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  • Originally posted by DanInAceh View Post
    An update on Indonesia's contribution to the mujahideen, and it appears that I was correct in my original assessment that more and more would be leaving. 514, as of two months ago, may not seem like much, but the majority of those will return to Indonesia at some point with additional training. And yes, even more will be joining them, possibly over a thousand.

    http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2...s-support.html

    "The government has declared the IS an illegal organization and ideology as they are opposed to Pancasila (Indonesia’s philosophical foundation). But the prohibition has no force of law.

    Unlike in Malaysia and Singapore where IS supporters can be charged and detained upon their departure to the combat zone, local authorities still have no legal basis to do so."

    The bolded portions are highly disturbing. This is evidence that Indonesia is not taking the threat seriously, or even has a fairly high number of sympathizers. For every person who actually takes the plunge to go, there's probably 1,000 others (or more?) quietly supporting such moves. In a country Indonesia's size that's still not a huge number of people, but it's more than enough to cause a major shift in terror activities.
    Thanks for the news, do wish it could be good for once. Doesn't seem likely they would be detained for very long,even if they were detained. How long can the ball roll uphill before it meets the boots of some guy who's world view is simply the polar opposite of the average Americans?

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    • Originally posted by johntap View Post
      an update on Australia's contribution

      [COLOR=#000000][FONT=Arial]Dozens of Australians, mostly young men, have been prevented from leaving Australia to travel to Syria and Iraq to join the Islamic State terrorist group, also known as ISIL. [/FONT][/COLOR]
      [COLOR=#000000][FONT=Arial]About 90 Australians are believed to be fighting with Islamic State and 20 Australians have died. [/FONT][/COLOR]
      Any particular insights given regarding the motives of said young men? Are they all Muslims are are there some "Let's support the underdog (and who gives a crap if he's rabid)!" and "I just hate my own culture, yours must be better!" types as well? I ask because I vaguely recall a story about Americans volunteering to join rebel armies in South America may years ago. (unless I just completely pulled that story out of my ass, which happens)

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      • Happyman, I don't recall any specifics on idealistic US citizens flocking to support South American rebels. But its not unheard of; there were American volunteers fighting with the French during the first world war (Lafayette Escadrille) before the United States entered the war, and there was the Abraham Lincoln Brigade, fighting with those opposing Spanish Fascism during their 1936 to 1939 civil war.

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        • Originally posted by waarmstrong View Post
          Happyman, I don't recall any specifics on idealistic US citizens flocking to support South American rebels. But its not unheard of; there were American volunteers fighting with the French during the first world war (Lafayette Escadrille) before the United States entered the war, and there was the Abraham Lincoln Brigade, fighting with those opposing Spanish Fascism during their 1936 to 1939 civil war.
          Those sound to be quite nice examples, as they were justified after the facts. I was thinking of some Americans going south to participate in revolutions and join guerrilla groups (not that I have anything against Marxism, as such, I'm just not much on going abroad to kill people in their own homeland). Maybe it was a book or film, rather than something that actually happened. I can't come up with anything useful on google. Think I might have to call BS on myself, unless someone remembers something that was not part of the bio of a film character.
          Last edited by Happyman; 10-12-14, 00:02.

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          • Central Intelligence operatives routinely went south to aid those attempting to topple Central and South American regimes which the US government or the United Fruit Company did not like. Of course, these people were not volunteers.

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            • Originally posted by Happyman View Post
              Those sound to be quite nice examples, as they were justified after the facts. I was thinking of some Americans going south to participate in revolutions and join guerrilla groups (not that I have anything against Marxism, as such, I'm just not much on going abroad to kill people in their own homeland). Maybe it was a book or film, rather than something that actually happened. I can't come up with anything useful on google. Think I might have to call BS on myself, unless someone remembers something that was not part of the bio of a film character.
              Revolution on the South America were nationalistic spirited. This hardly call people outside of their country to come die for them.
              Also, most of those nationalist have for goal to kick out foreigner (where American were principally targeted) who have hand down of their prosperity.
              Add both together, it would hardly give will to American to go fight with the rebel "for save their country".

              In another hand... have a though about how much American would be ready to go fight aside the Israeli for help them to defend "their" country, for as much it is their.

              For add to Waarmy comment, not sure where you can put the "Black water group" in all this (if anyone remember the last Iraq carnage that some call "liberation war").
              La motivation vient en se motivant ~ Motivation come by self-motivation

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              • Originally posted by Happyman View Post
                Any particular insights given regarding the motives of said young men? Are they all Muslims are are there some "Let's support the underdog (and who gives a crap if he's rabid)!" and "I just hate my own culture, yours must be better!" types as well? I ask because I vaguely recall a story about Americans volunteering to join rebel armies in South America may years ago. (unless I just completely pulled that story out of my ass, which happens)
                Not to "derail the thread," but they are jihobbyists. Jihad fisibillah is easy and attractive in theory, but jihad in practice is far less attractive. Many recognize once they arrive that they will be cannon fodder. Those who embrace such a death will be pleased, those with some misgivings will be at a loss. Consider this not-so-surprising report on Western Muslims fighting on the front lines as an example. Many are drawn in by the slick propaganda but then are turned off by the realities of war (namely boredom and atrocity being the norm).

                http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...come-back.html

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                • Originally posted by DanInAceh View Post
                  Not to "derail the thread," but they are jihobbyists. Jihad fisibillah is easy and attractive in theory, but jihad in practice is far less attractive. Many recognize once they arrive that they will be cannon fodder. Those who embrace such a death will be pleased, those with some misgivings will be at a loss. Consider this not-so-surprising report on Western Muslims fighting on the front lines as an example. Many are drawn in by the slick propaganda but then are turned off by the realities of war (namely boredom and atrocity being the norm).

                  http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...come-back.html
                  Interesting article, thanks for sharing. It's not really surprising that the "jihobbyists" (I find that absurdly funny) are hating the path they have chosen. When I lived near a training base, there were a lot of people who joined the US military approximately three months before deciding they wished they hadn't. These kids just grind out their four years, as they are under penalty of imprisonment for breach of contract. How much more disappointing it must be for unpaid, unprivileged and probably unappreciated volunteers to fight in a foreign country.

                  On a side note, the article has some people complaining about being given menial tasks, and others complaining about being sent to the front lines. Those seem to be the two main occupations of an army (and lots and lots of training, in developed nations). What do these volunteers imagine they will be doing?
                  Last edited by Happyman; 10-12-14, 13:00.

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                  • One more take on the war. The king seems like a reasonable fellow:

                    DEC 5.The fight against ISIS is "a third world war by other means," Jordan's King Abdullah II told CBS News' Charlie Rose during an interview on Friday morning.

                    The king is currently in Washington and is due to meet with U.S. President Barack Obama later on Friday.

                    "This is a Muslim problem," Abdullah said, referring to the challenge posed by the Islamic State. "We need to take ownership of this. We need to stand up and say what is right and what is wrong."

                    The king added that Arab and Muslim leaders around the world were beginning to work together to defeat ISIS, though he was unwilling to give details.

                    "This is a war inside of Islam," he said. "So we have to own up to it. We have to take the lead. And we have to start fighting back. And all of us have to make that decision and stand up to the plate and take our responsibilities."

                    Despite the threat of ISIS, the king still considers the Israeli-Palestinian conflict the core issue in the Middle East.

                    "You know, whether it's true or not, that argument is still being used by the extremists," he said. "And countries around the world realize that they have to solve the problem for their benefit."

                    ETA: You can see the press release or watch the video

                    This is from the King's Press release:

                    “This is no reflection of our religion. This is evil. And all of us have got to make that decision. We have to stand up and say: ‘This is the line that is drawn in the sand. And those that believe in right should stand on this side. And those that don’t have to make a decision to stand on the other.’ It’s clearly a fight between good and evil. I think it’s a generational fight… I think this is a Third World War by other means.”
                    The King said that the war against terrorism is a long, multi-phase one, which entails a diversity of factors, including a counter ideology in its final stage, stressing “I hope the short-term part of it is going to be the military. The medium term is a security aspect of it. But the long term is going to be the ideological one. So, what I’m saying is, we as Muslims have got to look ourselves in the mirror and realise that we have this problem; make this very difficult call, and then all of us come together and clearly say that, you know, these people are renegades. These people have nothing to do with Islam.”
                    Last edited by johntap; 10-12-14, 13:21.

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                    • Originally posted by Happyman View Post
                      Interesting article, thanks for sharing. It's not really surprising that the "jihobbyists" (I find that absurdly funny) are hating the path they have chosen. When I lived near a training base, there were a lot of people who joined the US military approximately three months before deciding they wished they hadn't. These kids just grind out their four years, as they are under penalty of imprisonment for breach of contract. How much more disappointing it must be for unpaid, unprivileged and probably unappreciated volunteers to fight in a foreign country.

                      On a side note, the article has some people complaining about being given menial tasks, and others complaining about being sent to the front lines. Those seem to be the two main occupations of an army (and lots and lots of training, in developed nations). What do these volunteers imagine they will be doing?
                      It's instructive to examine the propaganda that is used to recruit mujahideen. The propaganda, usually a video of fighters singing and smiling and eating together and praying together and dying noble deaths, is juxtaposed with a catchy nasheed (Islamic song). Their notion of what fighting is like is the same as all other young men who naively seek glory on the battlefield. The reality is of course, mostly boredom, but they believe these propaganda videos.

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                      • Just heard on the radio news a mother is suing her local European government because it was so easy for her son to get away (even without passport); border controls should have stopped him she says.
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                        • Originally posted by DanInAceh View Post
                          It's instructive to examine the propaganda that is used to recruit mujahideen. The propaganda, usually a video of fighters singing and smiling and eating together and praying together and dying noble deaths, is juxtaposed with a catchy nasheed (Islamic song). Their notion of what fighting is like is the same as all other young men who naively seek glory on the battlefield. The reality is of course, mostly boredom, but they believe these propaganda videos.
                          I remember when I was in my late teens being fascinated by campaigns by the military to attract recruits. It all seemed incredibly adventurous. The reality, in many cases, is mindless boredom and being told what to do all the time.
                          "[COLOR=#000000][FONT=Helvetica Neue]I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it.[/FONT][/COLOR]"
                          George Bernard Shaw

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                          • Originally posted by jstar View Post
                            Just heard on the radio news a mother is suing her local European government because it was so easy for her son to get away (even without passport); border controls should have stopped him she says.
                            Good luck with that. How the f..k is the state responsible? It's not a prison. Perhaps all those victims of crimes perpetrated by illegal immigrants can sue as well.
                            "[COLOR=#000000][FONT=Helvetica Neue]I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it.[/FONT][/COLOR]"
                            George Bernard Shaw

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