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  • Bali nine on death row.

    Interested to hear if this story is getting coverage in Indonesia? Ive only seen the odd little piece in the Indonesian online press.

    Been in the press in Australia for a while now, and it seems to be getting bigger and bigger, and everyone has there two cents worth on what they think and there has been all kinds of campaigns to get them off, even a big benefit gig with high profile music artist.

    No matter what peoples view, i do find it ironic that those who are kicking up a stink and making it a big issue in Australia, obviously don't understand how Indonesia works, Indonesia is never going to listen to what Australians think, Indonesia and indonesians in general hate foreigners and other countries interfering in there matters (and rightly so) IMO its would only ensure it does happen, just to prove to them we won't be influenced by outside pressure.

    Also the more press and media the story gets, the more it just helps Indonesia to ensure people know of there laws and string punishment, to change this would only send out the wrong message.

    It seems now the Aussie press are running with the double standard thing as Indonesia does try to save there own people in foreign lands on death row, I did here an SE asia expert taking about this and he did point out, most are maids/workers who have basically become slaves/prisoners and often abused physically and mentally and often there only chance is to kill or injure there bosses to get way.

    I can believe this as once on the way back from Singapore to Indo, my wife talked to a maid, who worked for rich Chinese in singapore and she told of how she was virtually a slave and treated real bad and they wouldn't let her go back home on holidays after a few years they finally let her but even then she had to strip down to nothing before leaving to prove she wasn't stealing anything.

    Thoughts?

  • #2
    They knew what they were doing, they were smuggling kilos of heroin and in some cases, it wasn't the first time they had done it. We aren't talking about hippy backpackers caught with a bit of weed or a few spliffs, which is how they are being painted in Australia by all accounts. Heroin is a class A narcotic and responsible for so much misery once people are addicted to it. They have no one to blame except (maybe the Australian Federal Police) and themselves. If the Australians want to point the finger it should be at their own AFP as they were the ones that were tracking them and informed the Indonesian authorities knowing full well that RI upholds the death penalty for drug smuggling, they could have said nothing and arrested them in Australia but they didn't. They chose to throw them to the lions and now the Australian public are bitching that the lions have actually bitten their citizens. All around the airports here and even on the back of the immigration card itself it says something like "The penalty for drug smuggling is death" they still chose to ignore it and bring the drugs into Bali. Now they are going to learn the hard way its not just a logo or a space filler to make the card look pretty like of Singapore's immigration card, but shock horror they actually mean it. Both countries have the death penalty and both countries carry it out regardless of the persons citizenship or protestations from the respective countries governments.

    This is nothing new, Indonesia has been executing drug smugglers here for years without any big media campaigns and drama. However now its a couple of Australians and not a Nigerian, Pakistani or an Iranian that are going to be executed suddenly the Australian public actually give a fuck. Talk about hypocrisy and double standards. Shoot them both and make it quick.
    Last edited by ScooterIndo; 06-02-15, 10:48.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by ScooterIndo View Post
      They knew what they were doing, they were smuggling kilos of heroin and in some cases, it wasn't the first time they had done it. We aren't talking about hippy backpackers caught with a bit of weed or a few spliffs, which is how they are being painted in Australia by all accounts. Heroin is a class A narcotic and responsible for so much misery once people are addicted to it. They have no one to blame except (maybe the Australian Federal Police) and themselves. If the Australians want to point the finger it should be at their own AFP as they were the ones that were tracking them and informed the Indonesian authorities knowing full well that RI upholds the death penalty for drug smuggling, they could have said nothing and arrested them in Australia but they didn't. They chose to throw them to the lions and now the Australian public are bitching that the lions have actually bitten their citizens. All around the airports here and even on the back of the immigration card itself it says something like "The penalty for drug smuggling is death" they still chose to ignore it and bring the drugs into Bali. Now they are going to learn the hard way its not just a logo or a space filler to make the card look pretty like of Singapore's immigration card, but shock horror they actually mean it. Both countries have the death penalty and both countries carry it out regardless of the persons citizenship or protestations from the respective countries governments.

      This is nothing new, Indonesia has been executing drug smugglers here for years without any big media campaigns and drama. However now its a couple of Australians and not a Nigerian, Pakistani or an Iranian that are going to be executed suddenly the Australian public actually give a fuck. Talk about hypocrisy and double standards. Shoot both all and make it quick.
      As OP i was trying to take a neutral view, but i do agree 100%.

      So is there any real media attention to the story in Indonesia?

      I wonder if it was part of the reason on Aussie not getting the free VOA?…..not that i mind paying the $25 USD or whatever it is now.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by ScooterIndo View Post
        This is nothing new, Indonesia has been executing drug smugglers here for years without any big media campaigns and drama. However now its a couple of Australians and not a Nigerian, Pakistani or an Iranian that are going to be executed suddenly the Australian public actually give a fuck. Talk about hypocrisy and double standards. Shoot them both and make it quick.
        Perhaps the Australians give a fuck about their own citizens and the Nigerians, Iranians and Pakistanis do not. Why is the British granny getting so much attention in the British press? Why is Jordan pissed off now that IS has killed one of their own?

        As you said they have been executing drug smugglers for years and look at the results. Is it hard to buy drugs in Indonesia? Apart from it not being an effective means of eradicating drugs, it's also worrying that people are put to death after being processed by two corrupt institutions, the police and the judiciary. The death penalty is a nice little earner for a few well positioned individuals in those institutions. "They knew what they were getting into" argument is fine but there is such a thing as a bad law.
        "[COLOR=#000000][FONT=Helvetica Neue]I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it.[/FONT][/COLOR]"
        George Bernard Shaw

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        • #5
          Scooter comes across as a man who would never give a person a second chance.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by johntap View Post
            Scooter comes across as a man who would never give a person a second chance.
            Indeed.

            Andrew Chan was just 21 (and yet was presented as the "Godfather" by Indonesian police) and Myuran Sukumaran was just slightly older (I think he wasn't even 24) at the time of their arrest, some ten years ago. They certainly deserve years in jail, but death? For attempting to smuggle narcotics out of Indonesia?

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            • #7
              I find it weird when people defend these two with there age or on social media people are always going on how people make mistakes when there young.

              There actions are very premeditated not an action based on raw emotion (other than greed)like if you had a blue and pulled a trigger of a gun in rage, they likely planned this ahead months or at least weeks, plenty of time to reconsider there actions and it was well known after the Scharpelle thing by the majority of Aussies on the strong penalties for drug trafficking in Indonesia.

              It takes a bit of effort to pull something like this off, source the drugs, get money for the tickets etc and get seven other people to strap 8kg of heroin to them which also should be noted, where threatened with threats that if they backed out they would go after there families.

              It also shows exactly the sort of people they are when they then try to take a separate fight, so if the mules did get caught they would not.

              A few of the mules like Renae also admit that this was not her first run, and its also been reported that this was not the first time at least for Andrew out of Baii, also media reports that mules that were caught in Hong Kong also claim that Andrew was the ring leader.

              Im with Scooter they knew exactly what they were doing, caught red handed even admit guilt, to me they rolled the dice they played the game and lost.

              Personally I'm very happy on how Jokowi has dealt with this.
              Last edited by mick mentawai; 07-02-15, 04:17.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by mick mentawai View Post

                Im with Scooter they knew exactly what they were doing, caught red handed even admit guilt, to me they rolled the dice they played the game and lost.

                Personally I'm very happy on how Jokowi has dealt with this.
                Do you remember being 21? Remember the age of blissful ignorance and indestructibility? Why stop at shooting drug smugglers? Can you think of other criminal activity that has a greater negative impact on the lives of Indonesians?
                "[COLOR=#000000][FONT=Helvetica Neue]I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it.[/FONT][/COLOR]"
                George Bernard Shaw

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by ScooterIndo View Post
                  This is nothing new, Indonesia has been executing drug smugglers here for years without any big media campaigns and drama. However now its a couple of Australians and not a Nigerian, Pakistani or an Iranian that are going to be executed suddenly the Australian public actually give a fuck. Talk about hypocrisy and double standards. Shoot them both and make it quick.
                  The problem for Indonesia is that is a has a large number of its citizens on death row around the world. The Indonesian public expects their government to intervene for these people, and have paid millions in "blood money" to secure the release of convicted murderers. SBY's strategy was to stop executing death row inmates as a way of gaining moral legitimacy. The government could then argue for the release or clemency on this ground, and did so with success in some cases. In fact it has been many years since a drug smuggler of any nationality was executed.

                  Regardless of the wrongs or rights of execution, Indonesia has just handed over a stick for foreign governments to beat it with when arguing clemency for its own citizens.

                  The Australian public aren't all that concerned about this case, surveys show that the majority of Australians don't have a high level of support for the convicted. There is usually a much bigger outcry in Indonesia when their citizens are sentenced to death overseas. This will hurt Indonesian foreign interests in their own cases far more than it hurts the Australian, Brazilian, Dutch or British governments who have protested.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by lantern View Post
                    Do you remember being 21? Remember the age of blissful ignorance and indestructibility? Why stop at shooting drug smugglers? Can you think of other criminal activity that has a greater negative impact on the lives of Indonesians?
                    I did some silly things, i even grew and sold a little pot, but i can't say it ever crossed my mind to even consider becoming a drug mule let only getting seven others to become drug mules, and if i did id like to think i was smart enough to ensure the countries I departed from or traveled through were not countries with the death penalty, id be looking for countries that have soft laws like Australia even if the money i made was not as big.

                    Which by the way goes against what many say that the death penalty doesn't work or deter others, i only have an average IQ but id still ensure i avoided those countries with the Death Penalty.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by akubrahat View Post
                      The problem for Indonesia is that is a has a large number of its citizens on death row around the world. The Indonesian public expects their government to intervene for these people, and have paid millions in "blood money" to secure the release of convicted murderers. SBY's strategy was to stop executing death row inmates as a way of gaining moral legitimacy. The government could then argue for the release or clemency on this ground, and did so with success in some cases. In fact it has been many years since a drug smuggler of any nationality was executed.

                      Regardless of the wrongs or rights of execution, Indonesia has just handed over a stick for foreign governments to beat it with when arguing clemency for its own citizens.

                      The Australian public aren't all that concerned about this case, surveys show that the majority of Australians don't have a high level of support for the convicted. There is usually a much bigger outcry in Indonesia when their citizens are sentenced to death overseas. This will hurt Indonesian foreign interests in their own cases far more than it hurts the Australian, Brazilian, Dutch or British governments who have protested.

                      The thing is, and I'm saying they are right as they still committed murder….but I believe the majority of those cases are of maids etc that have murdered there bosses basically to survive or escape from being trapped as basically a slave and often abused both physically, mentally and sexually.

                      Id be very surprised if Indonesia supported Indonesians on death row who are drug smugglers or known criminals.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by mick mentawai View Post
                        The thing is, and I'm saying they are right as they still committed murder….but I believe the majority of those cases are of maids etc that have murdered there bosses basically to survive or escape from being trapped as basically a slave and often abused both physically, mentally and sexually.

                        Id be very surprised if Indonesia supported Indonesians on death row who are drug smugglers or known criminals.
                        I agree with what you say. Along with the majority of Australians, I don't have sympathy for drug smugglers who knowingly break the law of foreign countries and make the decision to gamble with their lives hoping for a big payoff. This is a conscious decision on their part and they know the risks and don't have to take them. You can argue about the effectiveness of the death sentence or lack thereof but these people make the decision based on greed and they what what will happen if they get caught.

                        People who are kept in slave conditions and raped and tortured deserve help when they retaliate.

                        But the politics and mindset of the countries executing Indonesian citizens is: "if its ok for you to do it then don't complain when we do it". It has nothing to do with morality, its a political problem.

                        The other problem is the general quality of justice in the system. But no-one is suggesting these people were set up, they were genuine professional drug smugglers.

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                        • #13
                          For those so sure it is right to execute, you might start with this article. One among many.

                          http://thejakartaglobe.beritasatu.co...-faulty-stats/

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                          • #14
                            It's just not the place of the government to kill. In what way is this not murder? Have you guys heard about what they do with firing squads? Most of them are told that one of the bullets loaded into one of the guns is a dummy (was blanks, but they use a rubber bullet now). This is done so each man can deny responsibility for the killing, if he wants to. The prosecution can deny responsibility, the judge can deny responsibility, the politicians who do not commute the sentence can deny responsibility. Everyone gets to blame someone else for the murder. I imagine some of you guys would like to say it's suicide, but it's not. It is not some form of defensive action, either, that the government is mandated to do in order to protect it's citizens. It's just murder, perpetrated by the governments we elect, and so in our names, and I would rather keep my hands clean of blood. In the absence of one person to blame, we are all to blame.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by johntap View Post
                              For those so sure it is right to execute, you might start with this article. One among many.

                              http://thejakartaglobe.beritasatu.co...-faulty-stats/
                              That article doesn't prove anything, the stats are irrelevant, if there high then like Jokowi said its a problem that needs to clamped down on, if that stats are lower, then he can just say, well that goes to show the harsh laws are working and if we clamp down harder we can get the even better stats.

                              He wins either way.

                              The real problem like just about everything in Indonesia is corruption, corruption and drugs are not a very good mix at all.

                              The only decent argument against the death penalty is that a % of people can get death that are not guilty, but in this case, there is no doubt of guilt, they even admit guilt and even say they just wanted to make big money.

                              If these two were only mules or it was only pot, or there was a doubt they were guilty, i think people would have better reason to be batting for them or they would be a better example to plead there case that the death penalty shouldn't be used, but there probably the worst poster boys they could have picked for there cause.
                              Last edited by mick mentawai; 07-02-15, 10:08.

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