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UN report to state Australia is in breach of international torture convention

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  • UN report to state Australia is in breach of international torture convention

    [SIZE=2]'UN report to state Australia is in breach of international torture convention[/SIZE]



    Rioting at the Manus Island detention centre in January. Photo: [email protected]

    An independent expert has found aspects of Australia's asylum-seeker policies have breached the United Nations Convention Against Torture.

    A report addressing concerns about Manus Island, as well as recent amendments to maritime laws, is due to be submitted to the UN Human Rights Council today....

    http://www.theage.com.au/federal-pol...08-13ymlk.html
    IknowthatyoubelieveyouunderstandwhatyouthinkIsaid, butI'mnotsureyourealisethatwhatyouheardisnotwhatI meant.

  • #2
    [SIZE=2]Tony Abbott: Australians 'sick of being lectured to' by United Nations, after report finds anti-torture breach [/SIZE]



    Prime Minister Tony Abbott has rejected a report from the UN that says Australia has breached its obligations on the anti-torture convention. Photo: Andrew Meares

    'Australians are "sick of being lectured to by the United Nations", Prime Minister Tony Abbott has said after a report found Australia's treatment of asylum seekers breaches an international anti-torture convention.

    The report, by the UN's special rapporteur on torture, finds Australia is violating the rights of asylum seekers on multiple fronts under the Convention Against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment...'

    http://www.theage.com.au/federal-pol...09-13z3j0.html


    NO WE ARE NOT TONY!

    We are actually embarrassed by you and your personal ineptitude cringing every time you open your mouth not knowing what next you will utter though we are sure your foot will be in there!

    You are a disgrace as our PM!

    Not just in terms of what is now officially recognised by the UN as torture of genuine Refugees but your mean spirited agenda with it's underlying Philosophy {Neo Conservatism} you and most of your 'fellow travelers' preach!

    Your Government has managed in such a short time to wreck the economy, {read the many reports by Economic writers yourselves there are too many for me to find again and paste links, sorry} embarrass us totally at the G20 by using it as a medium for local Politics, pushed one of your major support group offside, The Business Community.
    The lack of uncertainty they talk about given your lack of coherent Policies is hurting Business confidence as well as Consumer confidence! and so on and so forth ...

    WTF, no one is reading this even though it is theraputic to write it, what's the point, one cannot change the minds of those woth opposing beliefs with facts alone!
    IknowthatyoubelieveyouunderstandwhatyouthinkIsaid, butI'mnotsureyourealisethatwhatyouheardisnotwhatI meant.

    Comment


    • #3
      Pretty sure the UN has a similar report on most countries!

      Comment


      • #4
        Who cares what the UN thinks, as usual they will do nothing about it.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by ohmdafyd View Post
          An independent expert has found aspects of Australia's asylum-seeker policies have breached the United Nations Convention Against Torture.
          Hunt around long enough and you can pretty much find 'an independent expert' to say whatever you want them to say in whatever field you're interested in.
          Sometimes I feel I must be lexdysic.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Bagindo View Post
            Hunt around long enough and you can pretty much find 'an independent expert' to say whatever you want them to say in whatever field you're interested in.

            Bagindo,

            Please write your posts in a manner that clearly show who is actually making the statement you quote and include links as you know you should be, or are you takut of receiving a writ from Fairfax? ...

            For the record I am not the person who wrote the quoted paragraph in his post , Bagindo has 'cherry picked' the quote from a newspaper article, nakkal sekali!! ...
            IknowthatyoubelieveyouunderstandwhatyouthinkIsaid, butI'mnotsureyourealisethatwhatyouheardisnotwhatI meant.

            Comment


            • #7
              I get your point, but I think it's pretty clear on this page what the source of that once sentence is. It's not like I reproduce entire articles from commercial sites.
              Sometimes I feel I must be lexdysic.

              Comment


              • #8
                Here's the UN definition of torture:
                [SIZE=3]
                “... 'torture' means any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity. It does not include pain or suffering arising only from, inherent in or incidental to lawful sanctions.”

                [/SIZE]It seems that Australia may have breached article 16:

                It "[COLOR=#252525][FONT=sans-serif]requires parties to prevent "other acts of cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment which do not amount to torture as defined in article 1" in any territory under their jurisdiction. Because it is often difficult to distinguish between cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment or punishment and torture, the Committee regards Article 16's prohibition of such act as similarly absolute and non-derogable".
                [/FONT][/COLOR]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Convention_against_Torture#Definiti on_of_torture
                "[COLOR=#000000][FONT=Helvetica Neue]I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it.[/FONT][/COLOR]"
                George Bernard Shaw

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Bagindo View Post
                  I get your point, but I think it's pretty clear on this page what the source of that once sentence is. It's not like I reproduce entire articles from commercial sites.

                  IF, you get my point, why then do you go on to rationilise your 'mistake' in making your post.

                  Btw, your not so subtle digs at me cutting and pasting pages of info is laughable, as I said in another thread {which you started on quoting statement's made by others}, many people will not click on the link and actually read the information available.

                  Can't you see that you are so easy to read? ...
                  IknowthatyoubelieveyouunderstandwhatyouthinkIsaid, butI'mnotsureyourealisethatwhatyouheardisnotwhatI meant.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    [COLOR=#333333][FONT=Times New Roman]Let’s look at the UN committee making the criticism; included among its 10 members are China, Nepal, Morocco, Georgia and Chile.[/FONT][/COLOR]
                    [COLOR=#333333][FONT=Times New Roman]So at least five of its members — 50 per cent of the committee — have recent human rights records that would horrify Australians and only serve to demonstrate this nation’s standing as one where the rule of law, equality under the law and personal freedoms are highly valued and protected.[/FONT][/COLOR]
                    [COLOR=#333333][FONT=Times New Roman]The idea that China or Georgia would lecture Australia on human rights is risible.[/FONT][/COLOR]
                    [COLOR=#333333][FONT=Times New Roman]We shouldn’t be surprised. The UN’s Human Rights Committee, for instance, includes Egypt — the nation that just incarcerated Australian journalist Peter Greste for more than a year. Other members include Algeria, Georgia, Suriname, Montenegro and Uganda.[/FONT][/COLOR]
                    [COLOR=#333333][FONT=Times New Roman]Still, the UN has Iran sitting on its Commission for the Status of Women and, despite its one child policy, China gets a spot as well ... Oh, and so does Pakistan, where girls have been killed just for going to school.[/FONT][/COLOR]

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by akubrahat View Post
                      [COLOR=#333333][FONT=Times New Roman]Let’s look at the UN committee making the criticism; included among its 10 members are China, Nepal, Morocco, Georgia and Chile.[/FONT][/COLOR]
                      [COLOR=#333333][FONT=Times New Roman]So at least five of its members — 50 per cent of the committee — have recent human rights records that would horrify Australians and only serve to demonstrate this nation’s standing as one where the rule of law, equality under the law and personal freedoms are highly valued and protected.[/FONT][/COLOR]
                      [COLOR=#333333][FONT=Times New Roman]The idea that China or Georgia would lecture Australia on human rights is risible.[/FONT][/COLOR]
                      [COLOR=#333333][FONT=Times New Roman]We shouldn’t be surprised. The UN’s Human Rights Committee, for instance, includes Egypt — the nation that just incarcerated Australian journalist Peter Greste for more than a year. Other members include Algeria, Georgia, Suriname, Montenegro and Uganda.[/FONT][/COLOR]
                      [COLOR=#333333][FONT=Times New Roman]Still, the UN has Iran sitting on its Commission for the Status of Women and, despite its one child policy, China gets a spot as well ... Oh, and so does Pakistan, where girls have been killed just for going to school.[/FONT][/COLOR]
                      UN decisions are like sausage making - it's best not to know the details.

                      Regarding the report; I think the author is somewhat independent from the various committees as all special rapporteurs are meant to be. However I guess there's a certain element of pressure on him to toe the UN party line.

                      Here's a link to his background http://www.ohchr.org/EN/Issues/Tortu...uanMendez.aspx

                      He denies Abbott's lecturing allegation: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-03-1...rights/6292784
                      Last edited by lantern; 10-03-15, 07:26.
                      "[COLOR=#000000][FONT=Helvetica Neue]I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it.[/FONT][/COLOR]"
                      George Bernard Shaw

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        [COLOR=#333333][FONT=Times New Roman]THE UN’s conclusion that Australia exposes asylum-seekers to torture or inhumane treatment was reached after accepting the claims of activists without hearings or independent investigation of the facts, and was based on the lack of detailed rebuttal from the *government.[/FONT][/COLOR]
                        [COLOR=#333333][FONT=Times New Roman]The report of the “special rapporteur on torture and other cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment” is based on the submissions of lobby groups such as the Australian Human Rights Law Centre and concludes: “In the absence of *information to the contrary, the rapporteur concludes that there is substance in the allegations *presented.”

                        [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#333333][FONT=Times New Roman]Legal academic James Allan from the University of Queensland said the finding that Australia had engaged in torture did not deserve to be taken seriously. It had been made by a special rapporteur who reports to the UN Human Rights Council and had been based solely on allegations because it had no information to the contrary. But Professor Allan said that even if a more acceptable procedure had been used, Australia should pay no attention to a report for the UN Human Rights Council that included countries with poor records on human rights. The current members of the UN Human Rights Council include the Ivory Coast, Ethiopia, Gabon, Kazakhstan, Pakistan, Sierra Leone and Venezuela.[/FONT][/COLOR]
                        [COLOR=#333333][FONT=Times New Roman]Next year, China, Cuba and Russia are among the countries due to take seats on the council, followed in 2017 by Bangladesh, Congo, Ghana, Nigeria and Qatar.[/FONT][/COLOR]
                        [COLOR=#333333][FONT=Times New Roman]“It’s ridiculous. The people who make these calls have no democratic legitimacy,” Professor Allan said. “When Australia took the line that this committee would like, remember people drowned and there were more people in detention. And they never came and criticised us then.”[/FONT][/COLOR]

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Again this whole argument opens up the very discussion that we had a while ago on LIIEF. The word being bandied around is asylum seekers - meaning someone who is seeking asylum from death or persecution. Well seeing as these people are now in Indonesia (or other safe countries) surely they have found the "asylum" they were seeking. So why then are they so intent on going to Australia ?? Couldn't be anything to do with the total lack of a benefits system in Indonesia could it ??

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by ScooterIndo View Post
                            Again this whole argument opens up the very discussion that we had a while ago on LIIEF. The word being bandied around is asylum seekers - meaning someone who is seeking asylum from death or persecution. Well seeing as these people are now in Indonesia (or other safe countries) surely they have found the "asylum" they were seeking. So why then are they so intent on going to Australia ?? Couldn't be anything to do with the total lack of a benefits system in Indonesia could it ??
                            Scoot no offense intended but this is the argument put forward by the bogans, uneducated or unenlightened and fearful Ozzies succumbing to the propaganda of the Labour party when in Government and particularly this current Government of Political deadheads!

                            I'm sure that whilst in Indonesia having no legal rights at all, including the right to work or make a living, no right to schooling for the kids, being subject to arbitrary detention thus living in constant anxiety and fear plus being subjected to violence and discrimination whilst in Indonesian custody plays a huge role in wanting to move on to Australia.

                            If you were in their shoes, what would your decision be?

                            Just for further background information ...

                            'Asylum seekers who arrive by boat are subject to the same assessment criteria as all other asylum applicants.

                            Past figures show that between 70 and 97 per cent of asylum seekers arriving by boat at different times have been found to be refugees and granted protectioneither in Australia or in another country.

                            For example:
                            According to the Refugee Council of Australia, in 1998–99, approximately 97 per cent of Iraqi and 92 per cent of Afghan applicants (the majority of whom would have arrived by boat) were granted refugee status and given permanent protection visas under the ‘Pacific Solution’ a total of 1637 unauthorised arrivals were detained in the Nauru and Manus facilities between September 2001 and February 2008.

                            Of those 1153 (70 per cent) were found to be refugees and ultimately resettled to Australia or other countries
                            During the Rudd Government approximately 90–95 per cent of assessments completed on Christmas Island resulted in protection visas being granted.

                            For example, of the 1254 claims assessed on Christmas Island between 1 July 2009 and 31 January 2010, only 110 people were assessed as not being refugees.
                            These figures suggest that 1144 (approximately 91 per cent) of those claims were successful ....

                            Full report can be read via the link

                            http://www.aph.gov.au/binaries/library/pubs/bn/sp/asylumfacts.pdf


                            And ...

                            'The Forgotten Children: National Inquiry into Children in Immigration Detention (2014)
                            Australia currently holds about 800 children in mandatory closed immigration detention for indefinite periods, with no pathway to protection or settlement. This includes 186 children detained on Nauru. Children and their families have been held on the mainland and on Christmas Island for, on average, one year and two months. Over 167 babies have been born in detention within the last 24 months. This Report gives a voice to these children...'

                            Full report can be accessed via the link below.
                            https://www.humanrights.gov.au/our-w...quiry-children

                            Finally ...

                            [COLOR=#ff0000]The vast majority of Refugees arrive by Air ...[/COLOR]

                            Onshore asylum applications
                            Program year Non-IMA (air arrival) Protection visa (PV) applications lodged IMA (Irregular Maritime Arrival) refugee status determination requests received Total
                            No Per cent of total applications No Per cent of total applications
                            2001-02 7026 76.0 2222 24.0 9248
                            2002-03 4959 98.8 60 1.2 5019
                            2003-04 3485 97.6 87 2.4 3572
                            2004-05 3062 95.4 146 4.6 3208
                            2005-06 3191 96.9 101 3.1 3292
                            2006-07 3723 99.4 23 0.6 3746
                            2007-08 3986 99.5 21 0.5 4007
                            2008-09 5072 88.0 690 12.0 5762
                            2009-10 5987 56.6 4591 43.4 10578
                            2010-11 6316 55.0 5175 45.0 11491
                            2011–12 7036 48.8 7379 51.2 14415

                            Sources
                            : DIAC, Asylum Trends Australia 2010-11 Annual Publication, Canberra, 2011, p. 2; and Asylum statistics–Australia, Quarterly tables, September quarter 2012, Canberra, 2012.

                            http://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliame...#_Toc348096468
                            IknowthatyoubelieveyouunderstandwhatyouthinkIsaid, butI'mnotsureyourealisethatwhatyouheardisnotwhatI meant.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              [QUOTE=ohmdafyd;444759]I'm sure that whilst in Indonesia having no legal rights at all, including the right to work or make a living, no right to schooling for the kids, being subject to arbitrary detention thus living in constant anxiety and fear plus being subjected to violence and discrimination whilst in Indonesian custody plays a huge role in wanting to move on to Australia.

                              If you were in their shoes, what would your decision be?
                              [QUOTE]

                              The question isn't about Indonesia and their treatment of Asylum seekers, these people left for Australia not Indonesia. They chose to go to Australia long before they had ever heard of Indonesia. The issue is about why do people from Iraq (for example) choose to come half way around the world to countries like Australia and the UK, do you really think its because of the outstanding human rights record ?? The chance to live in a freedom loving multicultural democracy ??. I don't think so, If Indonesia offered better social security benefits than Australia and the UK, it would be RI facing a "tsunami of asylum seekers"

                              As for what I would do (if I was dirt poor and living in a shithole like Iraq) well lets see, I could go over the border into the neighboring country (like the Libyans in to Tunisia or the Syrians into the Lebanon for example) where I would be safe and free but would have to start from zero and work extremely hard to just survive or I could go to Australia or the UK and get free housing, free medical care, free schooling, unemployment benefits, free money for child support and there was a government sponsored safety net in place to ensure I got all these benefits.......let me think about it such a difficult decision to make.

                              Comment

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