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  • hostage situation in sydney CBD

    [SIZE=4][FONT=palatino linotype]"[COLOR=#323232]There are reports that two gunmen have taken hostages, some of which are standing with their hands up at the windows in the popular Lindt chocolate shop, which has two or three entrances. There is also a black and white flag being held up in a window. It is believed to be the Black Standard, a jihadist flag.[/COLOR]"

    http://www.news.com.au/national/a-ma...-1227156241649

    and so it begins... the threat is real and it is happening much closer to us than we hope.

    [/FONT][/SIZE]

  • #2
    Originally posted by topsykretts View Post
    [SIZE=4][FONT=palatino linotype]"[COLOR=#323232]There are reports that two gunmen have taken hostages, some of which are standing with their hands up at the windows in the popular Lindt chocolate shop, which has two or three entrances. There is also a black and white flag being held up in a window. It is believed to be the Black Standard, a jihadist flag.[/COLOR]"

    http://www.news.com.au/national/a-ma...-1227156241649

    and so it begins... the threat is real and it is happening much closer to us than we hope.

    [/FONT][/SIZE]
    To be fair, very little concrete information is currently known.
    Things happen for a reason...

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Michelle O'Brien View Post
      To be fair, very little concrete information is currently known.
      Unfortunately you rarely rob at gun point chocolate shops. I doubt it is out of gluttony and believe there is something much more sinister and politically motivated going on.

      Comment


      • #4
        [SIZE=4][FONT=palatino linotype]and while little concrete evidence is known, it is a fact that there is some element of political and/or religious driving factor. hostages are asked to hold [COLOR=#323232]the Black Standard, a jihadist flag, up against the windows.[/COLOR][/FONT]

        [FONT=palatino linotype][COLOR=#323232]little new developments have been updated on the news since police moved reporters to an area out of vision of the siege area.[/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE]

        Comment


        • #5
          And all of that currently is conjecture. It COULD (just) be a mentally ill person.
          Wait for the facts.
          Things happen for a reason...

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Michelle O'Brien View Post
            It COULD (just) be a mentally ill person.
            Wait for the facts.
            I am not sure what the fact that it could be a mentally ill person would change to the dramatic situation of the hostages. The facts are that an undisclosed number of hostages are being held hostages and that they have been forced to held up a black flag with the shahada printed on it. Not really conjectures.

            Whoever is holding the gun, the situation IS sinister and the fact that an Islamic flag has been given to the hostages to be held IS a political message.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by atlantis View Post
              I am not sure what the fact that it could be a mentally ill person would change to the dramatic situation of the hostages. The facts are that an undisclosed number of hostages are being held hostages and that they have been forced to held up a black flag with the shahada printed on it. Not really conjectures.

              Whoever is holding the gun, the situation IS sinister and the fact that an Islamic flag has been given to the hostages to be held IS a political message.
              Indeed. However, local authorities are still throwing out question marks about the motives of the hostage takers.

              "Prime minister Tony Abbott and NSW police commissioner Andrew Scipione say the motives of the siege are not known."

              http://www.theguardian.com/australia...lace-cafe-live

              The "chatter" concerning attacks in Australia has largely been focused on public executions committed by lone wolves. This seems to fit that bill. Here's hoping he (or they?) are killed before they can pull it off.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by DanInAceh View Post
                Indeed. However, local authorities are still throwing out question marks about the motives of the hostage takers.

                "Prime minister Tony Abbott and NSW police commissioner Andrew Scipione say the motives of the siege are not known."
                I believe that you understand that these statements are part of the normal procedure when a hostage situation arises, don't you.

                Being in contact with the hostage takers for a few hours now and with 5 hostages having fled from the cafe, I believe that NSW police has a clearer understanding of the situation than what they say about it to the press.

                They have to manage a dramatic situation but also have to take in account the public opinion reaction, which in itself could create more troubles than the hostage situation they have to deal with immediately.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Fair points. I read IS as Islamic State not IS.
                  It's the motive that is not yet clear. Press coverage though has cited both one and two gunman/men. We shall see. Terrifying whatever the basis.
                  Things happen for a reason...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by atlantis View Post
                    I believe that you understand that these statements are part of the normal procedure when a hostage situation arises, don't you.

                    Being in contact with the hostage takers for a few hours now and with 5 hostages having fled from the cafe, I believe that NSW police has a clearer understanding of the situation than what they say about it to the press.

                    They have to manage a dramatic situation but also have to take in account the public opinion reaction, which in itself could create more troubles than the hostage situation they have to deal with immediately.
                    I understand when you're being condescending. That much I get.

                    What sort of political leverage could they gain from obfuscating the obvious? None, though perhaps they fear race riots on the level of Cronulla. Anyone who is set off in such a manner isn't going to be reassured one way or the other by comments from Abbott.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by DanInAceh View Post
                      I understand when you're being condescending. That much I get.
                      I've re-read my post and failed to spot where you could feel that I was condescending. Anyway, if you felt so, Please accept my apologies. It wasn't my intention.

                      What they try to do is to avoid or minimize panic, Dan, and avoid as much as possible any form of pressure on the negociation. At 2 pm oz time, a high ranking NSW police officer was still stating that they were working out the meaning of the flag. Do you believe that they didn't figure out it was the shahada?

                      When an hostage situation arise, the less you give to the medias, the better it is. That's a bottom rule.
                      Last edited by atlantis; 15-12-14, 14:02.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/lindt-choc...15-1278cx.html

                        6:01pm: This just in from the SMH reporter Tim Elliott:
                        The Martin Place hostage taker has requested police locate an Islamic State flag for him, according to a senior figure in the Sydney Muslim community.
                        "The man inside the café said that if police could get him an ISIS flag, then he would release some hostages," said the senior figure.
                        "A contact I know from Counter Terrorism phoned me four or five times today asking if I could find them an ISIS flag, in a hurry. At one stage I had a team of people trying to find one," the senior figure told Elliott.
                        After receiving the calls, the community leader rang everyone she knew: "I must have called 50 people trying to find an IS flag. I found plenty of people who had one, but they didn't want to give them up. They also believed that the police were trying set them up."
                        The source said that the request may indicate the gunman wishes to be seen as part of IS.
                        "Or it could mean that he could be from Jabhat Al-Nusra, which hates IS, and he might want to burn that IS flag to make a statement," the source said.
                        Possession of the ISIS flag is illegal.



                        Wonder if the police is still officially wondering about the nature of the threat they have to deal with? Perhaps you won't admit or realize it Dan, but the attitude of the police and politics is exactly what is required for the public opinion to remain calm and away from panic.
                        Last edited by atlantis; 11-01-15, 08:24.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by atlantis View Post
                          http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/lindt-choc...15-1278cx.html

                          6:01pm: This just in from the SMH reporter Tim Elliott:
                          The Martin Place hostage taker has requested police locate an Islamic State flag for him, according to a senior figure in the Sydney Muslim community.
                          "The man inside the café said that if police could get him an ISIS flag, then he would release some hostages," said the senior figure.
                          "A contact I know from Counter Terrorism phoned me four or five times today asking if I could find them an ISIS flag, in a hurry. At one stage I had a team of people trying to find one," the senior figure told Elliott.
                          After receiving the calls, the community leader rang everyone she knew: "I must have called 50 people trying to find an IS flag. I found plenty of people who had one, but they didn't want to give them up. They also believed that the police were trying set them up."
                          The source said that the request may indicate the gunman wishes to be seen as part of IS.
                          "Or it could mean that he could be from Jabhat Al-Nusra, which hates IS, and he might want to burn that IS flag to make a statement," the source said.
                          Possession of the ISIS flag is illegal.
                          That's reassuring.


                          Originally posted by atlantis View Post
                          Wonder if the police is still officially wondering about the nature of the threat they have to deal with? Perhaps you won't admit or realize it than, but the attitude of the police and politics is exactly what is required for the public opinion to remain calm and away from panic.
                          How's that supposed to maintain calm? Because they omitted the obvious?

                          They didn't omit that because they were worried about maintaining calm, they did so because the concern is conflating Islam with terrorism and how a political career can be jeopardized by accusations of "racism" (despite Islam not being a race).

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by DanInAceh View Post
                            How's that supposed to maintain calm? Because they omitted the obvious?
                            It is the case in ANY hostage crisis, Dan. Not only those who involve Islam. Police communicate a minima with the medias when such situation arise and this until the outcome of the crisis. It has nothing to do with being scared of being accused to be racist.

                            Didn't you notice that police have not communicate on the number of hostages, the number of hostage takers, the alleged bomb planted in the business district...etc. Is that by fear of conflating with Islam or being labelled racist?
                            Last edited by atlantis; 15-12-14, 13:43.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              [COLOR=#000000][FONT=Arial][FONT=inherit]6:39pm:[/FONT]
                              Update from NSW Police

                              [FONT=inherit]Burn says that there will be an exclusion zone in place around Martin Place, but otherwise people should come into the city as normal.[/FONT]
                              [FONT=inherit]"It is a sensitive negotiation," she said.[/FONT]
                              [FONT=inherit]"We are prevented from providing a great deal of information. Please be assured though that all police resources are in place.[/FONT]
                              [FONT=inherit]"We have the best negotiators in the world."[/FONT]
                              [/FONT][/COLOR]
                              [COLOR=#000000][FONT=Arial][FONT=inherit]6:36pm: Burn says that the situation is now unfolding as a "negotiation" with the armed person.[/FONT]
                              [FONT=inherit]She said the approach was the deal with the situation "peacefully."[/FONT]
                              [FONT=inherit]"It might take a bit of time but that is our approach."[/FONT]
                              [FONT=inherit]"We will be working into the night if this situation continues and we will be looking at arrangements for tomorrow."[/FONT]
                              [/FONT][/COLOR]
                              [COLOR=#000000][FONT=Arial][FONT=inherit]6:35pm: Deputy Police Commissioner Catherine Burn is now providing an update on the hostage crisis[/FONT]
                              [FONT=inherit]"We know that there are people being held in the building at Martin Place. We know that there is a person who is armed also in the premises."[/FONT]
                              [/FONT][/COLOR]
                              [COLOR=#000000][FONT=Arial][FONT=inherit]6:32pm: NSW Police have requested that all demands reportedly made by the gunman through hostages not be made public.[/FONT]
                              [FONT=inherit]This blog is retracting reports of multiple demands that had come from a number of media outlets, including Fairfax Media
                              [/FONT]
                              [/FONT][/COLOR]
                              • Burn will not say whether the five people to emerge from the cafe escaped or were released.
                              • The police will not confirm what the gunman is asking for. Nor will they confirm how many people remain in the building.

                              [COLOR=#000000][FONT=Arial][FONT=inherit]


                              [/FONT]
                              [/FONT][/COLOR]Perhaps that the official request to the medias from the police is also made in order for the medias not to be labelled racist? Or so is the fact that the police maintain the black out concerning the fact that hostages have been released or escaped ? Dan?

                              Perhaps you may find me again condescending when pointing out at the ludicrousness of your statement concerning the Police attitude but I suggest that you read more about hostage crisis negotiation. They are just doing their job in order to keep away public opinion of panicking or interfering in anyway with the ongoing negotiations. I also note that so far they do this job well because they've managed to avoid the hostage taker to have an open tribune and by doing so they also have avoided that he/they become more radical with the attention given.[COLOR=#000000][FONT=Arial]
                              [/FONT][/COLOR]
                              Last edited by atlantis; 15-12-14, 14:15.

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