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In Islam, Women Not Equal to Men

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  • In Islam, Women Not Equal to Men

    That's according to Turkey's Erdogan http://www.voanews.com/content/turke...n/2532296.html.

  • #2
    Originally posted by sul1995 View Post
    That's according to Turkey's Erdogan http://www.voanews.com/content/turke...n/2532296.html.
    You sound surprised.
    Things happen for a reason...

    Comment


    • #3
      Not a surprise at all.
      Sasa Bule is having a bayi!

      Comment


      • #4
        Equality is not a feature of Islam. A man is considered "imam," leader of his household.

        Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) says, "Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand."

        This will ruffle some feathers, but that's what it says. It's also possible to argue that women are greater than men in other spheres, Islam's conception of man and woman is that the two are fundamentally different and not at all equal. To argue that they are the same under the law in a Western sense is fine, but to deny their differences in biology, desires and thinking is absurd.

        Edit: it is important to note, however, that they are spiritually equal and are required to perform the same prayers and obligations of the religion.

        Comment


        • #5
          Of course, Islam is not alone in being patriarchal. Let's be honest: all Abrahamic religion is.

          "You shall not covet your neighbor’s house. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or his male or female servant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.”

          "And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do. If she please not her master, who hath betrothed her to himself, then shall he let her be redeemed: to sell her unto a strange nation he shall have no power, seeing he hath dealt deceitfully with her.

          And if he have betrothed her unto his son, he shall deal with her after the manner of daughters.

          If he take him another wife; her food, her raiment, and her duty of marriage, shall he not diminish.

          And if he do not these three unto her, then shall she go out free without money."

          Comment


          • #6
            Now let's not be holier than the pope here; both other Abrahamic religions (Judaism and Christianity) promoted and flourished in patriarchal societies. That translated itself in men having leading roles in the religious functions, the family life and even the state (How many countries do you know -besides Sweden and Iceland- that have a fifty-fifty government?)
            Last edited by jstar; 25-11-14, 12:32. Reason: Crossed message with Dan's latest
            [FONT=arial black]
            [/FONT]

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Michelle O'Brien View Post
              You sound surprised.
              Just wondering how many Muslim men & women in Indonesia accept that… but if there is such a survey, I think it will be like asking a Christian if he believes the Bible.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by sul1995 View Post
                Just wondering how many Muslim men & women in Indonesia accept that… but if there is such a survey, I think it will be like asking a Christian if he believes the Bible.
                My guess would be that a majority of Indonesians will indicate that men & women are NOT equal, not necessarily just Muslim Indonesians.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Guess this is why I'm agnostic.
                  Things happen for a reason...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    In a survey by one of the Universities in Indonesia and published in the Lampung Tribune a few months ago, it was reported that 64% of Indonesian Women surveyed said they wanted a more dominate role in the bedroom while 39% of the males wanted the dominate role in the bedroom. Problem was, the religious teachings make them just stay with the same things they have been taught. maybe they need more communication.
                    [COLOR=#333333][FONT=Verdana]Some love to milk Apostate.[/FONT][/COLOR]

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Did they specify what a dominant role is?
                      [FONT=arial black]
                      [/FONT]

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        [SIZE=3][FONT=arial][SIZE=2]
                        Originally posted by jstar View Post
                        Now let's not be holier than the pope here; both other Abrahamic religions (Judaism and Christianity) promoted and flourished in patriarchal societies. That translated itself in men having leading roles in the religious functions, the family life and even the state (How many countries do you know -besides Sweden and Iceland- that have a fifty-fifty government?)
                        There are structural differences in modern societies that continue to limit women's participation and undoubtedly has historic links to patriarchal religions. However I don't think you can attribute it to current religious attitudes in Western societies, especially in Europe.

                        "Rwanda had the highest number of women parliamentarians worldwide. Women there have won 63.8 per cent of seats in the lower house" The Nordic countries have a 42.1 percent participation.
                        http://www.unwomen.org/en/what-we-do...ts-and-figures

                        Here's some info on women in ministerial positions worldwide. Some notables are:

                        Nicaragua(57.1%, Sweden(56.5% and Finland(50%) are 1, 2 and 3 respectively.
                        Turkey is 89th on the list with a 4% participation.
                        UK - 15.6%
                        US - 31.8%
                        Indonesia - 11.8%
                        Thailand - 8.3%
                        Malaysia - 6.3%
                        Singapore - 5.9%

                        Apart from the obvious suspects, like Saudi Arabia (0%) it would appear that there's more at play than just religion. The graph in the link indicate the percentage of different portfolios held by women and it shows a definite gender bias with the majority of women ministers being assigned 'softer' portfolios such as Social Affairs, Family, Youth, Elderly, Disabled etc.
                        http://ipu.org/pdf/publications/wmnmap14_en.pdf [/SIZE]


                        [/FONT][/SIZE]
                        "[COLOR=#000000][FONT=Helvetica Neue]I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it.[/FONT][/COLOR]"
                        George Bernard Shaw

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by sul1995 View Post
                          That's according to Turkey's Erdogan http://www.voanews.com/content/turke...n/2532296.html.
                          Seems it's part of a general trend since Erdogan took power. The Deputy Prime Minister had this to say:

                          "[COLOR=#333333][FONT=Verdana]Women should not laugh out loud in public, Deputy Prime Minister Bülent Arınç has said while complaining about “moral corruption” in Turkey. [/FONT][/COLOR]

                          [COLOR=#333333][FONT=Verdana]Speaking during an Eid el-Fitr meeting on July 28, Arınç described his ideal of the chaste man or woman, saying they should both have a sense of shame and honor.[/FONT][/COLOR]

                          [COLOR=#333333][FONT=Verdana]“Chastity is so important. It is not only a name. It is an ornament for both women and men. [She] will have chasteness. Man will have it, too. He will not be a womanizer. He will be bound to his wife. He will love his children. [The woman] will know what is haram and not haram. She will not laugh in public. She will not be inviting in her attitudes and will protect her chasteness,” Arınç said, adding that people had abandoned their values today.[/FONT][/COLOR]

                          [COLOR=#333333][FONT=Verdana]People needs to discover the Quran once again, Arınç said, adding that there had been a regression on moral grounds".
                          [/FONT][/COLOR]
                          http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/wom...&NewsCatID=338


                          [COLOR=#000000][FONT=Verdana]"It's becoming increasingly difficult to think and live the way one wishes in Turkey," says the world-famous pianist Fazil Say. "Turkey is getting more and more religious," says author Nedim Gürsel. "This policy is leading the country toward totalitarianism," says sculptor Mehmet Aksoy, whose sculpture "The Statue of Humanity," dedicated to peace among Turks and Armenians, was torn down because the premier didn't like it.[/FONT][/COLOR]
                          [COLOR=#000000][FONT=Verdana]
                          The government is also settling a score with pianist Say. An avowed atheist, he had quoted a verse from a poem by the medieval Persian poet Omar Khayyam in a tweet: "You say wine will flow from its rivers. Is heaven a pub? You say two women per believer. Is heaven a brothel?"[/FONT][/COLOR]
                          [COLOR=#000000][FONT=Verdana]The pianist was eventually prosecuted for "insulting religious values." It didn't surprise him, says Say. In fact, he adds, nothing surprises him any more in a country whose prime minister, Erdogan, once wanted to abolish the ballet.

                          http://www.spiegel.de/international/...-a-839568.html

                          [COLOR=#333333][FONT=Georgia]Last year, Turkey was rated 120 out of 136 countries in terms of gender gaps in education, health, politics and economics by the World economic Forum
                          [/FONT][/COLOR]
                          http://www.weforum.org/reports/globa...ap-report-2013 [/FONT][/COLOR]
                          Last edited by lantern; 25-11-14, 22:01.
                          "[COLOR=#000000][FONT=Helvetica Neue]I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it.[/FONT][/COLOR]"
                          George Bernard Shaw

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by DanInAceh View Post
                            Equality is not a feature of Islam. A man is considered "imam," leader of his household.

                            Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) says, "Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand."

                            This will ruffle some feathers, but that's what it says. It's also possible to argue that women are greater than men in other spheres, Islam's conception of man and woman is that the two are fundamentally different and not at all equal. To argue that they are the same under the law in a Western sense is fine, but to deny their differences in biology, desires and thinking is absurd.

                            Edit: it is important to note, however, that they are spiritually equal and are required to perform the same prayers and obligations of the religion.
                            Originally posted by DanInAceh View Post
                            Of course, Islam is not alone in being patriarchal. Let's be honest: all Abrahamic religion is.

                            "You shall not covet your neighbor’s house. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or his male or female servant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.”

                            "And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do. If she please not her master, who hath betrothed her to himself, then shall he let her be redeemed: to sell her unto a strange nation he shall have no power, seeing he hath dealt deceitfully with her.

                            And if he have betrothed her unto his son, he shall deal with her after the manner of daughters.

                            If he take him another wife; her food, her raiment, and her duty of marriage, shall he not diminish.

                            And if he do not these three unto her, then shall she go out free without money."
                            this.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              List of places not to take my wife:
                              Saudi Arabia- Check
                              Turkey- Check
                              Egypt- Check
                              ***stan- Check (mostly)

                              Is there anywhere else in particular where females are likely to suffer large amounts of BS on the basis of simply being female and from another culture, or am I gonna have to settle for a list that is consistent with the thread title?

                              Comment

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