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Terrorist attack on newspaper Charlie Hebdo in Paris leaves 12 dead, many wounded

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  • Terrorist attack on newspaper Charlie Hebdo in Paris leaves 12 dead, many wounded

    This hits really close to home (I was born in Paris and lived there a few years ago).

    I just can't describe how f'ed up this whole thing is. We aren't safe anywhere anymore. Seriously, fuck this shit.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/...0KG0Y120150107

  • #2
    Couldn't agree more.

    je suis Charlie.
    Vengeance is mine; I will repay.

    Comment


    • #3
      It's sad news but this tragedy will open up many topics of discussion on multiculturalism. As country gets more religiously and ethnically diverse, it requires all citizens to be more sensitive about other culture and belief. We can no longer hide behind the shield of 'freedom of expression'. I am not saying that these radicals have the right to defend what they believed even through violent means, but these journalists should understand that mockery of religious belief, particularly Islam is not welcomed by its adherents. Mocking Muhammad the prophet for Muslim is just as bad as making fun of holocaust for most Western countries.

      Comment


      • #4
        From the Reuters article:

        "This is bad for everyone - particularly for Muslims despite the fact that Islam is a fine religion. It risks making a bad situation worse," Cecile Electon, an arts worker who described herself as an atheist, told Reuters at a vigil on Paris's Place de la Republique attended by 35,000 people.
        There is a growing fracture in between communities in France and more and more people are drifting to the extreme right political parties. In 2017, France will have in its government a sizable number of ministers issued from the extreme right Front National. This is tomorrow. What a shame.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by atlantis View Post
          From the Reuters article:



          There is a growing fracture in between communities in France and more and more people are drifting to the extreme right political parties. In 2017, France will have in its government a sizable number of ministers issued from the extreme right Front National. This is tomorrow. What a shame.
          Indeed, extremism breeds extremism on both ends.

          Already, there are gatherings to "fight islam" being organised in France. I think these people are missing the point completely!

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          • #6
            There was an interesting discussion on CNN this morning and one of the commentators spoke about the Muslim terrorist's long term plans. One of the terrorist's main plans was to get France and other countries to become more "anti-Islam" and create a stronger right wing government that would isolate and persecute more and more moderate Muslims, which in turn would make them an easier target for the terrorist to recruit into ISIS or Al Qaeda.

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            • #7
              I read they were kinda really pushing the envelope on mocking islam
              http://www.wsj.com/articles/brendan-...ght-1420664843
              In their eyes, the publication’s “crime” was to be insufficiently respectful of Islam. Charlie Hebdo has become famous, or infamous, for mocking Muhammad. In 2006 it reprinted the prophet-baiting Danish cartoons. More recently it renamed itself Shariah Hebdo for a special issue and listed Muhammad as a guest editor. It has employed various French cartoonists to draw the prophet in a less-than-flattering light.
              If the last 2 sentence is true, I think thats kinda in bad taste. Not to the level where you-must-die-now, but definitely not cool. Its like going to someone and pushing them, asking to be punched.

              Anyway, I was reading the wsj article and below is a part I found particularly well written:
              that their attack can also be seen as a more barbaric expression of what is a worryingly mainstream trend: the culture of offence-taking and the urge to destroy ideas that upset certain people’s sensibilities. Across Europe today, the feelings of offended people are too often elevated above the freedoms of thought and speech. Theaters have rewritten plays lest they cause offence to Muslims. An arts institution as respectable as the Barbican in London ditched an exhibition that was branded offensive by the self-elected spokespeople of black communities. Outraged feminists forced a British television channel to pull a show they felt was sexist. A Swedish pastor was given a one-month suspended prison sentence for describing homosexuality as a “tumor.” French actress Brigitte Bardot has been arrested five times for criticizing the Islamic ritual slaughter of animals. Students at no less an academy than Oxford shut down a debate about abortion by threatening to turn up and disrupt it.

              None of the silencers in these cases did anything even remotely comparable to the barbarism in Paris on Wednesday. But they do all speak to, and help create, a new climate of intolerance, a widespread culture of disdain for anyone who causes offence or who tramples on modern orthodoxies.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Chilled. View Post
                I read they were kinda really pushing the envelope on mocking islam
                http://www.wsj.com/articles/brendan-...ght-1420664843

                If the last 2 sentence is true, I think thats kinda in bad taste. Not to the level where you-must-die-now, but definitely not cool. Its like going to someone and pushing them, asking to be punched.
                Don't agree. We're talking about cartoonists lampooning organized religion here. Not tolerated in an awful lot of countries in Asia, but de rigeur in most secular W democracies.

                The UK Guardian traced this back to French satirists mocking Marie Antoinette during the revolution, pretty cool in my opinion.
                Vengeance is mine; I will repay.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Chilled. View Post
                  If the last 2 sentence is true, I think thats kinda in bad taste. Not to the level where you-must-die-now, but definitely not cool. Its like going to someone and pushing them, asking to be punched.
                  Charlie hebdo is a post May 1968 french newspaper. It has to be classified as a left/extreme left publication with quite a few of its past editors and journalists having been militants of anarchist factions in their younger years. It has always been a satirical newspaper, viscerally antireligious which targeted ANY religion. Just for the record, their caricatures attacking catholicism and christianity have always been far, FAR more satirical and harsh than any of the one targeting Islam.

                  Even though I was politically pretty far from them, I admit having read quite a few Charlie Hebdo's paper when I was in France and have enjoyed some of their cartoons and articles.

                  As a retribution of their Charia Hebdo publication the newspaper had to deal with a first terrorist attack and continuous threats. However they were not of the breed you can impress or coerce.

                  Cabu, one of the caricaturists who died in the recent attack was perhaps the most well known french caricaturist. I am 44 years old and I think I've seen some of his many caricatures in several publications since I know how to read.

                  If you disagree with any publication, you take them to court. Charlie Hebdo has been many time sentenced for various reason but I believe that none of the caricature they published in their Charia Hebdo edition was infracting french laws. In 2007, following a trial initiated by the french muslim associations, the justice decision was confirming that at no moment the intention of the newspaper was to offense gratuitiously and deliberately, and that due to the fact that it was CLEARLY a satirical publication, that no one was forced to read the content or see the caricatures since it is a paying newspaper and not a caricature on a billboard in a public area, its publication should be considered legit and its contested content part of what authorizes the freedom of expression under french law.

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                  • #10
                    Again a very sad day for free speech. It seems they want the west to hate Muslims, which I find so distasteful. I know so many Muslims in Indonesia, and see how pained they are when these horrible events take place.
                    Sasa Bule is having a bayi!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by halfmanhalfbeer View Post
                      PonyEx whilst I agree with your sentiment the problem comes on where do you draw the line? This question is why in many Western countries freedom of speech is enshrined in law. Whether it was right or wrong to print the cartoons is not to my mind the issue, it is the right of a person to print or say what he feels without having to expect some feral brainwashed manic to burst through his door with an AK47.

                      The holocaust has been often mocked, and questioned and denied, but I cannot recall any Jews resorting to slaughtering innocent people as a result of these comments?

                      This is such a grim event, and as another poster has said it will only create deeper divisions in France which is already experiencing a drift to the right. Germany has its anti-Islamification marches, the right wing is on the march in the UK and across the Scandinavian countries........this isn't going to end well.
                      I do understand that freedom of speech is one of the tenets of democracy in western countries. But with the inclusion of immigrants from other part of the worlds and their cultural practice into their democratic society, there should be an increasing awareness amongst people in western countries about their different values. I didn't mean to shift this issue from freedom of speech principle and Islamic values to holocaust denial. But as we all know in many European countries, denying the holocaust and other crimes against humanity is illegal despite freedom of speech.

                      I share your concern that this tragedy will lead to social division in society. The muslim communities that might not agree with these radicals have to deal with anti-Islam blacklash.
                      Last edited by ponyexpress; 08-01-15, 17:07.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        The french government has passed a decree announcing a three day national mourning with all the flags of the republic being at half mast to honor the 12 victims. This is only the fifth time in the history of the fifth republic (emerged on October 1958 with the current Constitution) that such measures are taken. A national mourning has been declared in the past only for the death of former presidents Charles de Gaulle, Georges Pompidou and Francois Mitterand and following September 11th.

                        Cabu and Georges Wolinski, two of the slaughtered journalists were at 70 years old and 80 years old respectively, true Legends of the humoristic political and satirical caricatures.

                        Reports of an hand grenade launched against against a kebab shop and a mosque (Villefranche-sur-SaƓne [COLOR=#000000][FONT=Georgia])[/FONT][/COLOR] and hand gun fire at a masjid in two different cities (Le mans and Port-la-Nouvelle) have hit the news media today. No victim, so far.

                        The two suspects on the run have been allegedly localized by the police in the North of France. They are reportedly armed with AK47 and an RPG...
                        Last edited by atlantis; 08-01-15, 17:40.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by ponyexpress View Post
                          I do understand that freedom of speech is one of the tenets of democracy in western countries. But with the inclusion of immigrants from other part of the worlds and their cultural practice into their democratic society, there should be an increasing awareness amongst people in western countries about their different values. I didn't mean to shift this issue from freedom of speech principle and Islamic values to holocaust denial. But as we all know in many European countries, denying the holocaust and other crimes against humanity is illegal despite freedom of speech.

                          I share your concern that this tragedy will lead to social division in society. The muslim communities that might not agree with these radicals have to deal with anti-Islam blacklash.
                          There are anti-French and anti-France publications by hard line Muslims (and others). Does that hurt our sensibilities as French people? Yes, I suppose it could. But so what? What's the big deal? It is a satirical journal, so it publishes satirical content. It goes both ways, as it should.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Meanwhile, a gunman armed with a handgun and automatic rifle, wearing a bulletproof vest has opened fire on a police officer South of Paris in Montrouge. This is fresh news so details are sketchy. Source (in French): https://fr.news.yahoo.com/fusillade-...090502150.html

                            EDIT: The police woman has died from her injuries while a municipal worker got hurt trying to stop the gunman. The perpetrator is still on the run.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by ponyexpress View Post
                              It's sad news but this tragedy will open up many topics of discussion on multiculturalism. As country gets more religiously and ethnically diverse, it requires all citizens to be more sensitive about other culture and belief. We can no longer hide behind the shield of 'freedom of expression'. I am not saying that these radicals have the right to defend what they believed even through violent means, but these journalists should understand that mockery of religious belief, particularly Islam is not welcomed by its adherents. Mocking Muhammad the prophet for Muslim is just as bad as making fun of holocaust for most Western countries.
                              Throw in the towel you mean? As Rushdie said "respect for religion is code for fear of religion" Mocking a belief system is not the same as mocking an actual historical massacre of millions of people. Here's Rushdie's statement in full

                              "[COLOR=#282828][FONT=georgia]“I stand with [/FONT][/COLOR]Charlie Hebdo[COLOR=#282828][FONT=georgia], as we all must, to defend the art of satire, which has always been a force for liberty and against tyranny, dishonesty and stupidity,” he wrote in a statement [/FONT][/COLOR]posted[COLOR=#282828][FONT=georgia] by the[/FONT][/COLOR]Guardian[COLOR=#282828][FONT=georgia]. Gunmen killed [/FONT][/COLOR]at least 12 people[COLOR=#282828][FONT=georgia] in the paper’s offices before fleeing the scene in France’s deadliest terrorist attack in recent memory.[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#282828][FONT=georgia]“Religion, a medieval form of unreason, when combined with modern weaponry becomes a real threat to our freedoms,” Rushie wrote. “This religious totalitarianism has caused a deadly mutation in the heart of Islam and we see the tragic consequences in Paris today.”[/FONT][/COLOR]
                              "[COLOR=#000000][FONT=Helvetica Neue]I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it.[/FONT][/COLOR]"
                              George Bernard Shaw

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