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  • Originally posted by johntap View Post
    I second Anglian's request.

    To 'be happy': your presence would be more appreciated here I am sure if you engaged with the actual substance of this thread. Why not show the forum how well you can analyse the articles which the Jak Post (and other newspapers in Bahasa) on this rather tricky topic? It seems that you don't even read some of the postings here??
    I'm sorry....actually, I don't want to speak about religion.

    But if someone bring "the Religion" and say "macam-macam" and menjadikan Religion sebagai bahan olokan in the debate....I will "Meladeninya"

    I think you can speak Bahasa....so you can understand what I mean....
    [FONT=comic sans ms]"The body needs food, the souls needs Zikr, the mind needs fikr, and the heart should always be doing shukr"[/FONT][FONT=comic sans ms][/FONT]

    Comment


    • Originally posted by johntap View Post
      I second Anglian's request.

      To 'be happy': your presence would be more appreciated here I am sure if you engaged with the actual substance of this thread. Why not show the forum how well you can analyse the articles which the Jak Post (and other newspapers in Bahasa) on this rather tricky topic? It seems that you don't even read some of the postings here??
      Perhaps we could get a "The Great Sociopolitical Debate Thread" to go with the religion one?

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Happyman View Post
        It's just one more in a long chain of "doh" moments I've had in the last year or so. We've had he very public conviction of a foreigner for a heinous crime... without evidence, we've had government officials persecuting minorities and the public doing so as well (you can even pick between religious and secular causes for persecution, we've had both) and we've had the ketua DPR involved in a corruption scandal. It's like we are trying to run a (Don't) Visit Indonesia publicity campaign here. The country has real problems, and the senate is debating banning alcohol. If you are going to legislate morality, how about starting with something everyone can agree on, like a meaningful sentence for those caught stealing from the public coffers? No, instead we focus on a made-up, make-believe, non issue. This is just plain stupid.

        Feels like we are sliding back down the hill called progress, and some of you guys are yelling "whee!"
        Precisely. This is a non-issue in comparison to the myriad other problems this country faces. Sadly though, ‘morality’ gets more attention than reality.

        Comment


        • Anyone have a link for the "national alcohol ban" story in the Jakarta Post that was mentioned? I can't find it.

          Comment


          • Front page of yesterday's Jak Post hard copy, if that helps. Long article.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Happyman View Post
              Anyone have a link for the "national alcohol ban" story in the Jakarta Post that was mentioned? I can't find it.
              I was going to reread it and make some comments but it seems to have disappeared, it basically banning all alcoholic drinks from Papua, I'm not sure but I think Papuans like Australian Aboriginals and the American Indian are more susceptible to the effects of alcohol, but I'm afraid banning it totally won't solve the problem, just increase production of moonshine

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Anglian View Post
                I was going to reread it and make some comments but it seems to have disappeared, it basically banning all alcoholic drinks from Papua, I'm not sure but I think Papuans like Australian Aboriginals and the American Indian are more susceptible to the effects of alcohol, but I'm afraid banning it totally won't solve the problem, just increase production of moonshine
                Oh, I did see the article about Papua. One of the earlier posts suggested there was a national level law looming. Google news search also returns nothing. Perhaps I should have subscribed to the Post, if I wanted my curiosity satisfied.

                Comment


                • Here is today's Jakarta Post's editorial....

                  "In the wake of horrifying reports about rapes and gang rapes, lawmakers have a lot of support to pass a bill to regulate or ban liquor. Home Minister Tjahjo Kumolo has denied earlier reports that he would revoke regional bylaws restricting or banning alcohol. “The ministry thinks that it is important to have bylaws banning alcohol,” Tjahjo was quoted as saying on Sunday.
                  The government has adopted a stance in contradiction to the 2014 regulation on liquor sales signed by then trade minister Rachmat Gobel.
                  [COLOR="#FF0000"]Ahead of the Ramadhan fasting month, such a law and bylaws banning liquor would surely be popular policies.[/COLOR] In March, Governor Lukas Enembe said Papua’s ban on alcohol was decided on“to save indigenous Papuans from becoming extinct”, given that so many deaths were blamed on liquor, mainly among the productive age group. Papuan women have also long cried out for liquor bans to ease domestic violence.
                  However, Minister Tjahjo should refrain from grabbing quick fixes for crimes and problems such as rape and drunk driving. The old debate about alcohol being a main driver of rape, for instance, does not explain why many men who drink do not rape, despite many recent cases blamed on perpetrators said to have consumed alcohol.
                  Here we have another sign of today’s penchant for rapid solutions, with no thorough study of the issues at hand. Minister Tjahjo should focus instead on his concern over overlapping bylaws, including those that affect the production, sales and distribution of liquor. He explained that many bylaws overlapped one another and several had not followed the procedures and standards of issuing bylaws.
                  Without enough evidence that banning liquor would not lead to smuggling and the illegal sale of drinks — and worse, to the increased production of the bootleg booze that has led to several deaths of locals and foreign tourists in recent years — regulating and restricting the sale of liquor would be much more feasible for the local and national administrations than a total ban.
                  The deaths of some 40 young people in Yogyakarta alone in the last three months, reportedly after consuming bootleg drink, is only one example of consumers who will persistently seek liquor that they can afford. Producers have experimented by combining the likes of paint thinner, mosquito repellent, sedatives, ethanol and soft drinks among others to come up with the lethal concoctions sold as drinks for as little as US$1. Students have said cheap liquor, or pitching in for a binge, is one way to overcome boredom.
                  The advocates would blame big business and administrations like Batam and Bali for impeding bans on alcohol given their dependence on revenues from tourism and alcoholic drinks.
                  But more effective restrictions to overcome the negative effects of booze could build on local restrictions on its sale. Banning liquor from minimarkets, for instance, would be futile for the supposed aim of protecting the young without checking the IDs of young buyers. Let’s learn from all efforts to restrict tobacco, where even hiking cigarette prices has not significantly toned down the addiction."


                  My red highlight is telling...is it not?

                  Comment


                  • Popular for who, they appear to have no idea on how to tackle the problem, and the problem I see( I'm not an expert) is the sale and production of this bootleg hooch which has gone on for years, most if not all deaths are caused by it,plus blindness, plus banning it will only increase production of bootleg hooch, they seem totally incapable to sort out the problem and just a blanket ban

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Anglian View Post
                      Popular for who, they appear to have no idea on how to tackle the problem, and the problem I see( I'm not an expert) is the sale and production of this bootleg hooch which has gone on for years, most if not all deaths are caused by it,plus blindness, plus banning it will only increase production of bootleg hooch, they seem totally incapable to sort out the problem and just a blanket ban
                      Exactly Anglian.....but getting that message thru' to those who are brainwashed on religious dogma such they haven't the capability of free and reasoned thinking is difficult. It is also more difficult in Indonesia than other nearby Muslim countries due to Indonesian xenophobia and inability to learn from others mistakes...they have to make the same mistakes themselves before it sinks in.

                      Comment


                      • The authorities seem so inept that the only thing they figure out is a blanket ban, you have a corrupt police force who are unable to control traffic, rampant drug use, flagrant disregard of traffic rules, so how effective would a ban be, if the cannot control illegal hooch now they never will.

                        I've seen them on TV destroying 1000s of illegal drink with a steam roller, how do they let it get as bad as that.

                        It's like the old dear who is to be shot for drug smuggling, but the ringleader gets off with 8 years, nobody bats an eyelid,
                        Last edited by Anglian; 24-05-16, 16:20.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Davita View Post
                          Here is today's Jakarta Post's editorial....

                          "In the wake of horrifying reports about rapes and gang rapes, lawmakers have a lot of support to pass a bill to regulate or ban liquor. Home Minister Tjahjo Kumolo has denied earlier reports that he would revoke regional bylaws restricting or banning alcohol. “The ministry thinks that it is important to have bylaws banning alcohol,” Tjahjo was quoted as saying on Sunday.
                          The government has adopted a stance in contradiction to the 2014 regulation on liquor sales signed by then trade minister Rachmat Gobel.
                          [COLOR="#FF0000"]Ahead of the Ramadhan fasting month, such a law and bylaws banning liquor would surely be popular policies.[/COLOR] In March, Governor Lukas Enembe said Papua’s ban on alcohol was decided on“to save indigenous Papuans from becoming extinct”, given that so many deaths were blamed on liquor, mainly among the productive age group. Papuan women have also long cried out for liquor bans to ease domestic violence.
                          However, Minister Tjahjo should refrain from grabbing quick fixes for crimes and problems such as rape and drunk driving. The old debate about alcohol being a main driver of rape, for instance, does not explain why many men who drink do not rape, despite many recent cases blamed on perpetrators said to have consumed alcohol.
                          Here we have another sign of today’s penchant for rapid solutions, with no thorough study of the issues at hand. Minister Tjahjo should focus instead on his concern over overlapping bylaws, including those that affect the production, sales and distribution of liquor. He explained that many bylaws overlapped one another and several had not followed the procedures and standards of issuing bylaws.
                          Without enough evidence that banning liquor would not lead to smuggling and the illegal sale of drinks — and worse, to the increased production of the bootleg booze that has led to several deaths of locals and foreign tourists in recent years — regulating and restricting the sale of liquor would be much more feasible for the local and national administrations than a total ban.
                          The deaths of some 40 young people in Yogyakarta alone in the last three months, reportedly after consuming bootleg drink, is only one example of consumers who will persistently seek liquor that they can afford. Producers have experimented by combining the likes of paint thinner, mosquito repellent, sedatives, ethanol and soft drinks among others to come up with the lethal concoctions sold as drinks for as little as US$1. Students have said cheap liquor, or pitching in for a binge, is one way to overcome boredom.
                          The advocates would blame big business and administrations like Batam and Bali for impeding bans on alcohol given their dependence on revenues from tourism and alcoholic drinks.
                          But more effective restrictions to overcome the negative effects of booze could build on local restrictions on its sale. Banning liquor from minimarkets, for instance, would be futile for the supposed aim of protecting the young without checking the IDs of young buyers. Let’s learn from all efforts to restrict tobacco, where even hiking cigarette prices has not significantly toned down the addiction."


                          My red highlight is telling...is it not?
                          It's only for a month, only on public places like warung, bar...

                          It's only alcohol....you willnot die if you don't drink it for a while
                          Last edited by be happy; 24-05-16, 16:27.
                          [FONT=comic sans ms]"The body needs food, the souls needs Zikr, the mind needs fikr, and the heart should always be doing shukr"[/FONT][FONT=comic sans ms][/FONT]

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by be happy View Post
                            It's only for a month, only on public places like warung, bar...

                            It's only alcohol....you willnot die if you don't drink it for a while
                            I'm sorry to say you just cannot get it into your thick head, you can ban it for as long as you like people will get it, Drugs are banned, Ramadan will make no difference to its use, if someone is that desperate for alcohol over Ramadan they will get a stock in, a ban makes no difference, Muslims don't drink, if a person drinks and says he is a Muslim he isn't, and that's his problem not yours, get a life and stop dripping, you sound like an old maid

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by be happy View Post
                              It's only for a month, only on public places like warung, bar...

                              It's only alcohol....you willnot die if you don't drink it for a while
                              Rahmadan is for a month...the law, if passed, will be permanent. The Minister thinks he can get the law passed as it is Rahmadan and therefore the Muslim legislators will be more pliable. Exactly what we are suggesting on this forum...it has nothing to do with health and everything to do with religion.

                              You really need to take your blinkers off and unscramble your brainwashed idealogical thinking......then you'll comprehend properly.

                              Comment

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