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Public Schools in Indonesia Feel Islamic Pressure

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  • nyonyahbesar
    replied
    Ratna Sarumpaet is the idiot. No need to be Indonesian to see that it was a stupid campaign.

    Leave a comment:


  • DanInAceh
    replied
    Originally posted by martindo View Post
    Yes, CM, but that was in a different article, not the one I posted. The pemilu.tempo article says:
    "Ratna mengatakan jurnalis asing tidak bisa menilai buruk-baiknya suatu kampanye di Indonesia menurut versinya sendiri."

    Of course, people are free to comment about other countries, and it happens all the time. But there is a difference between informed opinion and the presumptuousness of using demagogue tactics to expose a potential demagogue. In particular, if Kwok presents herself to American news media as an expert on Indonesia, why does she link Garuda with the nazi eagle, when the eagle obviously is also a symbol for US?
    The use of the eagle as the symbol of a republic or empire comes to us from the Romans, who the Fascists emulated (hence... fasces, duh). Pretty much every nation has a "state bird."

    Nothing to see here, Kwok is just an idiot.

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  • martindo
    replied
    Yes, CM, but that was in a different article, not the one I posted. The pemilu.tempo article says:
    "Ratna mengatakan jurnalis asing tidak bisa menilai buruk-baiknya suatu kampanye di Indonesia menurut versinya sendiri."

    Of course, people are free to comment about other countries, and it happens all the time. But there is a difference between informed opinion and the presumptuousness of using demagogue tactics to expose a potential demagogue. In particular, if Kwok presents herself to American news media as an expert on Indonesia, why does she link Garuda with the nazi eagle, when the eagle obviously is also a symbol for US?

    Leave a comment:


  • Chotto Matte
    replied
    Originally posted by martindo View Post
    Rebuttal to Yenni Kwok by Ratna Sarumpaet, a human rights activist:
    http://pemilu.tempo.co/read/news/201...eo-Pro-Prabowo

    She refers to the Hong Kong proofreader/reporter as a "foreigner" so I assume Yenni is not Indonesian.
    Ratna Sarumpaet called Yenni Kwok 'Tionghoa', that means 'Chinese' in Hokkien dialect. Not necessarily a foreigner. Chinese Indonesians can also be called Tionghoa. It's similar to 'bule' for caucasian expats.

    Ratna menjelaskan Yenny merupakan keturunan Tionghoa yang sebelumnya bekerja di Asia Week tinggal di Kramat. "Dulu kerja di Asia Week tinggal di Kramat keturunan Tionghoa," jawab Ratna
    http://www.merdeka.com/peristiwa/fot...sarumpaet.html
    Last edited by Chotto Matte; 14-07-14, 10:55.

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  • martindo
    replied
    Rebuttal to Yenni Kwok by Ratna Sarumpaet, a human rights activist:
    http://pemilu.tempo.co/read/news/201...eo-Pro-Prabowo

    She refers to the Hong Kong proofreader/reporter as a "foreigner" so I assume Yenni is not Indonesian.

    Leave a comment:


  • martindo
    replied
    Big Nyonya makes a good point about external morality (i.e., clothing) covering up internal libertine (e.g., sex on internet or via HP).

    However, it sounds like she is too much in the Jakarta bubble. Outside of large cities, do you really think there are malls for kids to go to when they cabut/bolos? Guess again.

    Indoctrinate basically means to "teach a set of beliefs uncritically" -- a "doctrine" such as santri Islam in Indonesia. This is precisely what happens. What kind of questions (if any) are asked by students in religion class? What kind of alternative viewpoints are taught by the teacher? What does the curriculum (geared to a required final exam) allow?

    Scooter is correct that failure to mention other religions in anything resembling a neutral light (and I do call if a failure if "religion" is the general topic, rather than "doctrines of my religion") is part of the problem.

    But Indonesia is still young, less than 70 years since merdeka and some people still remember it. So, there is still an underlying panic about being recolonized (difficult to get permanent residence status until a couple years ago, foreigners can't own land, etc.). This is evidenced by use of fixed curriculum indoctrination in history class, not just religion class.

    One might also suggest that Islam is still in a panic after over a millennium, always "defending" itself from naughty images, freethinkers, sleepiness, etc. as if the religion might be extinguished overnight, which was a real fear in the time of Nabi Mohammed.
    Last edited by martindo; 12-07-14, 09:13.

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  • nyonyahbesar
    replied
    Originally posted by ScooterIndo View Post
    Not so much a problem regarding a religious education lesson or religious ciriculum at schools, thats fine and i have no objection to that. However the issue arrises (for me personally) from the unbalanced and one sided nature in which the kids are indoctrinated towards their own religion whilst at the same time the schools refuse to educate kids about other religions. Therein lies the problem i feel, as the state and private school sector are both guilty of failing kids by refusing to give them a balanced and well rounded religious education.
    'Indoctrinate' is too strong of a word. The religious study in school is a formality. When I was in public high school, half of my class use the Pelajaran Agama time to 'cabut' (skip class), moslem or not.
    Moslems does not rely just on the Islam lesson in school for their children. They make their kids go to guru ngaji if they want their kids to be more islami. Same goes with christian who put their kids to sunday school.

    I do agree thoug, the fact that in some province they make the girls wear long sleeves and ankle lenght skirt is cringey. But I think that was more because they think covering up female students and make all students 'more religious' is the answer to the declining morality of today's student (with all the smp sex tape happening), not to 'islamize' the whole nation.

    Leave a comment:


  • fastpitch17
    replied
    Originally posted by DanInAceh View Post
    And then there's the problem. Indonesia, despite the protests of some forum members, is not a secular society. Even if we reject the idea that it is chiefly informed by Islam (which it totally is), we still have to grapple with the reality of the state's ideology recognizing, nay, demanding belief in some sort of religion. No matter where you look, Indonesia now and probably for the foreseeable future will be a state that includes religion as part of its public education curriculum.

    If Indonesia were a more developed economy I'd recommend this: provide religious instruction via distance learning (webinars etc) to pupils at home. It might also be possible, or even recommended, to provide additional schooling in tajweed to Muslim students as well.
    Yes, a Muslim Society under what is supposed to be a secular government. We all know how that is works. If Indonesia were more developed they will first need to separate state and religion. As long as the religious ministers keep their fingers in the educational till, schools will more and more become Islamic. That is why I feel public schools funded by the government and private schools funded by themselves. Religion can still have a place but not controlling as it is now. Emphasize the family for religious education.

    Leave a comment:


  • ScooterIndo
    replied
    Originally posted by DanInAceh View Post
    And then there's the problem. Indonesia, despite the protests of some forum members, is not a secular society. Even if we reject the idea that it is chiefly informed by Islam (which it totally is), we still have to grapple with the reality of the state's ideology recognizing, nay, demanding belief in some sort of religion. No matter where you look, Indonesia now and probably for the foreseeable future will be a state that includes religion as part of its public education curriculum.
    Not so much a problem regarding a religious education lesson or religious ciriculum at schools, thats fine and i have no objection to that. However the issue arrises (for me personally) from the unbalanced and one sided nature in which the kids are indoctrinated towards their own religion whilst at the same time the schools refuse to educate kids about other religions. Therein lies the problem i feel, as the state and private school sector are both guilty of failing kids by refusing to give them a balanced and well rounded religious education.

    Leave a comment:


  • DanInAceh
    replied
    Originally posted by fastpitch17 View Post
    To me, in a secular nation, public schools should be free of religion all together. Put religious training back into the home were the children can learn the family values as they pertain to the families chosen religion. If you want Religious based schools they should be private schools. All State funding should go into Public education and not private education. Religion based government agencies should be totally removed from the public education. Religion based government agencies really have no place at all in a secular government. Public schools are paid for with tuition's and fund raising.

    Then, make education through high school mandatory. Put science, math, social studies, history, the arts, and reading and writing in place to advance these students to help them become a more productive citizen.
    And then there's the problem. Indonesia, despite the protests of some forum members, is not a secular society. Even if we reject the idea that it is chiefly informed by Islam (which it totally is), we still have to grapple with the reality of the state's ideology recognizing, nay, demanding belief in some sort of religion. No matter where you look, Indonesia now and probably for the foreseeable future will be a state that includes religion as part of its public education curriculum.

    If Indonesia were a more developed economy I'd recommend this: provide religious instruction via distance learning (webinars etc) to pupils at home. It might also be possible, or even recommended, to provide additional schooling in tajweed to Muslim students as well.

    Leave a comment:


  • martindo
    replied
    I agree with the quote in Yenni Kwok's NYT article (she lives in Hong Kong, so she might be less Indonesian than Joe Cochrane, who was just mentioned in the JIS saga/thread) that religious instruction should be a family matter done at home, reinforced by community, not by a public school.

    However, it seems that NYT was engaging in yellow journalism, painting Islam as the only source of pressure (Macvert's example and similar ones are totally out of the worldview of the writer/editor). Further, they didn't reveal that all kids in public school must wear *some* kind of uniform, so is requiring a jilbab actually a limitation on sartorial freedom? Worse, NYT and Kwok completely ignored the context of "religiosity in public school" by not telling the readers how few hours a week are devoted to the agama class in elementary school: 1 hour per week in the public school that my daughter attends.

    Then again, those who remember Andrew Marshall's four-page piece in NYT March 10, 2002 about the "threat" of pesantren in Solo might recall that the New York fashionista mentality had an influence then, too. Although Marshall did not focus the bulk of his article on clothing styles the way Kwok did, he did warn direly about "black commando outfits" without mentioning *any* weapons. I guess clothing is what makes a potential terrorist in NYT eyes. Marshall also upped the FUD ante by noting that Jaffar's name was similar to that of a Disney villain, which should have been deleted by the editors as blatantly insulting to the (presumed) intelligence of NYT readers. Anyway, they ditched him soon afterward and pulled in a woman writer from the mideast as their new Jakarta stringer.
    Last edited by martindo; 19-06-14, 18:52.

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  • fastpitch17
    replied
    To me, in a secular nation, public schools should be free of religion all together. Put religious training back into the home were the children can learn the family values as they pertain to the families chosen religion. If you want Religious based schools they should be private schools. All State funding should go into Public education and not private education. Religion based government agencies should be totally removed from the public education. Religion based government agencies really have no place at all in a secular government. Public schools are paid for with tuition's and fund raising.

    Then, make education through high school mandatory. Put science, math, social studies, history, the arts, and reading and writing in place to advance these students to help them become a more productive citizen.

    Leave a comment:


  • macvert
    replied
    our 14 year old does quite well at school ..... 1 day she came home & told us that 1 of the teachers kids was bragging about already having the answers to an exam ........ I asked her if she had seen the answers & she said "no, I don't want to see them".

    Leave a comment:


  • macvert
    replied
    Originally posted by Niko Z. View Post
    Some people here get around this problem by declaring a different religion for the child every year. Not much schools can do about that. Though in the end the child will have to take the national exam on one religion only.



    [COLOR=#222222][FONT=Tahoma, Calibri, Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif]&what they do here for non Hindu student term exams is they tell theparents to go to their church or whatever & ask the priest orwhoever to set questions for the student........ then the parenttakes the question sheet to the school, the student sits for the exam& then the parent has to take the exam paper back to the priestor whoever & get them to mark & sign it before it is takenback to the school again.[/FONT][/COLOR]


    [COLOR=#222222][FONT=Tahoma, Calibri, Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif]Funnything was ...... the priest not only asked my wife to google thequestions but then when it came time for marking she asked her togoogle the answers ..... lol [/FONT][/COLOR]


    [COLOR=#222222][FONT=Tahoma, Calibri, Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif]2ndtime around my wife got smart & supplied questions & answersat the same time ...... needless to say the kids passed religion withflying colours [/FONT][/COLOR]


    [COLOR=#222222][FONT=Tahoma, Calibri, Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif]Baliis apparently the leading province in National Exams ..... that iswhat I heard anyway ..... bit hard to believe seeing they spend solittle time actually learning anything.[/FONT][/COLOR]


    [COLOR=#222222][FONT=Tahoma, Calibri, Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif]moralof the story ...... if you can't beat em' join em'[/FONT][/COLOR]

    Leave a comment:


  • Berlarutlarut
    replied
    Originally posted by macvert
    & what they do here for non Hindu students is they tell the parents to go to their church or whatever & ask the priest or whoever to set questions for the student........ then the parent takes the question sheet to the school, the students sit for the exam & then the parent has to take the exam paper back to the priest or whoever & get them to mark & sign it before it is taken back to the school again.Funny thing was ...... the priest not only asked my wife to google the questions but then when it came time for marking she asked her to google the answers ..... lol 2nd time around my wife got smart & supplied questions & answers at the same time ...... needless to say the kids passed religion with flying colours moral of the story ....... if you can't beat em' join em'
    that's brilliant

    Leave a comment:

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