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  • #61
    Javanese do not use kakak to call their older sister. In Indonesian household, a maid will be call mbak by the employer's child/children. It is for a respect, as in our culture we don't call older people by name. And for the employers themselves, they don't call the maid mbak if they are older. If the maid is an elderly lady, we call her "mbok". Mbok means mother, but usually is used in Javanese village.

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    • #62
      Originally posted by whatever View Post
      Not me saying that mbak IS pembantu OR waitresses. But some people feel that mbak sounds like downgrading, I guess that's why SPG's call us now kakak, not mbak. I don't recall any SPG calls the customers mbak, always kakak. I don't mind people call me mbak cos I am Javanese, I am Indonesian, so what...

      It's different if two strangers or two people know each other, or peers, they don't use kakak, they still use mbak, I don't know why.
      Maaf, jam berapa mbak?
      Mbak, tadi bis x udah lewat ya?
      Not maaf kak, jam berapa ya? or kak, tadi bis x udah lewat ya?

      You might want to read this, http://femaledaily.com/showthread.php?p=3392596
      Not specifically for mbak but you can see something there...

      And I don't know if you can read the post in this link, https://www.facebook.com/groups/komu...2256365439133/

      But there are some people thinking that some others degrading the word mbak, I'll try to track them back.
      It's from this post, http://sosbud.kompasiana.com/2014/03...r--638571.html
      She mentioned word mbak-mbak, and it stirred up some kind of disagreement of mbak-mbak word she uses in her post.
      Quoting:
      Di cafĂ© ini, kalau ada tamu lain mau ke sebelah ujung akan melewati tempat duduk kami dulu. Lewatlah seorang bule tua bertato dengan seorang gadis Indonesia hitam legam mungkin habis berjemur kemarennya atau gimana dengan rambut panjang, wajah mbak-mbak, bertato juga, bercelana hotpants dan kaos seadanya dan bersepatu tinggi, tapi jalannya miring-miring dikit, mungkin terlalu tinggi, biasanya make sandal di sawah barangkali. Kelihatannya busana ini belum ganti dari malamnya. Mereka duduk di sebelah kami, si bule pesan kopi dalam bahasa Inggris, si wanita ditanya sama waiter mau apa, dalam Bahasa Indonesia tentunya, karena tampangnya ya Indonesia banget. Si wanita ini tidak mau menjawab dalam Bahasa Indonesia, bunyi jawabannya begini , “ Ai wan manggo jus litel suger” Karena logatnya si wanita ini Jawa medok, tapi berbahasa Inggris saya jadi menahan senyum, make Bahasa Indonesia aja nape, memangnya waiternya dari Amrik apa diajak Bahasa Inggris logat Jawa Timuran medok…..
      The paragraph that you quoted above is showing the opinion of the writer that isn't too keen on what she saw. She mentioned the look, the ability of her not able to walk straight on high heel shoes cos she seems like those who works in padi field using flip flop... (?) the writer was looking down on her. If she decided to speak English when ordering her drink, she respect the western man next to her. If I am in an English speaking group and I knew that the waiter/es can speak English, I would also speak English, so my companies understand what I am saying, it is about manner.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by Missnaughty View Post
        The paragraph that you quoted above is showing the opinion of the writer that isn't too keen on what she saw. She mentioned the look, the ability of her not able to walk straight on high heel shoes cos she seems like those who works in padi field using flip flop... (?) the writer was looking down on her. If she decided to speak English when ordering her drink, she respect the western man next to her. If I am in an English speaking group and I knew that the waiter/es can speak English, I would also speak English, so my companies understand what I am saying, it is about manner.
        That is obvious, but that was not what I meant you to see. What I was trying to say is how I assume that mbak may sound degrading or (maybe better if I say) mbak may have different sense of meaning in some case. I guess this is proven by SPG's in the supermarkets/ITC's/pasar who never call the customers mbak, always kakak. And second, the lady who wrote the article used mbak in a sense of negativity, that she has mbak-mbak look from a village which we all can see what that means. If only you could see what happened in that discussion in FB page. I hope now you understand I was not stating/saying that mbak is pembantu or waitresses, instead, the word mbak or mbak-mbak has a sense of pembantu-like meaning to some extent. Although I have another prove, a member here chatted with me and he used the word mbak-mbak in that sense, I think this discussion of mbak-mbak word is enough. This has been off topic and I want to end it here, I hope you catch what I was saying.

        Originally posted by Mister Bule View Post
        Oh, you mean SASM's (Semi Animated Shop Mannequins).
        Last edited by whatever; 27-06-14, 09:03.

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        • #64
          I missed out on all this maid culture lol


          Originally posted by Michelle O'Brien View Post
          Well, the reality is, that it is against that country's interpretation of human rights and their laws. That's the whole idea - the rights in that country actually do exist - robustly so, are defended and enforced, and are definitely hugely better than many places in the world...that's why people want to live there!! If the USA do not enforce those laws - then the USA would be like Indonesia (and many other countries) - overtly corrupt and a third world country! Who would clamour to live there then? Not so many - including it's citizens!

          To flippantly suggest that people disobey the law there is just as affronting as if we come here and deliberately do something against the law.

          Being locked up in a house to work 24/7 and beaten also does not really sound like the "Disneyland tour of the States"!
          America has to be the most corrupt country in the world, granted a successful one, America turned a blind eye on labor laws for decades, believe me the working backbone of America came off the hard work of illegal Mexicans coming across the border for years, big business greased the politicians and got cheap labor, Mexicans sent their money back home and people got their cheaper produce. You can't get the video game controller out of US youth to work anymore, and if you do the little pricks want $15 and hour to work at McDonalds.

          I certainly don't condone this kind of working slavery this woman went through, it's really plain sick, shame this lady will probably do 2 years in a white collar prison and get probation, but saying US [COLOR=#333333]vigorously enforces their labor laws is a stretch.[/COLOR]

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          • #65
            Originally posted by Todd-sun View Post
            I missed out on all this maid culture lol




            America has to be the most corrupt country in the world, granted a successful one, America turned a blind eye on labor laws for decades, believe me the working backbone of America came off the hard work of illegal Mexicans coming across the border for years, big business greased the politicians and got cheap labor, Mexicans sent their money back home and people got their cheaper produce. You can't get the video game controller out of US youth to work anymore, and if you do the little pricks want $15 and hour to work at McDonalds.

            I certainly don't condone this kind of working slavery this woman went through, it's really plain sick, shame this lady will probably do 2 years in a white collar prison and get probation, but saying US [COLOR=#333333]vigorously enforces their labor laws is a stretch.[/COLOR]
            I probably was out of turn commenting on American laws, I should have stuck with Australia - but what you surprises me. Even today does this happens?
            Things happen for a reason...

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            • #66
              Originally posted by Todd-sun View Post
              I missed out on all this maid culture lol




              America has to be the most corrupt country in the world, granted a successful one, America turned a blind eye on labor laws for decades, believe me the working backbone of America came off the hard work of illegal Mexicans coming across the border for years, big business greased the politicians and got cheap labor, Mexicans sent their money back home and people got their cheaper produce. You can't get the video game controller out of US youth to work anymore, and if you do the little pricks want $15 and hour to work at McDonalds.

              I certainly don't condone this kind of working slavery this woman went through, it's really plain sick, shame this lady will probably do 2 years in a white collar prison and get probation, but saying US [COLOR=#333333]vigorously enforces their labor laws is a stretch.[/COLOR]
              You can't get the video game controller out of their hands because the parents never took charge and taught them anything about work or work ethics. Just gave them whatever they wanted. Fortunately, not all parents were this giving. Some gave a lot more to teach their children to be self sufficient.

              As for the Indian lady from the Embassy. She will se no jail. No fine. No punishment. Status was raised giving her full diplomatic immunity and is now comfortable back in India.

              Your comments about corruption and enforcement of labor laws is confusing. Labor laws or immigration laws. There are a lot of Mexican workers in the US doing it quite legally. Yes, some are Mexican Citizens working legally in the US. The company I retired from has over 4,000 Mexican workers. All are legals. Extensive check on each one of them. The company also employs another 16,000 to 18,000 US Citizens. They just can't get enough people that want to work hard. Maybe it's the pay. With overtime they would only be bringing home $1,000.00US per week. Where should American companies go to find enough employees when citizens don't want the jobs. At least the jobs where they would need to actually work. Thankfully, some have learned that they need to work to make a living. The parents that let their kids get whatever they wanted without responsibility are the reason for a lot of labor problems. Too many Young Americans want to be the manager thinking they can just sit around telling people what to do even though they don't have any experience themselves.
              [COLOR=#333333][FONT=Verdana]Some love to milk Apostate.[/FONT][/COLOR]

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              • #67
                Originally posted by Michelle O'Brien View Post
                I probably was out of turn commenting on American laws, I should have stuck with Australia - but what you surprises me. Even today does this happens?
                You were not out of turn. Labor laws in the US are somewhat national but States have their own statutes. Sure, there are some illegal and a lot of legal farm laborers picking the crops. This does help to keep produce affordable. What wasn't said is that the crops would rot in the fields without them. Not because of the pay but because it's work to pick them. To many Americans look at picking crops as way beneath them. Plus the bosses don't give whining breaks which many young Americans would need. They would receive minimum wage or more. The other alternative would be to stop US farming and export the produce from Mexico. This is done to a certain extent in the off seasons.

                Do politicians and local law enforcement look the other way sometimes? You bet. Better then their farmers and neighbors losing a crop. I wouldn't call it corrupt though.
                [COLOR=#333333][FONT=Verdana]Some love to milk Apostate.[/FONT][/COLOR]

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by fastpitch17 View Post
                  You can't get the video game controller out of their hands because the parents never took charge and taught them anything about work or work ethics. Just gave them whatever they wanted. Fortunately, not all parents were this giving. Some gave a lot more to teach their children to be self sufficient.

                  As for the Indian lady from the Embassy. She will se no jail. No fine. No punishment. Status was raised giving her full diplomatic immunity and is now comfortable back in India.

                  Your comments about corruption and enforcement of labor laws is confusing. Labor laws or immigration laws. There are a lot of Mexican workers in the US doing it quite legally. Yes, some are Mexican Citizens working legally in the US. The company I retired from has over 4,000 Mexican workers. All are legals. Extensive check on each one of them. The company also employs another 16,000 to 18,000 US Citizens. They just can't get enough people that want to work hard. Maybe it's the pay. With overtime they would only be bringing home $1,000.00US per week. Where should American companies go to find enough employees when citizens don't want the jobs. At least the jobs where they would need to actually work. Thankfully, some have learned that they need to work to make a living. The parents that let their kids get whatever they wanted without responsibility are the reason for a lot of labor problems. Too many Young Americans want to be the manager thinking they can just sit around telling people what to do even though they don't have any experience themselves.
                  Yes indeed, quite a few generations of legal proud American Mexicans, didn't want to imply they're all illegal. Immigration laws your right, as the Indian maid, bringing a maid from Indonesia or illegal Mexicans aren't citizens, what's corrupt is the government turning a blind eye to businesses hiring them, I'm sure it drove the wage for labor jobs down over the years. They've tightened down on it lately but there are still 20-30 people standing around in any given parking lot at home depot. I don't deny them trying to make a better living, I'm sure it's worked out for the economy over the years, but it's the old - "they took our jobs" joke.

                  I think it's corrupt because they didn't uphold the law as it was wrote, if it was working for the economy they could of changed it allowing temporary work permits, but that would require congress to do something logical for a change.
                  Last edited by Todd-sun; 27-06-14, 09:23.

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by fastpitch17 View Post
                    You were not out of turn. Labor laws in the US are somewhat national but States have their own statutes. Sure, there are some illegal and a lot of legal farm laborers picking the crops. This does help to keep produce affordable. What wasn't said is that the crops would rot in the fields without them. Not because of the pay but because it's work to pick them. To many Americans look at picking crops as way beneath them. Plus the bosses don't give whining breaks which many young Americans would need. They would receive minimum wage or more. The other alternative would be to stop US farming and export the produce from Mexico. This is done to a certain extent in the off seasons.

                    Do politicians and local law enforcement look the other way sometimes? You bet. Better then their farmers and neighbors losing a crop. I wouldn't call it corrupt though.
                    Good pickers don't get paid by the hour either. They wouldn't have much incentive to get the crops out of the field. They get payed for what gets picked. US teenagers wouldn't work hard enough to earn minimum wage.
                    Some of the chapters of my life are pretty boring but some of the pages are fascinating.

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Interloper View Post
                      Good pickers don't get paid by the hour either. They wouldn't have much incentive to get the crops out of the field. They get payed for what gets picked. US teenagers wouldn't work hard enough to earn minimum wage.
                      Have you ever seen the teens in states like Iowa, Illinois, or Wisconsin come corn tasseling time? Fields are dull of them working 10 or more hours a day for a week to 10 days straight. At the end they get to pick up 4 to 500 hundred dollars, had a great farm lunch every day, and got to work with their friends both boys and girls. A lot more teens would be involved with farm planting and picking but it normally is something that happens during school schedules.
                      [COLOR=#333333][FONT=Verdana]Some love to milk Apostate.[/FONT][/COLOR]

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by fastpitch17 View Post
                        Have you ever seen the teens in states like Iowa, Illinois, or Wisconsin come corn tasseling time? Fields are dull of them working 10 or more hours a day for a week to 10 days straight. At the end they get to pick up 4 to 500 hundred dollars, had a great farm lunch every day, and got to work with their friends both boys and girls. A lot more teens would be involved with farm planting and picking but it normally is something that happens during school schedules.

                        Sounds great reminds me of my dads recollections of his hop picking days in Kent during the 50s

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