlling doctrine that does not allow for freedom of choice and after all, after a big night drinking, do we really want to get up at silly o'clock and do prayers - again why drink alcohol when, it may actually lead to people making their own choice.

                If young people drink alcohol they will get drunk/drink it every time they have a big problem ?? Again with this statement you are yet again showing your ignorance on the subject.

                For you to spout such bullshit on the subject is hypocritical given that you are obviously a very pious Muslim, why is it you cant accept that other people differ in their views and opinions and may not actually be wrong ??

                Comment


                • I think young kids can get drugs easier than alcohol, much more readily available and cheaper than booze, plus watching school kids smoking is awful.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Anglian View Post
                    ....
                    They backed off pretty quick a while back when it was suggested banning Tobaco, the workers got a bit irate and threatens demos,

                    Originally posted by Anglian View Post

                    They backed off pretty quick a while back when it was suggested banning Tobaco, the workers got a bit irate and threatens demos,

                    i think for banning Tobaco was another issues. As i understand majority of muslims in Indonesia, they have never agree for banning of tobaco. they have a different meaning about tobacco rules from Islam precpective. Some imam said haram, some makruh and some said it's okay to consume tobaco.

                    that's why the issues for banning tobaco was never succed and i bet it won't be a problem for majority of muslim in Indonesia.

                    Back to alcohol. they are all agreed and know it's haram/prohibited based on Islam perspective...as u said if he is muslim, so he should not drink alcohol.

                    [FONT=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][COLOR=#1d2129]And Davita about your comment #173 ....
                    [/COLOR][/FONT]
                    [COLOR=#333333]It was introduced by minority Islamic parties in government but u should remember the majority of legislators are muslims and they know really clearly the rules about alcohol. the fact is, if they won't support the ban, so they will face the morality sanktion from majority of muslim.
                    That's why i m pretty shure it was not Islamist parties fault at all.

                    And i agree with the article of jp that they also need to considerate to make a stricter control on alcohol in order to protect the younger generation or make more long education program about the effect of alcohol.


                    In my opinion , that they are not ready yet for that's kind of regulations and strict rules for the young generations...it wasn't like in Europe or most western country, the young kids they can't buy alcohol and tobaco, if they go to the supermarket and ask for that kind of stuff, the seller or cashier will ask their id card or something like that.

                    In Indonesia if the young kids comes to the small market like a small shop/warung, the seller will never ask how old are u or i guess they won't care as long as they can get benefits and sells their stuff.

                    so....my opinion sadly it won't be happen because the budget are zero for that's kind of education.
                    [/COLOR]
                    [COLOR=#1D2129][FONT=helvetica]
                    [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1D2129][FONT=helvetica]The road doesn't go where you planned. It goes where it's written to be[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1D2129][FONT=helvetica]
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                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by ScooterIndo View Post
                      So if your kids drink alcohol they will have free sex ??? Its so obvious that you don't drink as your complete ignorance on the subject is totally astounding. If you drink you will be lazy to pray - [COLOR=#b22222]exactly because Islam is an all controlling doctrine that does not allow for freedom of choice and after all, after a big night drinking, do we really want to get up at silly o'clock and do prayers - again why drink alcohol when, it may actually lead to people making their own choice. [/COLOR]

                      Where this kind of the knowledge you get from Scooter? and tell me do u already make any study about that...can u give me some examples that Islam does not allof for freedom of choice after u've been living in Indonesia.


                      and for the records, it's also u can't go to pray while u are fuld/drunk...cause u can't be concentrate to do a pray and for what u're doing...:-D
                      Last edited by sunflower20; 27-05-16, 19:07.
                      [COLOR=#1D2129][FONT=helvetica]
                      [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1D2129][FONT=helvetica]The road doesn't go where you planned. It goes where it's written to be[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1D2129][FONT=helvetica]
                      [/FONT][/COLOR]

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by tihzho View Post
                        No...not more taxes.

                        How about just banning the sale of alcohol to MUSLIMS? If someone's KTP (ID) shows they're Muslim then its tough luck buddy you can't buy alcohol anywhere.

                        My understanding is this is done in other officially Muslim countries and Indonesia is officially secular, except in Aceh

                        Actually in some european country, i can say Denmark one of, they have a regulations for making a higher taxes for alcohol and cigarettes....but so the danish people have another solutions , they drive away to germany border and buy that stuff in there.
                        So i agree more high taxes...since Malaysia and Brunei / negara tetangga is also has a strict regulations for alcohol. :-)

                        Again..if its sells in the small warung/shop in other city or kampung...so they won't asks u ktp .....it won't be happen.
                        [COLOR=#1D2129][FONT=helvetica]
                        [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1D2129][FONT=helvetica]The road doesn't go where you planned. It goes where it's written to be[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1D2129][FONT=helvetica]
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                        • Originally posted by tokektokek View Post


                          The main problem with alcohol in Indonesia is the consumption of dangerous alcohol, made by people who don't know/care what they are doing and sold cheap. The lack of education needs to be fixed. People need to be educated about the risks from drinking too much alcohol, and how dangerous it is to drink something that has been sold cheaply, with no idea what is in it.

                          For this point i agree with u...people need to be educated... but how and will government put the budget on it, for education and penyuluhan?

                          And for what i understand with all the data i wrote in previous comment long a go....i will be more specifict for denmark, alcohol issues is one of the high priority even alcohol is already exist in dk, and also the problem for harm of alcohol really have a big influence and cost for the welfare system. that's why again in 2015 danish legislatif made a change and gived a high taxes for alcohol and cigarettes.

                          How many millions or billions ppl are living in Indonesia, are they all well educated and know the risk for alcohol.

                          Alcohol are not something already familiar in Indonesia not as in the western countries....10 years ago i saw alcohol just in some hotels/bar and pub. But last year i was in holiday, i could find really easy in mini market and big mall..
                          [COLOR=#1D2129][FONT=helvetica]
                          [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1D2129][FONT=helvetica]The road doesn't go where you planned. It goes where it's written to be[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1D2129][FONT=helvetica]
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                          • Originally posted by sunflower20 View Post
                            Where this kind of the knowledge you get from Scooter? and tell me do u already make any study about that...can u give me some examples that Islam does not allof for freedom of choice after u've been living in Indonesia.


                            and for the records, it's also u can't go to pray while u are fuld/drunk...cause u can't be concentrate to do a pray and for what u're doing...:-D
                            Are you free to drink alcohol in Islam ?? Free to eat pork ?? free to ignore the daily prayers if you feel like it - no you're not, can you question it or make your own decision as a "Muslim" without running contrary to the teachings of Islam - no you cant. Therefore if you choose to drink alcohol or eat pork for example you are breaking the rules, simply as that, no negotiation no debate no questioning it that's the way it has to be if you want to be considered a "real Muslim" however the grey area discussed in a separate thread portrays a different picture in daily life.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Davita View Post
                              Better hurry-up drinking that glass B_A. If be-happy and her motley lot have their way it might soon be a criminal offence punishable by jail-time.

                              i tdon't think its a criminal for u and others who's consuming alcohol. i don't said in any my post that i agree for ban and force to other ppl who's consuming alcohol to not be a consume..... it's ur freedom and that's something i respect nd it's up to u...so feels free to drink a glass wine etc.
                              [COLOR=#1D2129][FONT=helvetica]
                              [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1D2129][FONT=helvetica]The road doesn't go where you planned. It goes where it's written to be[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#1D2129][FONT=helvetica]
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                              • This alcohol nonsense is a Saudi thing, most countries were Islam predominates drinking alcohol is not banned, Muslims either drink or not, up to the individual, Albania even the imams drink, I'm sure Dan can confirm, but I thought the big down on alcohol is wine, no mention of beer, I may be wrong but the proviso is one should no pray drunk, so an occasional beer would be no problem.
                                When I was in KL and Saudi Arabia was building the large mosque, I was told by several Malaysians part of the deal was that Malaysia would go dry, they didn't, also I think that these religious parties here in Indonesia are being funded by Saudis to turn Indonesia into a wahabi state, the Saudi have screwed up with Deash, the have unleashed a devil they cannot control, hopefully they will go bankrupt and then be unable to buy off weak minded idiots

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