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  • #31
    Originally posted by sul1995 View Post
    Under Jokowi's presidency, I'm not optimistic.
    Would you prefer Prabowo's presidency where such a thing is actually endorsed? Prabowo courted FPI after all, and his party promises to "menjaga kemurnian agama" (safeguard the purity of religion), which is euphemism for support of hard line religious (islamic) ideology.

    Jokowi in his victory speech offered an unprecedented gesture (by an Indonesian president) by addressing his audience not only with the islamic greeting of 'assalamualaikum' but also with greetings of other religions.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Nimbus View Post
      Would you prefer Prabowo's presidency where such a thing is actually endorsed? Prabowo courted FPI after all, and his party promises to "menjaga kemurnian agama" (safeguard the purity of religion), which is euphemism for support of hard line religious (islamic) ideology.

      Jokowi in his victory speech offered an unprecedented gesture (by an Indonesian president) by addressing his audience not only with the islamic greeting of 'assalamualaikum' but also with greetings of other religions.
      FPI, while a nuisance, is entirely a different creature from Hizb ut-Tahrir and IS. Perhaps he courted the former as well, I don't know, but what I do know is that these people don't actually respect or recognize nation-states or borders. Their dream is a united, universal khilafa. Hizb ut-Tahrir is willing to work within the system to get its way, but the end result is a call for the complete dissolution of Indonesia. I can't say I totally disagree with such a desire, but I would prefer it be broken up into smaller nation-states. They want it all, and they want it part of a larger caliphate.

      Prabowo, while a strongman and odious in the extreme, would keep a better check on such organizations. He would do so because he wants to keep the power for himself, because autocratic regimes have an easier time controlling Islamic fundamentalists. They'd still be there, and their leaders would be working with him. But the lure of corruption and the bent for strongman power would keep them satisfied.

      Jokowi is weak in the sense that he is unlikely to recognize the threat posed by these organizations. Democracy is curious for Muslims because given democracy, Muslims will slowly elect to implement more elements of Islam in their government. And the pluralist, open-minded nature that democracy encourages is rather powerless to stop it. They have a "free speech right" to advocate for the destruction of the government, to replace it with khilafa. This is why Hizb ut-Tahrir is banned nearly everywhere else and why it finds its strongest foothold in democratic societies.

      He strikes me as an idealist, and I suspect he will do very little about the mujahideen going back and forth to the Middle East, though I am willing to be surprised. I could be totally wrong, and he could take a very strong stance against such movements. But I doubt it. I think that sul is correct in worrying about Jokowi's ability to counteract it if his action consists of "interfaith dialogue" and "encouraging the multi-confessional nature of Indonesia." If anything, such things will BOLSTER this movement and serve as evidence to their followers that the nation is having its strings pulled by Americans or Zionists or fill in the Great Satan here.

      Jokowi was still the better choice, of this I have no doubt, but on this particular issue he will be an abject failure. I suspect you will see these organizations grow in the face of pluralism rather than retreat. That's just the nature of the beast.

      Let's revisit this thread in a few years.
      Last edited by DanInAceh; 23-08-14, 21:54.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by mick mentawai View Post
        [COLOR=#000000][FONT=Verdana]Jakarta (AsiaNews) - Indonesian extremists supporters of the Islamic State (formerly Isis, Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant) want to target and destroy the most important Buddhist cultural center of the country: the temple of Borobudur, a UNESCO World Heritage Site.
        [/FONT][/COLOR]
        http://www.asianews.it/news-en/Borob...ple-31946.html
        In a way, this is old news, because Borobudur was already damaged partially (some of the top "open air" tier statues) by Muslim extremists about 20 years ago.

        There was also a threat or plot or perhaps some damage to Wat Khao Kong's giant buddha statue in Narathiwat (southern Thailand) in the 1990s.

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