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  • Seeking to Scrap Direct Presidential Elections

    This is a death threat to a Democracy. Treason at least but through diplomatic channels. Trouble is a brewing in the streets and it's gonna get ugly.

    http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2...ial-polls.html

    [COLOR=#333333][FONT=Arial]"This time around, the Red-and-White Coalition is seeking to scrap direct presidential elections and transfer the people’s political right to elect their national leader to the People’s Consultative Assembly (MPR)."[/FONT][/COLOR]
    [COLOR=#333333][FONT=Verdana]Some love to milk Apostate.[/FONT][/COLOR]

  • #2
    Yes, I read this article earlier today and it gave me chills...

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    • #3
      Originally posted by El_Goretto View Post
      Yes, I read this article earlier today and it gave me chills...
      This is a coup since it is being directed by a non government leader. This should be cause for arrest and imprisonment. I just can't see the people standing for this. Too many families sacrificed members to get to where Indonesia is today. I think this is going to get very ugly.
      [COLOR=#333333][FONT=Verdana]Some love to milk Apostate.[/FONT][/COLOR]

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      • #4
        Originally posted by fastpitch17 View Post
        This is a coup since it is being directed by a non government leader. This should be cause for arrest and imprisonment. I just can't see the people standing for this. Too many families sacrificed members to get to where Indonesia is today. I think this is going to get very ugly.
        Well, if it has to come to this then it needs to happen. Sometimes it needs to get worse before it gets better and if this is the only thing that will stop these crooks from undemocratically seizing power then so be it. As I read on one of the JP comments: more nail biting to come.

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        • #5
          We were fooled!! He is asking 1998 incident. Now, will the army back up Jokowi and his supporters?

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Missnaughty View Post
            We were fooled!! He is asking 1998 incident. Now, will the army back up Jokowi and his supporters?
            The Army in all likelihood will end up backing whomever they feel will give them the most benefit. The route they are taking is not through armed conflict (even though it could lead to that by the people) but through changing 122 laws and then the constitution. They have the majority in the legislature to run all over the rights and wishes of the people.
            [COLOR=#333333][FONT=Verdana]Some love to milk Apostate.[/FONT][/COLOR]

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            • #7
              I am very disappointed in the reaction to the earlier decision to scrap local direct elections, this was a blatant power grab by a group of politicians that was opposed by 81% of the people, but what did the people do? Nothing.

              Threaten to raise the price of petrol by 5000 rupes and you have mobs on the street, publish a cartoon and there's death threats, implement a local minimum wage increase by less than was hoped for and the DPR is besieged, deprive the people of their democratic rights and all one hears is the sound of crickets chirruping.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Gongdangdia View Post
                I am very disappointed in the reaction to the earlier decision to scrap local direct elections, this was a blatant power grab by a group of politicians that was opposed by 81% of the people, but what did the people do? Nothing.

                Threaten to raise the price of petrol by 5000 rupes and you have mobs on the street, publish a cartoon and there's death threats, implement a local minimum wage increase by less than was hoped for and the DPR is besieged, deprive the people of their democratic rights and all one hears is the sound of crickets chirruping.
                Maybe people are waiting for the outcome of the judicial review at the MK?

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by El_Goretto View Post
                  Maybe people are waiting for the outcome of the judicial review at the MK?
                  Maybe. Doubtful though...
                  The mobs don't appear unless something is (or is perceived) to be directly hitting them economically (fuel subsidies, minimum wage etc), or religiously (irrational response). Removing democracy doesn't cost anyone Rp 2,- so I doubt people will bother.

                  In the end, to paraphrase the French philosopher Joseph de Maistre: Every country has the government it deserves.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by dafluff View Post
                    Maybe. Doubtful though...
                    The mobs don't appear unless something is (or is perceived) to be directly hitting them economically (fuel subsidies, minimum wage etc), or religiously (irrational response). Removing democracy doesn't cost anyone Rp 2,- so I doubt people will bother.

                    In the end, to paraphrase the French philosopher Joseph de Maistre: Every country has the government it deserves.
                    There have been peaceful demonstrations against the loss of direct elections. Those demonstrations will probably grow. Stay tuned.
                    [COLOR=#333333][FONT=Verdana]Some love to milk Apostate.[/FONT][/COLOR]

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by fastpitch17 View Post
                      There have been peaceful demonstrations against the loss of direct elections. Those demonstrations will probably grow. Stay tuned.
                      Maybe, and I certainly hope you are right but I can't help think it would have kicked off right away if there had been any real outrage.

                      I look at what's happening in Hong Kong today and I have to say I feel very sad for this country, one I have grown to love.

                      The old reformasi spirit seems to have died a sad death.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by dafluff View Post
                        Maybe. Doubtful though...
                        The mobs don't appear unless something is (or is perceived) to be directly hitting them economically (fuel subsidies, minimum wage etc), or religiously (irrational response). Removing democracy doesn't cost anyone Rp 2,- so I doubt people will bother.
                        Really? 80% of people's voices were ignored and you assumed that lost will only cost Rp 2,- for us? 80% of people's voices! That took high price, bro! I don't know if you are aware of things around here after that shameless walkout, but as far as I know in my university, there are lots of plans both for doing demonstration and/or attaching our identity card as 'penggugat' in judicial review. Yeah... so peaceful nation huh. I personally prefer to go to Constitutional Court first because that last choice is still left for people! It will be also constitutionally-correct if people confront regulations with Constitution. I still have faith to Constitutional court.

                        About this case, I am mad of course! But it might contain intervention from foreign countries as well, we don't know. Maybe it's "divide et impera" that trying to make us raise guns to our Indonesian fellows, so I, as Indonesian, will just observe the news and wait for a while for now until MK declare something.

                        About military, it's indeed possible that they will support Red-White coalition or the ex-military figure. But! The condition of military right now is much different with their condition in New Order Regime. Military is not allowed by law to jump into politics now and they only receive order from President! Either the President is still SBY or Jokowi later. So, I still have a ray of hope that the military won't be in same bed with the bad men. Or even the worst case, if the military 'membelot' from President, then President will be in different side with them and he'll give consequences on military as The Supreme Commander of Armed Forces (Panglima Tertinggi).

                        I dont believe the spirit of Reformation is dead yet! If it's dead, noone would give care about that walkout and gave harsh reactions.
                        Last edited by FreeApple; 01-10-14, 13:12. Reason: typh0
                        [COLOR=#000000][FONT=proxnov-reg]Threw a line out to pull you to me
                        [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#000000][FONT=proxnov-reg]If you don't get it then you don't get it.[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#000000][FONT=proxnov-reg][/FONT][/COLOR]

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                        • #13
                          The constitution as it stands today mandates direct Presidential election. Constitutional changes require 2/3 quorum and 2/3 supermajority in the MPR. Nobody has that kind of power in MPR today.
                          Last edited by Nimbus; 01-10-14, 01:25.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Nimbus View Post
                            The constitution as it stands today mandates direct Presidential election. Constitutional changes require 2/3 quorum and 2/3 supermajority in the MPR. Nobody has that kind of power in MPR today.
                            The red/white are saying that they plan on changing 122 current laws that will allow them to get the constitution changed. These changes will only take a majority vote.
                            [COLOR=#333333][FONT=Verdana]Some love to milk Apostate.[/FONT][/COLOR]

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Is the role of the Speaker of the House in Indonesia the same as the Speaker of the House in the US? How much of an impact does the Speaker have on which laws get to go through a vote or not?

                              The RW coalition is putting their guys as Speaker of the DPR and the MPR from what I've read today. I'm just wondering how much more power that really gives them.

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