Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

New terrorist attack in Paris, at least 140 dead

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    The Pope calls the Paris attack a part of “Third World War”… What is he trying to say? Did he has a vision from God? Is the next world war going to be a religious war?

    More likely now the UK will vote out of the EU.

    The French President probably saved many lives by deciding to attend the football match, security was tightened, and the terrorists were surprised by the increased security presence, so they detonated their bombs prematurely?

    Satan brainwashed the terrorists into the suicide mission, Allah must be very angry, their souls are in Hell now (instead of Heaven). Logically, why would Allah want His creations to kill another of His creations, even if they are unbelievers. We are ALL creations of God or Allah. The Qur’an did not say that Allah hate the unbelievers, the Christian Bible is even better, God is love and to love your enemy.

    My condolences to the victims’ families.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by ponyexpress View Post
      Yep that's a horrendous act of terror. Agreed with some of the assessment above, the right wing will use this to bolster their anti-migrants/refugees campaign. But I wonder why people around the world didn't pay much attention to what happened in Beirut. I guess the foundation of humanity lays on the land of those powerful ones.
      Linked... sort of.

      [SIZE=3][COLOR=#333333][FONT=Guardian Text Egyptian Web]"Meanwhile in Beirut, the head of Lebanon’s Hezbollah movement, Hassan Nasrallah, strongly condemned Isis’ attack on Paris.[/FONT][/COLOR]
      [COLOR=#333333][FONT=Guardian Text Egyptian Web]“We, Hezbollah, express our strong condemnation and denunciation of the terrorist attack by the criminals of Daesh in Paris,” he said in a televised address, using the Arabic acronym for the jihadist group.
      [/FONT][/COLOR]
      [COLOR=#333333][FONT=Guardian Text Egyptian Web]Expressing his solidarity with the French people, he said the Middle East was also suffering “the earthquake” of jihadist groups.[/FONT][/COLOR]
      [/SIZE][COLOR=#333333][FONT=Guardian Text Egyptian Web][SIZE=3]Tensions in Beirut have run high since Thursday, when a twin suicide attack hit a densely populated suburb of the capital, killing 43 and wounding more than 200. The attack was claimed by Isis."
      http://www.theguardian.com/world/liv...es-isis-france
      [/SIZE]
      [/FONT][/COLOR]
      "[COLOR=#000000][FONT=Helvetica Neue]I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it.[/FONT][/COLOR]"
      George Bernard Shaw

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by El_Goretto View Post
        I don't think there's anything bigoted about anticipating that terrorists might hide among the refugees. It's the most logical move for those terrorists. What's wrong is using the terrorist excuse to avoid dealing with refugees.

        Among these refugees, there are of course a majority of genuine people fleeing the war. Can we prevent opportunist fake refugees from hiding among them? Can we prevent isis fighters from hiding among them?
        I don't really think so, unfortunately.

        There isn't any simple answer to this issue. It's a shit storm and all solutions will have huge downsides. And clearly, isis currently has the upper hand.
        True, it is a very complex issue indeed. I am not advocating shutting the borders either. There are a few things that could be considered though:

        1. The number of people that are genuinely fleeing the war may be less then half of the overall migrant stream. There are a lot of people who are simply fleeing dysfunctional societies and looking
        for economic opportunities elsewhere. European welcoming attitude hasn't gone unnoticed.
        2. I had befriended a Middle-Eastern family in Indonesia who were looking for asylum in Australia. By their own admission, about 90% of asylum seekers in their holding center of 200 had either
        completely made up or greatly embellished their stories. In reality, most simply wanted to move to a better society.
        3. Europe could harden it's outside borders and keep asylum seekers on the outskirts while separating true refugees from economic migrants. There could be partnerships set up with neighboring countries or even places like Kazakhstan to set up processing facilities. A family fleeing the war zone to save their lives would have no choice but to go there. People that simply want to move to Europe might think twice before submitting to the ordeal. This sounds like an Australian solution, but the difference would be that Europe would readily admit a much greater number of true refugees and shorten the processing time to something reasonable, on the scale of months rather than years.
        Last edited by Niko Z.; 15-11-15, 08:36.
        Take my advice, I don't need it.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by sul1995 View Post

          More likely now the UK will vote out of the EU.

          .
          Eh ? I doubt that.

          Despite what the current government opines, the UK and most Western nations have a pretty good record of accepting and settling refugees from a variety of troubled nations. I don't expect this to change in the long-term but checks and more checks are going to need to be tightened to reduce the likelihood of more dangerous IS operatives from getting in.
          Vengeance is mine; I will repay.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by londo_edan View Post
            Eh ? I doubt that.

            Despite what the current government opines, the UK and most Western nations have a pretty good record of accepting and settling refugees from a variety of troubled nations. I don't expect this to change in the long-term but checks and more checks are going to need to be tightened to reduce the likelihood of more dangerous IS operatives from getting in.
            And why do they bother?

            There's no way for us to separate the "legitimate" refugees from the terrorists and economic migrants, nor should we. All of them should be rejected so that countries like Japan, South Korea and Saudi Arabia can step to the plate. They're gonna do that, right?

            Western countries in general need to harden their hearts to this, because we cannot save them all. There's a whole world's worth of people in dire straits and we cannot save them all nor should we. Importing them imports their problems, as was demonstrated in Paris.

            The future is dictated by those countries that attract talented immigrants. THAT should be the sole deciding factor on who is taken in, not sob stories rooted in sectarian conflicts we can't resolve.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by DanInAceh View Post
              And why do they bother?

              There's no way for us to separate the "legitimate" refugees from the terrorists and economic migrants, nor should we. All of them should be rejected so that countries like Japan, South Korea and Saudi Arabia can step to the plate. They're gonna do that, right?

              Western countries in general need to harden their hearts to this, because we cannot save them all. There's a whole world's worth of people in dire straits and we cannot save them all nor should we. Importing them imports their problems, as was demonstrated in Paris.

              The future is dictated by those countries that attract talented immigrants. THAT should be the sole deciding factor on who is taken in, not sob stories rooted in sectarian conflicts we can't resolve.
              Sob stories? Dan shitload of Acehnese went abroad to seek for asylum. You can find them in Sweden (some of them are in Australia and I met them). The government of Sweden should've told them to keep those sad stories to themselves. People running away from their country not because they want to but they don't have any options. The process of granting their refugees visa are painstakingly long. Heaps of them are stuck in refugee camps. Feeling desperate and frustrated, many decided to go back home but that's not an easy process either.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by ponyexpress View Post
                Sob stories? Dan shitload of Acehnese went abroad to seek for asylum. You can find them in Sweden (some of them are in Australia and I met them). The government of Sweden should've told them to keep those sad stories to themselves. People running away from their country not because they want to but they don't have any options. The process of granting their refugees visa are painstakingly long. Heaps of them are stuck in refugee camps. Feeling desperate and frustrated, many decided to go back home but that's not an easy process either.
                Sure. To be certain, progress in Aceh's conflict came with the tsunami, not because Sweden was hosting the ideologues responsible for Aceh nationalism. It can also be noted that the conflict continued (and continues) without Hasan di Tiro's writings and on the ground in Aceh proper. By taking them in, Sweden needlessly exposed itself to the conflict in Aceh.

                There's also the argument that Aceh nationalism is bad for Aceh. I don't personally subscribe to this, but neutrality absolves a country of any role to play in separatist fighting.

                Western countries are so damn ready to *help* and then scratch their heads when they end up getting more than they bargained for. Being evangelists for peace and human rights is all fine and dandy until you actually have to eat all of the crap those refugees will bring for you. Some refugees are exceedingly skillful and rich. The flight of the Persian Jews from Iran to Beverly Hills is a great example. Korean and Vietnamese refugees to the United States were another. Such refugees are highly desirable. Syrian and Acehnese refugees are not, not unless they're highly skilled/wealthy.

                But hey, I guess they can all go live at your house. The logistics and legal ramifications and funding and all of it is a total loss in almost every instance.

                Send 'em to Japan.

                Comment


                • #38
                  And I'd also like to speak to the "they don't have any options" hogwash. Really? Most of the Syrians were holed up in Turkey, but left. Like the Rohingya upset about being in Aceh, they see Turkey as a lateral move at best. Why stay there when you can make it to the UK or Germany? So they flee safety to endanger themselves and, rarely since most of them are able bodied men who should be fighting ISIS instead of ducking out and chasing tail in Europe, their children.

                  This isn't about safety, because if it were they'd be fleeing to adjacent states and squatting there, but about opportunity. I get that. I also don't want to give it to them because it takes away opportunity from myself and others. Europe isn't a hotbed of failed states, let's not make it one by importing the problems of actual failed states. They bring with them their sectarian conflict.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by DanInAceh View Post
                    And why do they bother?

                    There's no way for us to separate the "legitimate" refugees from the terrorists and economic migrants, nor should we. All of them should be rejected so that countries like Japan, South Korea and Saudi Arabia can step to the plate. They're gonna do that, right?

                    Western countries in general need to harden their hearts to this, because we cannot save them all. There's a whole world's worth of people in dire straits and we cannot save them all nor should we. Importing them imports their problems, as was demonstrated in Paris.

                    The future is dictated by those countries that attract talented immigrants. THAT should be the sole deciding factor on who is taken in, not sob stories rooted in sectarian conflicts we can't resolve.
                    Yet again I find myself in agreement with you.

                    This was a point I have been shouted down for in the past. No refugees want to come to Indonesia for example do they ?? the reason being they get nothing in the way of benefits or social security from the government, Unlike they do in Europe hence the reason they all want to head to European nations in droves as opposed to Muslim countries like Saudi Arabia for example.

                    Another fact that seems to be missed on a lot of people is that the people fleeing to Europe are mainly young men of fighting age. So rather than stand and fight for their own country they will run away to Europe for a free hand out and safety. What does that tell you about the caliber and integrity of these people ?? If ISIS arrived in the UK, Australia or the US would all the fighting age men flee like cowards ??? Is this really the sort of people we want in Europe ?? Indeed ISIS has previously threatened to send its fanatics to Europe mixed in with the refugees. So what are we seeing here, cowards or Terrorists ?? Lets not forget that a number of the recent terrorists killed in Paris had came to Europe as refugees only months before.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      I'd like to address 2 points: the critic of refugees seeking handouts as opposed to safety and why able young men decide to flee rather than fight.

                      Safety:
                      Safety doesn't only mean safety from harm but also economic safety. What's the point of running from bullets if you're gonna die of disease and hunger in yet another developing country. Of course these people need material help. It's a huge humanitarian crisis and being safe from bullets isn't enough.

                      Taking arms:
                      Telling people that they should go to war from the comfort of the chair in front of the screen is very easy. Unless you are confronted with this situation yourself (general you, not anyone in particular), I don't think you should decide who is fit enough to risk their lives and risk abandoning their families.
                      I'd love to say that if such thing happened in France I would fight back the oppressor, but if I had the option to get my family out of there instead, I'd most likely do that instead.

                      In fact, history shows that the same thing happened during WW2 in France and other countries under the Nazi occupation: a small portion joined the resistance but the vast majority kept their heads down and tried to survive. There was nowhere better to go at the time but if there was, I'm sure we would have seen a mass exodus.

                      And moreover, the situation is very dire: who to fight? Daesh? Assad? The Russians? It's a cluster fuck over there with no end in sight.

                      And let's not forget that this whole mess was started by the West and their fuck up in the Middle East in the first place. Now this conflict is growing week after week, involving more and more actors. It can't be ignored anymore.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        It appears about 70% of the refugees from Syria are as Scoot says are Young men, Britain gave 2million pounds to the refugee camps in Turkey and Lebanon, so that the refugees could stay, I believe Germany also contributed slightly more, we can all guess what the rich Arab states like Saudi, Emirates etc gave, Sod all,
                        Obama says ISIS is Contained, Brilliant, Trump says, if people had guns this wouldn't of happened, can you image an entire theatre audience pulling out guns and shooting, Hilary says American can take a 100,000 , Wow, I think I will vote for Putin,

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Anglian View Post
                          It appears about 70% of the refugees from Syria are as Scoot says are Young men, Britain gave 2million pounds to the refugee camps in Turkey and Lebanon, so that the refugees could stay, I believe Germany also contributed slightly more, we can all guess what the rich Arab states like Saudi, Emirates etc gave, Sod all,
                          Obama says ISIS is Contained, Brilliant, Trump says, if people had guns this wouldn't of happened, can you image an entire theatre audience pulling out guns and shooting, Hilary says American can take a 100,000 , Wow, I think I will vote for Putin,

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            The body count rise until "more than 150" for now stabilizing at 129.


                            What are the chance France goes to an open war with ISIS?
                            The president said they will revenge the dead. Not sure of how this will be translate in reality.
                            La motivation vient en se motivant ~ Motivation come by self-motivation

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              well they already did http://edition.cnn.com/2015/11/15/mi...sis/index.html

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by DanInAceh View Post
                                And I'd also like to speak to the "they don't have any options" hogwash. Really? Most of the Syrians were holed up in Turkey, but left. Like the Rohingya upset about being in Aceh, they see Turkey as a lateral move at best. Why stay there when you can make it to the UK or Germany? So they flee safety to endanger themselves and, rarely since most of them are able bodied men who should be fighting ISIS instead of ducking out and chasing tail in Europe, their children.

                                This isn't about safety, because if it were they'd be fleeing to adjacent states and squatting there, but about opportunity. I get that. I also don't want to give it to them because it takes away opportunity from myself and others. Europe isn't a hotbed of failed states, let's not make it one by importing the problems of actual failed states. They bring with them their sectarian conflict.
                                These comments are cynical in the extreme. To suggest that Syrians are not fleeing for their lives, but are making calculated decisions to better their economic conditions is simply, to use the poster's catch phrase, hogwash. Hearing such "blame the victim" screeds is depressing, and I hope, not the majority view. America is a better place today because of past opendoor acceptance of immigrants and refugees. It is the nay-sayers, the fearful, the distrustful, and those who don't want "them" to be among "us" who will ultimately be the destroyers of Western liberal democracy and along with it the freedoms we all enjoy. If the West responds as Dan suggests, ISIS terrorist will have set us on the path toward our own demise. We are better than that, I hope.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X