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  • #46
    Sending students abroad just to study about Indonesia is useless. But sending them to study other fields especially the science-related ones, is not. So long as there knowledge is also implemented and being taught to Indonesian student in Indonesia.
    If you think that it's such a waste of money, it's not only about it, but the quality of the knowledge that needs to be improved as well.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by ponyexpress View Post
      The country indeed has plenty of natural resources. But does the country get more of the revenue coming from these resources? Who owns Freeport? A state-owned company? NOT. I do get that inflation was kept under control but Indonesia had received a huge amount of fund as foreign debt from international funding agencies. When the rate went pretty high in 1997, many were affected.

      What these professors do with their knowledge they've got from overseas? Let me tell you something, if you want to study about Indonesia overseas you learn from western scholars who study Indonesia. In economics, you learn what Indonesianists say about the country. For politics and nationalism you learn from Benedict Anderson. None of them come from Indonesia. Now you send these Indonesians overseas to learn about their own country through westerners' eyes. How sad is that? Intellectualism in Indonesia has waned ages ago. They can't even compete with India.
      I don't get this. Are there Indonesians learn about Indonesia abroad?

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Missnaughty View Post
        I don't get this. Are there Indonesians learn about Indonesia abroad?
        Where else do you expect them to learn about Indonesia? Indonesia text books? Ha Ha Ha
        [COLOR=#333333][FONT=Verdana]Some love to milk Apostate.[/FONT][/COLOR]

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        • #49
          Problem is, a lot of these students educated abroad find little reason to come back. Many actually ended up residing overseas.

          What do you expect the engineers and scientists do in a country where it's usual occurrence to have stupid rules bringing about situations like the current "the electric cars made are illegal because they did not pass emission test"...

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          • #50
            Originally posted by fransgg View Post
            Hi Pony,

            I Disagreed with your opinion about scholarship program. I think Scholarship programs are beneficial for fostering beneficial relationships between nations and cultures, especially on Masters and Phd levels.
            By Studying aboard, these scholarships recipients will experiences live in other cultures and develop personal ties/affinity to the host countries. Majority Scholarships recipients are future leaders of this country. and most of them will go back to Indonesia, their education and experiences from abroad will be beneficial to the public sectors, private sectors, and relationships between Indonesia and hosts countries.

            Actually Indonesian government by law has to allocated 20% of Government Budget for education. I Hope the new education minister will be able to use the funds more effectively than last minister.

            Best Regards,

            frans
            I don't think it matters. I don't think the scholarships are paid for by Indonesians or the Indonesian Government. The students are leaving some of the worst schools in the world to study at some of the best. I would be more worried about brain drain, if and when they stay in the more developed countries. Also, it is such as small percentage of the total population. There are only 17,000 Indonesians per year that study abroad, mostly in Australia and U.S..

            Indonesia actually spends a fair amount per student. It does spend 20% of the government budget on education. This is actually pretty good.
            http://www.worldbank.org/en/news/pre...g-in-indonesia

            The problem is how much of that actually gets spent on education vs. corruption.
            http://thediplomat.com/2013/12/indon...onomic-growth/
            http://thejakartaglobe.beritasatu.co...ered-by-graft/
            http://www.eastasiaforum.org/2014/02...income-status/

            Indonesia currently spends a significantly higher share of its resources on basic education than does Thailand and Malaysia, let alone Singapore or South Korea.
            These are just two of the examples from much of my recent research. Most of the articles I read on the Indonesian education system seamed to have a consistent message. Indonesian schools suck because they aren't given the basic facilities to educate and with a culture of corruption, there are no real standards.

            While Indonesia is spending as a % of GDP what many other nations are, they are not getting the money's worth.


            http://www.eastasiaforum.org/2012/11...tion-spending/

            The percentage of job market entrants with at least a senior secondary education surpassed 50 per cent in 2008 for the first time.
            That means half of all job entrants (usually the youth) did not even complete SMA.
            How can they compete in a global world?


            This low level of skill is confirmed by employer surveys, which reveal that many recent graduates are not meeting employers’ expectations. This points to the biggest challenge in education in Indonesia at the moment: improving the quality of education.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by fastpitch17 View Post
              Where else do you expect them to learn about Indonesia? Indonesia text books? Ha Ha Ha

              ... I did learn about my country at school... the geographic, culture different, the politic and ideology, history, the strengths and weaknesses.. etc... so what else do these kids want to know by getting the information from strangers?

              But, yeah... I am concerned with the next Indonesian generation... more to their attitudes and integrity.

              Like what I have experienced, in a traffic light in a round about (yes it is a bit confusing), I stopped because it was red. When me and another car in front of me did "the right thing", the line on my left decided to ignore the red light as there was no car coming from the left... so, everyone started breaking the rule.. and me and the other car who follow the regulation.. were bipped and honk.. and in the end we too had to go.

              Now, that is what we facing here in Indonesia. This is the norm that most people do here like being corrupt, being selfish, ignorance etc... It would be difficult for the others who are trying to do the "right thing".. because they will be bipped and honk.. with the reason... "this is how we do things in Indonesia"...

              * I could have stopped and wait for the light to turn green.. but if I am the only one who doing it.. I will be the odd one and of course .. it is convenient for me too.
              Last edited by Missnaughty; 27-06-15, 10:58.

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              • #52
                Well, you would be surprised how much these 'strangers' know about 'your' country. In Leiden for instance, there are even specialized studies on Indonesian history etc., even Javanese courses. Heck, even compare the (Dutch or English) Catawiki pages with those in Bahasa Indonesia.

                And it always strikes me how little the Indonesian youngsters know about their own country. There are exceptions of course (Nimbus, MasR and Ricky come to mind) but in general the historical awareness is rather low. Those are things you should learn at school. And I know for sure people like Pony, Benederlof, Hombre and yours truly, just to take the random pick, know much more about the country than your average S1. That's not meant to be a reproach but just a painful observation that something goes wrong in the (educational) system.

                And don't think the kids will throw that plastic out of the Fortuner if their parents would not approve. And yes, that is a reproach.
                [FONT=arial black]
                [/FONT]

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by jstar View Post
                  Well, you would be surprised how much these 'strangers' know about 'your' country. In Leiden for instance, there are even specialized studies on Indonesian history etc., even Javanese courses. Heck, even compare the (Dutch or English) Catawiki pages with those in Bahasa Indonesia.

                  And it always strikes me how little the Indonesian youngsters know about their own country. There are exceptions of course (Nimbus, MasR and Ricky come to mind) but in general the historical awareness is rather low. Those are things you should learn at school. And I know for sure people like Pony, Benederlof, Hombre and yours truly, just to take the random pick, know much more about the country than your average S1. That's not meant to be a reproach but just a painful observation that something goes wrong in the (educational) system.

                  And don't think the kids will throw that plastic out of the Fortuner if their parents would not approve. And yes, that is a reproach.
                  It's true. Indonesian youngins tend to act kebule-bulean these days which is quite sickening.

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by dramaqween View Post
                    It's true. Indonesian youngins tend to act kebule-bulean these days which is quite sickening.
                    I don't understand your comment.
                    Buke (kebule-bulean) don't trow garbage out of their window.
                    On this precise point, it would be nice if they could be kebule-bulean.
                    La motivation vient en se motivant ~ Motivation come by self-motivation

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                    • #55
                      @dramaqween
                      I dont understand why you would describe it as "sickening".. If the impact is good, then it is a good influence.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by PhilippeD View Post
                        I don't understand your comment.
                        Buke (kebule-bulean) don't trow garbage out of their window.
                        On this precise point, it would be nice if they could be kebule-bulean.
                        Of course there's nothing wrong with a bule acting like a bule because it's their culture. But when Indonesians start to act like a bule, they tend to forget their own cultural values and assume that bule's life is like in hollywood movies, which is plainly ignorant. I'm more pointing out that it's bad to adapt western culture if it's not done in the right way, rather than saying that your culture is sickening.

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by sand86id View Post
                          @dramaqween
                          I dont understand why you would describe it as "sickening".. If the impact is good, then it is a good influence.
                          The impact is good - That would only happen if Indonesian youngsters also adapt their knowledge. The thing is that they're not.

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                          • #58
                            What do you mean by "adapt their knowledge"? As in apply the knowledge? I dont get it.

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by sand86id View Post
                              What do you mean by "adapt their knowledge"? As in apply the knowledge? I dont get it.
                              Lazy to explain. Relate my answers by yourself.

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by dramaqween View Post
                                Of course there's nothing wrong with a bule acting like a bule because it's their culture. But when Indonesians start to act like a bule, they tend to forget their own cultural values and assume that bule's life is like in hollywood movies, which is plainly ignorant. I'm more pointing out that it's bad to adapt western culture if it's not done in the right way, rather than saying that your culture is sickening.
                                What exactly do you mean? I assume by bule you mean someone who didn't happen to be born in Indonesia. I do wish people wouldn't use that silly word, and that is quite a big generalisation if that is what you did mean - are you saying there is a certain way that people who were not born on Indonesia act? How do they act?

                                And what the hell is kebule-bulean? What a random phrase. Your other comment above about Indonesians acting kebulean-bulean did not make any sense at all. I can not connect it to jstar's comment which you were replying to -please elaborate.

                                I have noticed quite a few of your posts that seem to be extremely confused or trying to wind people up/get people to bite.

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