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The 2014 elections taught me that Indonesia truly is a Pancasila country

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  • #91
    Dan on this occasion I think your answer is a big cop out, why are you playing the apologist? With that logic terrorists can justify their actions due to their ignorance, as being ignorant is ok in Islam if it's coming from your best judgement. Not a good answer (excuse) sir

    Originally posted by fastpitch17 View Post
    That's interesting since just 3 days ago a rather large bunch of us had our palm read. All Muslims except me of course. Some devout, some not as much. My wife had told me of a niece that read her palm one time. Of course my wife is one of those free thinking, free spirited Muslims so she doesn't count to a few here but, never the less she got it started a few days ago. Evidently no one knew it was a no no. Everyone wanted their palm read. Pretty interesting actually. Some actually were encouraging our niece to start her own palm reading practice out of her home.

    When i brought it up with my wife last night I said, you know reading your star sign is haram? And that your friend who has a business reading palms is totally against Islam?

    she said "NOOOooo!! But I love to read that stuff! Everyone reads their star signs"

    i said: "Allah will not listen to your prayers for 40 days if you read your star sign out of curiosity"

    she said: "oh shit"

    I followed: "and if you Believe what it says, it is a disbelief in Allah himself! One of the worst harams"

    she said: "noo, where did you hear that, it's wrong!"

    i said: "from abdur rasheed, probably one of the most respected scholars in Islam and a very famous speaker, come and listen yourself f you don't believe me"

    she said: "ok well I can read it then but just don't believe it too much"

    i burst out laughing and so did she. Then moved onto another topic.

    Comment


    • #92
      Originally posted by Donting101 View Post

      When i brought it up with my wife last night I said, you know reading your star sign is haram? And that your friend who has a business reading palms is totally against Islam?

      she said "NOOOooo!! But I love to read that stuff! Everyone reads their star signs"

      i said: "Allah will not listen to your prayers for 40 days if you read your star sign out of curiosity"

      she said: "oh shit"

      I followed: "and if you Believe what it says, it is a disbelief in Allah himself! One of the worst harams"

      she said: "noo, where did you hear that, it's wrong!"

      i said: "from abdur rasheed, probably one of the most respected scholars in Islam and a very famous speaker, come and listen yourself f you don't believe me"

      she said: "ok well I can read it then but just don't believe it too much"

      i burst out laughing and so did she. Then moved onto another topic.

      Suggested experiment: Read this to your wife, and see if she is still laughing:


      "And among them are those who abuse the Prophet and say, "He is an ear." Say, "[It is] an ear of goodness for you that believes in Allah and believes the believers and [is] a mercy to those who believe among you." And those who abuse the Messenger of Allah - for them is a painful punishment.

      They swear by Allah to you [Muslims] to satisfy you. But Allah and His Messenger are more worthy for them to satisfy, if they should be believers.

      Do they not know that whoever opposes Allah and His Messenger - that for him is the fire of Hell, wherein he will abide eternally? That is the great disgrace.

      The hypocrites are apprehensive lest a surah be revealed about them, informing them of what is in their hearts. Say, "Mock [as you wish]; indeed, Allah will expose that which you fear."

      And if you ask them, they will surely say, "We were only conversing and playing." Say, "Is it Allah and His verses and His Messenger that you were mocking?"

      Make no excuse; you have disbelieved after your belief. If We pardon one faction of you - We will punish another faction because they were criminals.

      The hypocrite men and hypocrite women are of one another. They enjoin what is wrong and forbid what is right and close their hands. They have forgotten Allah , so He has forgotten them [accordingly]. Indeed, the hypocrites - it is they who are the defiantly disobedient.

      Allah has promised the hypocrite men and hypocrite women and the disbelievers the fire of Hell, wherein they will abide eternally. It is sufficient for them. And Allah has cursed them, and for them is an enduring punishment."

      At-Tawbah 61-68


      If she still laughs after hearing these words, she is truly the same as is represented in the surat. If she does not, it might mean the fear of her God is still in her ...
      [FONT=Comic Sans MS]Warden: "What we got here ... is failure to communicate."

      The Dude: "Oh yeah? Well that's just, like, your opinion, man."[/FONT]

      Comment


      • #93
        Mate she won't understand any of that, unless you have it in bahasa indo? And I'll show it to her to see what she says.

        She is god fearing don't get me wrong, in some sort of way. But her idea of god is like a cheery old fellow with a white beard and big smile, like Santa. And all that matters to her is being a good person, she believes that will get her into heaven, according to what her perseption is of good

        (My opinion of Her character is she is charitable, friendly, kind, loving, polite, generous, happy, knowledgable about current events and history, the environment, animal welfare, etc etc, I think that is 'good' enough)

        Comment


        • #94
          I believe there are as many "kinda" Muslims in Indonesia, as the fully observant types. Drinking, eating pork, eating during the day during fasting, as long as their elders aren't about is pretty common.

          It's common everywhere, though. People going through the motions to make parents happy, or keep up appearances. Christian, Jews or Muslim are all pretty similar.
          Sasa Bule is having a bayi!

          Comment


          • #95
            Originally posted by Donting101 View Post

            She is god fearing don't get me wrong, in some sort of way. But her idea of god is like a cheery old fellow with a white beard and big smile, like Santa. And all that matters to her is being a good person, she believes that will get her into heaven, according to what her perseption is of good

            (My opinion of Her character is she is charitable, friendly, kind, loving, polite, generous, happy, knowledgable about current events and history, the environment, animal welfare, etc etc, I think that is 'good' enough)

            Yes, that's all good and fine, but why does she insist on calling herself a Muslim? Because being Muslim is not about "being a good person by one's own inner light". That sounds more like pagan New Age-ism to me. It could probably work within Christianity as well. Islam is about belief in Allah as the One God of All, believing the Qur'an is the direct word of that God, and believing and following the path of the Prophet Mohammed, to the highest degree possible. So if she doesn't do nor believe in those three aspects or what they say, why does she identify herself as Muslim? Ask her that, please, I really hope she answers because I'd be very interested to hear it.

            I'm not saying she is NOT a Muslim, because it is not my place to say so. But I can say that from all that you describe, she seems to show almost every possible sign of being an apostate.
            [FONT=Comic Sans MS]Warden: "What we got here ... is failure to communicate."

            The Dude: "Oh yeah? Well that's just, like, your opinion, man."[/FONT]

            Comment


            • #96
              "Dan di antara mereka adalah orang-orang yang menyalahgunakan Nabi dan berkata, "Dia adalah telinga." Katakanlah, "[Ini adalah] telinga kebaikan bagi Anda yang beriman kepada Allah dan percaya bahwa orang-orang percaya dan [adalah] rahmat bagi orang-orang yang beriman di antaramu." Dan orang-orang yang menyalahgunakan Rasulullah - bagi mereka adalah azab yang pedih.

              Mereka bersumpah demi Allah kepada Anda [Muslim] untuk memuaskan Anda. Tapi Allah dan Rasul-Nya lebih layak bagi mereka untuk memenuhi, jika mereka harus percaya.

              Tidakkah mereka tahu bahwa siapa pun menentang Allah dan Rasul-Nya - bahwa baginya adalah api neraka, dimana ia akan mematuhi selamanya? Itu adalah aib besar.

              Orang-orang munafik yang memprihatinkan agar surah yang diungkapkan tentang mereka, menginformasikan mereka tentang apa yang ada dalam hati mereka. Katakanlah, "Mock [sesuai keinginan], memang, Allah akan mengekspos apa yang Anda takut."

              Dan jika Anda bertanya kepada mereka, mereka pasti akan berkata, "Kami hanya berbicara dan bermain." Katakanlah, "Apakah Allah dan ayat-ayat-Nya dan Rasul-Nya bahwa Anda mengejek?"

              Jangan alasan; Anda telah kafir setelah keyakinan Anda. Jika Kami memaafkan satu faksi dari Anda - Kami akan menghukum faksi lain karena mereka adalah penjahat.

              Orang-orang munafik dan wanita munafik adalah satu sama lain. Mereka menyuruh apa yang salah dan melarang apa yang benar dan menutup tangan mereka. Mereka telah melupakan Allah, sehingga Ia telah melupakan mereka [sesuai]. Memang, orang-orang munafik - itu adalah mereka yang adalah menantang taat.

              Allah telah menjanjikan orang-orang munafik dan wanita munafik dan orang-orang kafir api neraka, di mana mereka akan mematuhi selamanya. Hal ini cukup bagi mereka. Dan Allah telah mengutuk mereka, dan bagi mereka adalah hukuman abadi"

              - At- Tawbah 61-68
              [FONT=Comic Sans MS]Warden: "What we got here ... is failure to communicate."

              The Dude: "Oh yeah? Well that's just, like, your opinion, man."[/FONT]

              Comment


              • #97
                Originally posted by Mister Bule View Post
                Yes, that's all good and fine, but why does she insist on calling herself a Muslim? Because being Muslim is not about "being a good person by one's own inner light". That sounds more like pagan New Age-ism to me. It could probably work within Christianity as well. Islam is about belief in Allah as the One God of All, believing the Qur'an is the direct word of that God, and believing and following the path of the Prophet Mohammed, to the highest degree possible. So if she doesn't do nor believe in those three aspects or what they say, why does she identify herself as Muslim? Ask her that, please, I really hope she answers because I'd be very interested to hear it.

                I'm not saying she is NOT a Muslim, because it is not my place to say so. But I can say that from all that you describe, she seems to show almost every possible sign of being an apostate.
                Trust me mate I've said it all before many times, literally "come on love.. You're not really a Muslim, are you?". She says she is, and I'm happy to leave it at that. She's clearly been told since she was old enough to remember that 'you are a Muslim', it even says it on her ID card. She believes in Allah and the heavens and the angels and all the rest of it, in her own way. I said her lifestyle and belief system sounds more like a modern take on Christianity, where you have 'your own relationship with god' (as she literally has said to be before.. Her relationship with Allah is between her, and Allah, and she doesn't need to pray 5 times a day as she prays in her heart..) I think I've mentioned all of this to you before. I left it there, each to their own I say (as always). I just like to throw out the occasional curve ball to her from time to time (ie the star sign and palm readings), just for the banter. We have a long journey

                Comment


                • #98
                  Well, according to the word of Allah, she has a long journey which is likely to end up in a not very nice place... maybe she'll wake up one morning and read that in her "star signs" and get a proper shock.


                  Last edited by Mister Bule; 02-08-14, 17:26.
                  [FONT=Comic Sans MS]Warden: "What we got here ... is failure to communicate."

                  The Dude: "Oh yeah? Well that's just, like, your opinion, man."[/FONT]

                  Comment

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