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Chapter Six - In Which Malala Wins The Nobel Peace Prize

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  • Mister Bule
    replied
    Ah, yes, that would have been the spate of improvised "mummy" jokes. Well, if that wasn't time well spent, I don't know what is!

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  • johntap
    replied
    Originally posted by Mister Bule View Post
    Why, is it a kind of visual form of adderall or rytalin? "Teletubbies" and "Thomas, the Friendly Tank Engine" have worked well in the past.

    I thought it was "Masha", by the way ...
    Indonesians say Marsha. The one where they are making jam should make your fingers sticky enough to stop posting - you posted 7 times in ten minutes from 9.54,or something like that
    Last edited by johntap; 13-10-14, 23:24. Reason: time problem

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  • johntap
    replied
    Ok, thanks. It got me thinking about whether it can ever be good or noble to be an apologist. I still don't know. Is it always used in the pejorative sense?
    Last edited by johntap; 13-10-14, 23:23. Reason: apple

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  • Mister Bule
    replied
    Originally posted by johntap View Post
    Listen Hopalong, you better ask Sam Harris about that.

    I don't think you are hypocritical at all; there are tons of your thoughts here to support this. Hyperactive maybe.

    ETA: if you want a label, I would call you a liberal muslim who speaks out but at the same time fears being called an apologist (Your word).
    Oh no, I am definitely not seeking labels for myself. And no, I don't fear being called an apologist ... if you think so, you must have misread or misinterpreted what I said before. I was talking about views expressed by others, quoted in an article I read. If I ever find it again, I'll link it.

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  • Mister Bule
    replied
    Originally posted by johntap View Post
    Can I suggest you go watch an episode of Marsha and the Bear?
    Why, is it a kind of visual form of adderall or rytalin? "Teletubbies" and "Thomas, the Friendly Tank Engine" have worked well in the past.

    I thought it was "Masha", by the way ...

    Leave a comment:


  • johntap
    replied
    Can I suggest you go watch an episode of Marsha and the Bear?

    Leave a comment:


  • Mister Bule
    replied
    Originally posted by johntap View Post

    I don't think you are hypocritical at all; there are tons of your thoughts here to support this. Hyperactive maybe.
    I could probably cop to "hyperbolic" occasionally, as well. Ah well, better too fast than too slow, I suppose.

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  • Mister Bule
    replied
    "Hard choice", eh? Say no more! A wink is as good as a nudge to a blind man!

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  • waarmstrong
    replied
    Liberalism versus a religion obsessed with the mechanics of sex. Seemingly not a hard choice for some Catholics and Muslims.

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  • johntap
    replied
    Listen Hopalong, you better ask Sam Harris about that.

    I don't think you are hypocritical at all; there are tons of your thoughts here to support this. Hyperactive maybe.

    ETA: if you want a label, I would call you a liberal muslim who speaks out but at the same time fears being called an apologist (Your word).
    Last edited by johntap; 13-10-14, 22:43.

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  • Mister Bule
    replied
    Originally posted by johntap View Post
    Mr b

    I can understand all that. By liberal, I was meaning based upon the principles of liberalism.

    If you don't mind, I am going to put an extract here from an Australian journalist, that has been rushing around my head all day. You may or may not want to comment.


    As atheist Sam Harris told the sulking actor Ben Affleck on Real Time with Bill Maher last week, the charge of Islamophobia hurled at people who denounce the poor "treatment of women, homosexuals, free thinkers and public intellectuals in the Muslim world" has seen liberals fail the very principles they espouse.
    As Maher himself continuously points out, "freedom of speech, to practice any religion you want without fear of violence, to leave a religion, equality for women, for minorities including homosexuals, these are liberal principles liberals applaud but, then when you say, in the Muslim world, this is what's lacking, then they get upset".
    [COLOR=#000000]
    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/comment/islamo...#ixzz3FwtDg3u3
    [/COLOR]
    John, could you work on just expressing whatever's on your otak(soft landing) in plain words, please? Mebbe practice in front of a mirror or something? I'd have an easier time following a one-legged kangaroo.


    If someone believes in equal educational opportunities for boys and girls, men and women, that makes them "liberal" in their values, right? And since some Muslim practices and beliefs seem at loggerheads with liberal values, that makes "liberal" Muslims like me, as well as non-Muslim liberals who defend non-liberal Muslims, hypocrites? Have I got it right now?

    Leave a comment:


  • PhilippeD
    replied
    Originally posted by DanInAceh View Post
    Wait, what? You're gay? Or you just look like a gay dude?

    Muslim societies typically have two classes of gay men, those who are closeted and those who dress as women and become prostitutes. The latter group isn't necessarily trans, I might add, but they're generally outcasts.

    Holding hands and what not is generally not considered gay, and they may even go further provided it's not butt sex, which they deem to be "full on gay."

    I can't speak to the wisdom of such a system for designating who is gay, but if you actually ask most "gay" men in Muslim societies they'll tell you this:

    "I'm not gay, this is a phase."

    And they truly do believe that.

    edit: it should be noted that this is hardly representative of greater acceptance. it is, in fact, the polar opposite.
    Nope, that was what plus or less what the guy said.

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  • DanInAceh
    replied
    Originally posted by PhilippeD View Post
    One of my comment on my first month in Indonesia: "gosh! are they all gay? they all walk around holding hand, arm around the shoulder and with a lot of promiscuity.
    My brother who have know a lot of Moroccan told me about a Moroccan who find it more easy to live in Morocco: Yeah, it's forbidden to be gay there, but it's very easy to not been recognize, it's how everyone act! While here in Montreal, I'm spotted as gay at the first glance!
    Wait, what? You're gay? Or you just look like a gay dude?

    Muslim societies typically have two classes of gay men, those who are closeted and those who dress as women and become prostitutes. The latter group isn't necessarily trans, I might add, but they're generally outcasts.

    Holding hands and what not is generally not considered gay, and they may even go further provided it's not butt sex, which they deem to be "full on gay."

    I can't speak to the wisdom of such a system for designating who is gay, but if you actually ask most "gay" men in Muslim societies they'll tell you this:

    "I'm not gay, this is a phase."

    And they truly do believe that.

    edit: it should be noted that this is hardly representative of greater acceptance. it is, in fact, the polar opposite.

    Leave a comment:


  • PhilippeD
    replied
    Originally posted by DanInAceh View Post
    I doubt it. Anal sex is the primary concern with homosexuality, not homosexuality itself, which is why I stated that they could be Muslim if they were largely sexless individuals. Same sex relations are, of course, heavily frowned upon. However, they are far more likely to execute gay men than lesbians.

    Note that the sexual orientation is still completely closeted; that the existence of such a life in Karachi is in opposition with the values of the country and especially the surrounding area. They do not OPENLY do these things, and it's made clear in the article that the religion is opposed to it.

    "[COLOR=#333333][FONT=Arial]Most Pakistanis view homosexuality as sinful. The vast majority of clerics interpret the Qoranic story of Lot as a clear indication that God condemns homosexual men. Some scholars go even further and recommend Sharia-based punishment for "men who have sex with men"."

    And what is the shari'a-informed punishment for men who have sex with men? You get one guess. It's interesting to note that this article glosses over that little factoid, I wonder why? If this blogger for the BBC is wishing to reinvent Pakistan as a land where gayness is welcomed, he should focus on men put to death there and open, out gay men.

    [/FONT][/COLOR]Also, about the transgender searches, Muslims can wrap their minds around transgender better than they can homosexuality. This is why you can openly see, to some degree, effeminate men forced into a third sex. To their minds, this is potentially acceptable because it was not directly prohibited.

    Of course, Pakistan has so many porn searches because its people are sexually repressed to a degree. That's no surprise at all.
    One of my comment on my first month in Indonesia: "gosh! are they all gay? they all walk around holding hand, arm around the shoulder and with a lot of promiscuity.
    My brother who have know a lot of Moroccan told me about a Moroccan who find it more easy to live in Morocco: Yeah, it's forbidden to be gay there, but it's very easy to not been recognize, it's how everyone act! While here in Montreal, I'm spotted as gay at the first glance!

    Leave a comment:


  • DanInAceh
    replied
    Originally posted by lantern View Post
    It appears that Pakistan is full of "blinkered idiots".

    "[COLOR=#333333][FONT=Arial]Pakistan is not the kind of place that most people would associate with gay liberation. But some say the country is a great place to be gay - even describing the port city of Karachi as "a gay man's paradise".[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#333333][FONT=Arial]Underground parties, group sex at shrines and "marriages of convenience" to members of the opposite sex are just some of the surprises that gay Pakistan has to offer. Under its veneer of strict social conformity, the country is bustling with same-sex activity"

    I'm guessing that if Pakistani lesbians were meeting and cavorting on such a scale they would be heavily punished. Such are the advantages of being male in an unequal society. [/FONT][/COLOR]
    I doubt it. Anal sex is the primary concern with homosexuality, not homosexuality itself, which is why I stated that they could be Muslim if they were largely sexless individuals. Same sex relations are, of course, heavily frowned upon. However, they are far more likely to execute gay men than lesbians.

    Note that the sexual orientation is still completely closeted; that the existence of such a life in Karachi is in opposition with the values of the country and especially the surrounding area. They do not OPENLY do these things, and it's made clear in the article that the religion is opposed to it.

    "[COLOR=#333333][FONT=Arial]Most Pakistanis view homosexuality as sinful. The vast majority of clerics interpret the Qoranic story of Lot as a clear indication that God condemns homosexual men. Some scholars go even further and recommend Sharia-based punishment for "men who have sex with men"."

    And what is the shari'a-informed punishment for men who have sex with men? You get one guess. It's interesting to note that this article glosses over that little factoid, I wonder why? If this blogger for the BBC is wishing to reinvent Pakistan as a land where gayness is welcomed, he should focus on men put to death there and open, out gay men.

    [/FONT][/COLOR]Also, about the transgender searches, Muslims can wrap their minds around transgender better than they can homosexuality. This is why you can openly see, to some degree, effeminate men forced into a third sex. To their minds, this is potentially acceptable because it was not directly prohibited.

    Of course, Pakistan has so many porn searches because its people are sexually repressed to a degree. That's no surprise at all.

    Leave a comment:

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