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  • #31
    Originally posted by jstar View Post
    I'm not familiar with this Monis, Michelle?

    Anyway, the hostage situation in Gent (Belgium) was also ended; unrelated since it probably had to do with drug deals.
    No, I'd not heard of him previously.
    Things happen for a reason...

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    • #32
      23.47 Allegedly police sources have stated gunman and one hostage deceased plus other hostages injured. (Source Twitter)
      Things happen for a reason...

      Comment


      • #33
        Two hostages are confirmed dead. RIP

        From www.smh.com.au:

        What we do know
        The siege is over. Police stormed the building after hostages began running from the cafe just after 2am. Multiple shots were fired.

        Three people are confirmed dead. One deceased person is the gunman, aged 50. The other two are hostages, a man aged 34 and a woman aged 38. A policeman was also shot in the face. His injuries are not critical.

        NSW Police have launched a critical incident investigation.

        The gunman is Man Haron Monis. He was out on bail for numerous charges including accessory to murder and sexual assault. He is not believed to have any formal links to any terror organisation.

        Monis was a "self-styled cleric" with no role in any mosque. The gunman had previously sent letters to the families of Australian soliders killed in Afghanistan and to political leaders, including former prime minister Kevin Rudd and Prime Minister Tony Abbott.

        He was granted asylum in Australia in 1996. He was born in Iran.

        There were 17 hostages inside the Lindt cafe. Five escaped yesterday. Six escaped uninjured just after 2am. Two of the remaining hostages were confirmed dead. At least four were taken to hospital via ambulance.


        What we don't know
        How the crescendo was reached. We know one man was seen running from the cafe just after 2am. Several others ran out soon after, before the sound of gunshots. There is speculation that the hostage group had been put in two sections. One group may have escaped, which may have precipitated gun fire.

        Police Commissioner Andrew Scipione said: "I understand there was a number of gunshots that were heard, which caused officers to move straight to a what we call an EA, an emergency action plan, and that caused them to enter."

        Who fired first. It is not yet known whether police started firing or were responding to the gunman firing shots. Commissioner Scipione said these details will be the subject of a critical incident investigation.

        What specifically motivated the gunman. We do know he had been fighting a long and unsuccessful battle over his conviction for sending offensive letters to the families of dead Australian soldiers between 2007 and 2009.

        How it was that Man Haron Monis was out on bail.

        There are reports the gunman lost an appeal at the High Court on Friday. Details unknown at 6am Tuesday.

        Comment


        • #34
          About Monis:

          The man who held more than a dozen people hostage, placing Sydney's CBD into lockdown is no stranger to the NSW police or the judiciary.
          Self-described cleric, Man Haron Monis, 50, first came to attention of police when he penned poisonous letters to the family of dead Australian soldiers seven years ago.


          Last year he was charged with being an accessory to the murder of his ex-wife and mother of two.

          Most recently, he was charged with more than 50 allegations of indecent and sexual assault relating to time allegedly spent as a self-proclaimed "spiritual healer" who dealt with black magic at a premises in western Sydney more than a decade ago.

          Monis, who has also gone by the names of Sheikh Haron and Mohammad Hassan Manteghi, was born in Iran and most recently has been living at Bexley North in Sydney's south.

          He recently likened himself on his own webpage to Wikileaks founder Julian Assange, claiming the most recent charges against him have been laid for "political reasons".

          His website also carries a quote, posted earlier this month stating: "I used to be a Rafidi, but not any more. Now I am a Muslim, Alhamdu Lillah".
          It has been Monis' on-going legal battle for his conviction for penning the poisonous letters to the families of dead Australian soldiers between 2007 and 2009 that has consumed him.

          It is understood Monday's incident followed an unsuccessful, last-ditch attempt in the High Court on Friday to have the charges overturned.
          Monis was sentenced to 300 hours of community service and placed on a two year good behaviour bond for the "offensive and deplorable letters" sent with the assistance of his girlfriend Amirah Droudis.

          They were sent to the families of Private Luke Worsley and Lance Corporal Jason Marks, who were killed in Afghanistan in 2007 and 2008.

          He also sent a letter in 2009 to the family of the Austrade official Craig Senger, who was killed in the bombing of the Marriott Hotel in Jakarta in 2007.

          Monis claimed the letters were his own version of a "flower basket" or "condolence card".

          Bree Till, widow of Sergeant Brett Till, killed while defusing a bomb on March 12, 2009, said at the time of his conviction: "We sat reading these letters (which) made out to be something supportive but then the juxtaposition of this man accusing my husband of being a child-killer while dictating how I should raise my children. It was scary," she said.

          He fought the validity of the charges all the way to the High Court arguing they were political and only sought to persuade the families to oppose Australia's military involvement in Afghanistan.

          But when he lost that battle, and had to stand trial, he pleaded guilty to all 12 charges against him in August 2013.

          But his problems with the law did not end there. Monis is currently on bail in relation two separate, serious cases.

          He was charged in November 2013 with being an accessory before and after the fact to the murder of his ex-wife Noleen Hayson Pal.

          Ms Pal was stabbed and set alight in a Werrington apartment block.

          Droudis has been charged with the murder.

          And then in April this year, Monis was charged by sex crimes squad detectives with the indecent and sexual assault of a woman in western Sydney in 2002.

          Police allege that Monis was a self-proclaimed "spiritual healer" who operated out of premises on Station Street at Wentworthville.

          News of his arrest prompted more victims to come forward and Monis was hit with an additional 40 charges in October.

          It is alleged that Monis placed ads in local newspapers offering "spiritual consultation".

          He claimed to be an expert in astrology, numerology, meditation and black magic.

          Monis has posted online that the police charges are part of a witch hunt against him.
          "Since the Australian government cannot tolerate Sheikh Haron's activity, is trying to damage his image by these false accusations, and also for putting pressure on him to stop his activity and keep him silent, but God willing Man Haron Monis will not stop his political activity against oppression," he writes in a description of himself on his website, sheikhharon.com

          His former Facebook page, pulled down on Monday night as the siege continued had 14,725 "likes" when it was shut down.

          Comment


          • #35
            From the BBC

            [FONT=arial][SIZE=2]"[COLOR=#404040]Adam Houda, a well-known Sydney solicitor who had represented Man Haron Monis, is the latest in a long line of people to question the dead gunman's sanity, describing him as "mad as a cut snake".

            "[/COLOR][COLOR=#404040]New York Times Tehran correspondent [/COLOR]Thomas Erdbrink tweets:[COLOR=#404040] Former classmate of Sydney attacker "Sheikh Haron" tells me he has never met a more crazier person in his life. "Completely nuts".

            "[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][COLOR=#404040][FONT=Helmet][FONT=arial][SIZE=2]Iranian Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Marziyeh Afkham has condemned hostage taker Man Haron Monis, arguing that his poor mental condition was "obvious". Mrs Afkham said that Iran had repeatedly raised concerns about Monis - an asylum seeker from Iran - to Australian officials over the last two decades. She said that resorting to violence in the name of Islam was not acceptable" [/SIZE][/FONT]

            [/FONT][/COLOR]http://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-australia-30475711
            "[COLOR=#000000][FONT=Helvetica Neue]I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it.[/FONT][/COLOR]"
            George Bernard Shaw

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            • #36
              I wasn't aware of the bit in bold

              [SIZE=3][COLOR=#767676][FONT=Guardian Text Egyptian Web][/FONT][/COLOR][FONT=Guardian Text Egyptian Web][FONT=arial]To many Australians, regardless of the suspect’s motivations, the siege was the sum of all fears – an event that has moved from being considered fanciful in the post-9/11 days to almost inevitable just over a decade later. More Australians per capita than almost any other nationality have travelled to join Isis and Jabhat al-Nusra, a statistic that disturbs the government and preoccupies the intelligence community.[/FONT][/FONT][COLOR=#767676][FONT=Guardian Text Egyptian Web]

              [/FONT][/COLOR][/SIZE]http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/live/2014/dec/15/sydney-cafe-siege-hostage-man-haron-monis-live-coverage
              "[COLOR=#000000][FONT=Helvetica Neue]I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it.[/FONT][/COLOR]"
              George Bernard Shaw

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by lantern View Post
                I wasn't aware of the bit in bold

                [SIZE=3][FONT=Guardian Text Egyptian Web][FONT=arial]To many Australians, regardless of the suspect’s motivations, the siege was the sum of all fears – an event that has moved from being considered fanciful in the post-9/11 days to almost inevitable just over a decade later. More Australians per capita than almost any other nationality have travelled to join Isis and Jabhat al-Nusra, a statistic that disturbs the government and preoccupies the intelligence community.[/FONT][/FONT][/SIZE]http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/live/2014/dec/15/sydney-cafe-siege-hostage-man-haron-monis-live-coverage
                If it's not too far off topic, does anyone (who has lived in both places) have an opinion about which country has more religious fundamentalism, Australia or America? I only ask because I met a few Australians who would have fit in perfectly in my old fundamentalist group. That and because the ADL's plan of action from post #19 seems like something we would have done.

                (Just want to be clear that this was long ago and far away. I am no longer interested in religion, except as it allows me to have interesting but pointless arguments. Oh, and the course of action that the ADL is proposing is both criminal and despicable.)
                Last edited by Happyman; 16-12-14, 05:51.

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                • #38
                  RIP to the deceased. Hope none of them were friends or family members of you guys.

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                  • #39
                    RIP to the two hostages killed

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      [SIZE=4][FONT=palatino linotype]what i am curious about is reports say "[COLOR=#323232]THE manager of the Lindt cafe who was fatally shot in the Martin Place siege is being praised as a hero, responsible for allowing others trapped in the cafe to escape[/COLOR]" - so we know he was fatally shot by the gunman while trying to save others. whereas for ms katrina dawson, "[COLOR=#323232]Ms Dawson was tragically killed trying to defend her pregnant friend[/COLOR]" - it doesn't tell us how she was gunned down.

                      while i commend the australian police for the valiant rescue efforts and commitment to save everyone, i would like some clear accountability to how both innocent hostages died. this is assumption but could ms. dawson have been fatally shot by the australian police while protecting her pregnant colleague trying to escape in the line of gunfire? reason why i say this is because there is only one gunman, if he was faced with oncoming gunfire by the police, his reaction should be to fire at all the police to defend himself not hostages.

                      i am not trying to play the blame game here - i don't think any australian police should be held liable if that was ever the case - innocent lives were lost as a result of a deranged gunman/extremists's violent actions. period. - i just hope for more transparency and honesty from the government/police.

                      RIP ms katrina dawson and tori johnson (indeed a hero).[/FONT][/SIZE]
                      Last edited by topsykretts; 16-12-14, 08:46.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        He had a shotgun. Scatter could come into play for deaths and the wounded.
                        [COLOR=#333333][FONT=Verdana]Some love to milk Apostate.[/FONT][/COLOR]

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by lantern View Post
                          From the BBC

                          [FONT=arial][SIZE=2]"[COLOR=#404040]Adam Houda, a well-known Sydney solicitor who had represented Man Haron Monis, is the latest in a long line of people to question the dead gunman's sanity, describing him as "mad as a cut snake".

                          "[/COLOR][COLOR=#404040]New York Times Tehran correspondent [/COLOR]Thomas Erdbrink tweets:[COLOR=#404040] Former classmate of Sydney attacker "Sheikh Haron" tells me he has never met a more crazier person in his life. "Completely nuts".

                          "[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][COLOR=#404040][FONT=Helmet][FONT=arial][SIZE=2]Iranian Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Marziyeh Afkham has condemned hostage taker Man Haron Monis, arguing that his poor mental condition was "obvious". Mrs Afkham said that Iran had repeatedly raised concerns about Monis - an asylum seeker from Iran - to Australian officials over the last two decades. She said that resorting to violence in the name of Islam was not acceptable" [/SIZE][/FONT]

                          [/FONT][/COLOR]http://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-australia-30475711
                          Does it not seem odd that his lawyer would comment publicly and in such a way?
                          Things happen for a reason...

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by topsykretts View Post
                            [SIZE=4][FONT=palatino linotype]what i am curious about is reports say "[COLOR=#323232]THE manager of the Lindt cafe who was fatally shot in the Martin Place siege is being praised as a hero, responsible for allowing others trapped in the cafe to escape[/COLOR]" - so we know he was fatally shot by the gunman while trying to save others. whereas for ms katrina dawson, "[COLOR=#323232]Ms Dawson was tragically killed trying to defend her pregnant friend[/COLOR]" - it doesn't tell us how she was gunned down.

                            while i commend the australian police for the valiant rescue efforts and commitment to save everyone, i would like some clear accountability to how both innocent hostages died. this is assumption but could ms. dawson have been fatally shot by the australian police while protecting her pregnant colleague trying to escape in the line of gunfire? reason why i say this is because there is only one gunman, if he was faced with oncoming gunfire by the police, his reaction should be to fire at all the police to defend himself not hostages.

                            i am not trying to play the blame game here - i don't think any australian police should be held liable if that was ever the case - innocent lives were lost as a result of a deranged gunman/extremists's violent actions. period. - i just hope for more transparency and honesty from the government/police.

                            RIP ms katrina dawson and tori johnson (indeed a hero).[/FONT][/SIZE]
                            From media reports the gunman's weapon was automatic or semiautomatic.
                            We will have to wait and see once more definite official information is released.
                            Things happen for a reason...

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Michelle O'Brien View Post
                              Does it not seem odd that his lawyer would comment publicly and in such a way?
                              the guy is dead now anyway!

                              and who knows, maybe he previously plead insanity on behalf of monis in the legal proceedings he was involved in. (actually i do not think the proceedings were that advanced to reach that stage).

                              it is an interesting point though which you raised earlier that despite monis' radical/fanatical actions, he was still granted bail. err in court's judgment.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Michelle O'Brien View Post
                                From media reports the gunman's weapon was automatic or semiautomatic.
                                We will have to wait and see once more definite official information is released.
                                [SIZE=4][FONT=palatino linotype]
                                what i am saying is even if it was indeed a case of the victim caught in a line of police gunfire, the police will never admit to that as official information.[/FONT][/SIZE]

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