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  • Seed of hate, anti-nationalism and Islamic State

    Al Islam p1.JPGAl Islam p2.JPGAl Islam p3.JPGAl Islam p4.JPG

    Found this shocking bulletin (attached jpeg files, tried to attach a pdf file but the size is too big) in the drawer of a terminated employee…

    Bulletin called “AL-ISLAM” published by HIZBUT TAHRIR INDONESIA
    Edition: 695/Th.XXI/1435H (28 February 2014)

    Page 1, #2 Extermination of Muslims by Christian militias (in C.A.R.)
    - mutilations and cannibalism
    - citing the BBC, Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch

    Page 2, #3 - supporters of Christian militias killing & eating Muslims
    - Muslim women raped
    - houses & mosques burned & destroyed
    - torture of Muslims in public

    Page 2, #4 - Muslims killed brutally, beaten painfully until they die
    - cut their organs, burned alive, mutilated & eaten
    - all done with the “cooperation” of the French forces

    Page 3, #5 - nationalism is poison fatal to Muslims
    - nationalism is not Islamic identity

    Page 3, #6 - the importance of Caliphate & Islamic doctrine

    Page 4, #7 - only with Islamic doctrine can Islam return to glory, Muslims protected and oppression stopped

    Page 4, #8 - published every Friday by HIZBUT TAHRIR INDONESIA
    - editorial at Crown Palace A.25, Jl. Prof. Soepomo No.231, Jakarta Selatan 12390

    Dan is right HTI is more dangerous than FPI, I think HTI is more dangerous than IS or ISIS. They are poisoning the minds of young people, planting the seed of hatred for other religions. I think they can be banned for sedition or treason (see Page 3, #5 & #6), in the meantime, their editorial office should be closed by the Jakarta governor. Moderates & patriots of this country should be doing more, otherwise it will be too late.
    Last edited by sul1995; 25-10-14, 17:03.

  • #2
    Originally posted by sul1995 View Post
    [ATTACH]19360[/ATTACH][ATTACH]19361[/ATTACH][ATTACH]19362[/ATTACH][ATTACH]19363[/ATTACH]

    Found this shocking bulletin (attached jpeg files, tried to attach a pdf file but the size is too big) in the drawer of a terminated employee…

    Bulletin called “AL-ISLAM” published by HIZBUT TAHRIR INDONESIA
    Edition: 695/Th.XXI/1435H (28 February 2014)

    Page 1, #2 Extermination of Muslims by Christian militias (in C.A.R.)
    - mutilations and cannibalism
    - citing the BBC, Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch

    Page 2, #3 - supporters of Christian militias killing & eating Muslims
    - Muslim women raped
    - houses & mosques burned & destroyed
    - torture of Muslims in public

    Page 2, #4 - Muslims killed brutally, beaten painfully until they die
    - cut their organs, burned alive, mutilated & eaten
    - all done with the “cooperation” of the French forces

    Page 3, #5 - nationalism is poison fatal to Muslims
    - nationalism is not Islamic identity

    Page 3, #6 - the importance of Caliphate & Islamic doctrine

    Page 4, #7 - only with Islamic doctrine can Islam return to glory, Muslims protected and oppression stopped

    Page 4, #8 - published every Friday by HIZBUT TAHRIR INDONESIA
    - editorial at Crown Palace A.25, Jl. Prof. Soepomo No.231, Jakarta Selatan 12390

    Dan is right HTI is more dangerous than FPI, I think HTI is more dangerous than IS or ISIS. They are poisoning the minds of young people, planting the seed of hatred for other religions. I think they can be banned for sedition or treason (see Page 3, #5 & #6), in the meantime, their editorial office should be closed by the Jakarta governor. Moderates & patriots of this country should be doing more, otherwise it will be too late.
    I don't mind that Hizb ut-Tahrir is hostile to Indonesia; so am I. What I do mind is that they are virulently anti-democracy, which they view as being kufr. Their support for khilafa is fanatical, and their true intention and objective is to replace the government of Indonesia with a caliphate, something I also disagree with.

    To be blunt: Hizb ut-Tahrir is al-Qaeda's JV team. People who fall into the orbit and legitimacy of Hizb ut-Tahrir go on to full blown terrorism later. They are bad news, and I know this as a Muslim. If I see that a masjid is full of their members I know right away that this masjid is particularly conservative with possible terrorist sympathies.

    What is distressing about Indonesia is that they are seen as completely legitimate. This legitimacy allows them to infiltrate the society and press their agenda with supposedly "moderate" voices. They can openly speak about replacing the government with khilafa, and they are totally going to attempt to do so as the years progress. I see them gaining momentum, not losing it. And this is the population of Muslims in Indonesia that I try to get expats to understand, that there is a large and perhaps growing population that seeks what Hizb ut-Tahrir and, in truth, IS seek: global khilafa. They do so because this is Islam's preferred polity, that the religion is both a religion and political system.

    Where Hizb ut-Tahrir is different from and more dangerous than IS is that Hizb ut-Tahrir is highly influential. There's a reason why must Muslim states have banned them.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by DanInAceh View Post
      I don't mind that Hizb ut-Tahrir is hostile to Indonesia; so am I. What I do mind is that they are virulently anti-democracy, which they view as being kufr. Their support for khilafa is fanatical, and their true intention and objective is to replace the government of Indonesia with a caliphate, something I also disagree with.



      What is distressing about Indonesia is that they are seen as completely legitimate. This legitimacy allows them to infiltrate the society and press their agenda with supposedly "moderate" voices. They can openly speak about replacing the government with khilafa, and they are totally going to attempt to do so as the years progress. There's a reason why must Muslim states have banned them.
      In light of the (apparent) fact they openly denounce nationalism, which one might think the Indonesian government would see as a serious threat, why do you think it is so tolerant towards them? Fear of stirring the pot further / faster by trying to suppress them? That's the only reasoning I can think of.
      [FONT=Comic Sans MS]Warden: "What we got here ... is failure to communicate."

      The Dude: "Oh yeah? Well that's just, like, your opinion, man."[/FONT]

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Mister Bule View Post
        In light of the (apparent) fact they openly denounce nationalism, which one might think the Indonesian government would see as a serious threat, why do you think it is so tolerant towards them? Fear of stirring the pot further / faster by trying to suppress them? That's the only reasoning I can think of.
        I think there's two reasons.

        1.) They don't cause a lot of disorder. Hizb ut-Tahrir is very good at presenting an air of legitimacy. They don't organize riots or shakedowns. This is why the expats are more familiar with FPI; Hizb ut-Tahrir isn't a fixture of local media reports. They tend to stay under the radar.

        2.) They invoke the legitimacy of Islam. Because Indonesia's system allows for one religion to be more equal than others, Hizb ut-Tahrir can frame contempt for their political stance as contempt for Islam itself. They reason that khilafa is the preferred polity of Islam, and they're correct about that. However, they also insist that only their vision for khilafa is accurate, one that is rule by consensus of specially chosen (by an inner circle) leaders.

        I also suspect that much of the Muslim leadership of Indonesia quietly supports this. I demonstrated evidence that at least Muhammadiyah supports their activities; I suspect NU does as well.

        Comment


        • #5
          @Dan
          Good info, but you're making me a sad panda. I like it here (in Indo). Please deliver "But, the good news is..." statement post haste. Thx.

          Comment


          • #6
            Plenty of good news out there, even when breaking a few laws. Spent 15 minutes, alone, one at a time, in a room, with seven lovely married and unmarried Acehnese women (24-34), with hands as brown as toast, on the weekend, without their fathers or brothers. Took a 10 year old girl - berjilbabed - walking in the main street to buy an ice-cream without her dad and mum. We bought it in a Pante Pirak store, owned by Abubakar Usman from Sigli, cold as ice, for 3000rupiah. A young Chinese Indonesian sans jilbab took the order. Shook hands with the tough as guts proprietor of a coffee shop staffed unusually and entirely by young women. (Tower Kopi - just behind KFC). No seeds of hate there. Just good coffee and company. And all on Islamic new year's day.
            Oh, and very soon, there will be direct flights from Medan to Sabang, where the Jazz Festival was one day ago.

            A second "Oh" ...... on the same day... more or less..

            Badan Narkotika Nasional (BNN), menangkap truk bermuatan delapan ton ganja kering asal Aceh di Riau.

            "Sekarang ini, saya akan mengeksekusi dan mengumumkan delapan ton ganja kering di Riau tersebut," kata Kepala BNN Komjen Pol. Dr. Anang Iskandar usai Peringatan Nasional Tahun Baru Islam 1 Muharram 1436 Hijriyah di Gelora Bung Karno, Senayan Jakarta, Minggu (26/10).
            Last edited by johntap; 26-10-14, 23:06.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by johntap View Post
              Plenty of good news out there. Spent 15 minutes, one at a time, in a room, with seven lovely married and unmarried Acehnese women (24-34) on the weekend, without their fathers or brothers. Took a 10 year old girl - berjilbabed - walking in the main street to buy an ice-cream without her dad and mum. We bought it in a Pante Pirak store, owned by Abubakar Usman from Sigli, cold as ice, for 3000rupiah. A young Chinese Indonesian sans jilbab took the order. Shook hands with the tough as guts proprietor of a coffee shop staffed unusually and entirely by young women. (Tower Kopi). No seeds of hate there. Just good coffee and company. And all on Islamic new year's day.
              Oh, and very soon, there will be direct flights from Medan to Sabang, where the Jazz Festival was one day ago.
              Thank you. That sounds more like the place where I live. I might be putting my head in the sand, but I like to think "The Crazies" who want to destroy myself and my family are a very small minority group. Otherwise, it seems like the most logical option would be for me to take my family, go back to my own place of origin, and join a group of "The Crazies" there. (Not that they would accept: a chink, an atheist, and a half-breed slant-eyed kid.)

              This is a lovely country. I am lucky to have come here.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by johntap View Post
                Plenty of good news out there, even when breaking a few laws. Spent 15 minutes, alone, one at a time, in a room, with seven lovely married and unmarried Acehnese women (24-34), with hands as brown as toast, on the weekend, without their fathers or brothers. Took a 10 year old girl - berjilbabed - walking in the main street to buy an ice-cream without her dad and mum. We bought it in a Pante Pirak store, owned by Abubakar Usman from Sigli, cold as ice, for 3000rupiah. A young Chinese Indonesian sans jilbab took the order. Shook hands with the tough as guts proprietor of a coffee shop staffed unusually and entirely by young women. (Tower Kopi - just behind KFC). No seeds of hate there. Just good coffee and company. And all on Islamic new year's day.
                Oh, and very soon, there will be direct flights from Medan to Sabang, where the Jazz Festival was one day ago.

                A second "Oh" ...... on the same day... more or less..
                You bought it in PP, eh? The Acehnese like to refer to people from Pidie (where Sigli is) as "black Chinese." My wife is from Pidie.

                Acehnese women have many strong role models to look after, and I've long argued that the Acehnese are CONSERVATIVE but not fanatical, loony or brainwashed. They can look at women like Cut Nyak Dhien and Cut Meutia as their role models whereas on Java they look to Kartini (lol) as a role model. World of difference.

                Originally posted by johntap View Post
                Badan Narkotika Nasional (BNN), menangkap truk bermuatan delapan ton ganja kering asal Aceh di Riau.

                "Sekarang ini, saya akan mengeksekusi dan mengumumkan delapan ton ganja kering di Riau tersebut," kata Kepala BNN Komjen Pol. Dr. Anang Iskandar usai Peringatan Nasional Tahun Baru Islam 1 Muharram 1436 Hijriyah di Gelora Bung Karno, Senayan Jakarta, Minggu (26/10).
                The Acehnese use ganja traditionally, and I've argued that it falls into a gray area as far as Islam goes. Aceh is actually a good place to get it, its consumption (though not always its smoking) is overlooked.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I like the place. It moves slowly and it is easy to see where social and economic development needs to occur. As for who pulls the strings I have no idea. And as for the women, they are strong and self-assured, and incredibly mindful of family. They point out that 'personal independence' is not an option. I must say that I did detect a feeling that when Indonesia celebrates, nationally, Aceh finds it hard to party with the same enthusiasm. If I can put it like that.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by johntap View Post
                    I like the place. It moves slowly and it is easy to see where social and economic development needs to occur. As for who pulls the strings I have no idea. And as for the women, they are strong and self-assured, and incredibly mindful of family. They point out that 'personal independence' is not an option. I must say that I did detect a feeling that when Indonesia celebrates, nationally, Aceh finds it hard to party with the same enthusiasm. If I can put it like that.
                    Aceh is one of those places where you hear so much about how awful it is that when you get there and see the reality it's a huge *let down*. Aceh rocks. The locals are incredibly friendly.

                    Who pulls the strings is mostly former GAM. They've split into multiple camps these days, but they're the power running Aceh and still on a platform of Aceh nationalism.

                    Outsiders imagine that women in Aceh are like, barefoot and pregnant 24/7, never coming out of their home except in a total faceveil or something like that. Total BS. Once you get out of the major cities the women let their hair down. They're still conservative and Muslim, but they're comfortable in what they've been doing for centuries.

                    Aceh has more Partai Aceh flags than Indonesian flags, I'll tell ya that. Independence in some form is almost universally desired, except by foreigners like the Javanese and Chinese.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by DanInAceh View Post
                      Aceh has more Partai Aceh flags than Indonesian flags, I'll tell ya that. Independence in some form is almost universally desired, except by foreigners like the Javanese and Chinese.
                      Are those real Chinese people, who are citizens of or were born in China, or are you doing the "pribumi are the only people who don't deserve to be labeled" thing? (Sorry if I seem overly annoyed. I am.)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Happyman View Post
                        Are those real Chinese people, who are citizens of or were born in China, or are you doing the "pribumi are the only people who don't deserve to be labeled" thing? (Sorry if I seem overly annoyed. I am.)
                        You can deal with it. The Acehnese are the indigenous people of Aceh. Other people, even if they come from neighboring islands, are not. Note that you got perturbed with the fact that I said Chinese but not Javanese. Aceh's collective whole views itself as a separate nation, Nanggroe Aceh Darusalaam. They don't have a concept of a supposedly (lol) pluralist nation like Indonesia does, their desire is for an ethnic homeland separate from Indonesia. Even if someday Aceh achieved independence those populations would never be considered natives of the region, not unless they intermarried and adopted the customs of Aceh. They don't mind that foreigners come to live among them, they even claim that Aceh stands for Arab Cina Eropa Hindia. They are all at home with the reality that they are a people of mixed descent.

                        But like hell they're going to let themselves be replaced like the Papuans.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by DanInAceh View Post
                          You can deal with it. The Acehnese are the indigenous people of Aceh. Other people, even if they come from neighboring islands, are not. Note that you got perturbed with the fact that I said Chinese but not Javanese. Aceh's collective whole views itself as a separate nation, Nanggroe Aceh Darusalaam. They don't have a concept of a supposedly (lol) pluralist nation like Indonesia does, their desire is for an ethnic homeland separate from Indonesia. Even if someday Aceh achieved independence those populations would never be considered natives of the region, not unless they intermarried and adopted the customs of Aceh. They don't mind that foreigners come to live among them, they even claim that Aceh stands for Arab Cina Eropa Hindia. They are all at home with the reality that they are a people of mixed descent.

                          But like hell they're going to let themselves be replaced like the Papuans.
                          Javanese people generally self-identify as Javanese, especially those who are migrating for work. I doubt very much that a third generation person of Javanese descent would be referred to as Javanese, especially if they have inter-married and integrated, as you say. I know several Indonesians who do not self-identify as Chinese, as their families have been here for hundreds of years, integrated and inter-married. But, said Indonesians are still labeled as Chinese. They are Sunda speaking locally born Muslims who have never been to China. They are in no way Chinese, and you would be better off mislabeling them as Sundanese or Javanese, as these terms at least describe a culture or place of origin that is accurate, if you insist on singling out the particular "groups" of people who you wish to disregard for reasons other than that of their actual opinion.
                          "Orang Cina" is not generally a term used to denote positive attributes. As it is being applied based solely on the characteristics or body type associated with the native Chinese, but to a person who is not Chinese, it is a racist mislabeling of one of those "ethnic minorities" you like to advocate for. You did a no-no, by accident or intention. I would think a person who has lived in a foreign country for any length of time would understand how petty these labels begin to feel at some point, even when correctly applied.
                          The original question was, in fact, whether or not you were referring to actual Chinese people... Guess not. You are doing the "we are the real locals" thing, which is BS just about anywhere in the world. Are you a "real American" as well, or did your family immigrate, like almost everyone else? I don't know what you're getting at, being a racist on the behalf of some other ethnic group. Is it some sort of cultural evangelism?
                          Just out of curiosity, have you read Guns Germs and Steel?
                          Last edited by Happyman; 28-10-14, 12:07.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Ache people are as indigenous as American white people. If they wanted to proclaim that they are so connected to the land, why not incorporate the indigenous cultures and ethnicity to their struggle. They are trying to base all their laws and lifestyles on the most recent religious conversion. Nothing to do with being indigenous. Dan, it's always like you are saying that the Ache people have never mixed with anyone else of a different area. I doubt that. Do you consider your children indigenous to Ache? If so, those Acheans that mixed with Chinese and Javanees are just as indigenous and lets face it, that is a stretch for making your argument.
                            [COLOR=#333333][FONT=Verdana]Some love to milk Apostate.[/FONT][/COLOR]

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by fastpitch17 View Post
                              Ache people are as indigenous as American white people. If they wanted to proclaim that they are so connected to the land, why not incorporate the indigenous cultures and ethnicity to their struggle. They are trying to base all their laws and lifestyles on the most recent religious conversion. Nothing to do with being indigenous. Dan, it's always like you are saying that the Ache people have never mixed with anyone else of a different area. I doubt that. Do you consider your children indigenous to Ache? If so, those Acheans that mixed with Chinese and Javanees are just as indigenous and lets face it, that is a stretch for making your argument.
                              Uh? They're Austronesians. Look man, I could never be Acehnese, even if I learned the language well and dressed Acehnese and had a whole harem of Acehnese wives. My kids could be, but never me. I'm an outsider, a foreigner.

                              Most recent religious conversion? The problem with you and a lot of the expats is that you harken back to a similarly foreign set of religions, Hinduism and Buddhism, and act like that was the "authentic" and "original" beliefs of the Austronesians. Who knows what the original belief system was? It doesn't matter at this point because it's gone, lost to time. Islam is the religious identity of the Acehnese people, and probably will be for the foreseeable future. The Aceh SULTANATE was a... dum dum duuuuuuum Muslim polity.

                              And I never say or said that anyone is a full-blood anything. I just had a post where I, again, stated that the Acehnese like to say that Aceh stands for Arab Cina Eropa Hindia. They had lots of trade, they welcomed mixed marriages and welcomed those offspring into the fold. They don't mind if people come to Aceh and their offspring become Acehnese and those people adopt Aceh's culture and values.

                              What I was speaking of are actual foreigners who aren't intermarried and who aren't indigenous to Aceh, like the Javanese colonists and the Han. If they'd like to intermarry and become part of the fabric of Aceh, fine. Happens all the time, and the Acehnese are comfortable with that. But what Indonesia actually seeks is to REPLACE ethnic minorities. People who go there and remain of their own culture and identity are NOT indigenous. If you're a Javanese and you come to Aceh and marry another Javanese and you espouse the culture of Java, are you Acehnese? By that "logic" we may as well throw out all ethnic identities. Everybody is everything.

                              That's just absurd, and I really don't have time to explain how ridiculous that is.

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