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Public Schools in Indonesia Feel Islamic Pressure

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  • #16
    is wudu similar to voodoo? It sounds scary whatever it is

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    • #17
      We all wash our hands after we touch our dog & I have often wondered how the dog would feel knowing we did this if he was capable of those kinds of feelings.
      The answer is 42 .... any questions? .

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      • #18
        Originally posted by ScooterIndo View Post
        Not much different there unfortunately, my kids have always attended private schools and their idea of religious education is also seriouly flawed and prejudiced in the fact that the kids are divided up into "religions" and then taught about their own religion only (ie Muslim kids only get taught Islam) when i approached the schools religious teacher about this and asked if my child would be taught the outlines of the other religious belief systems recognised by the school he looked shocked that i would even consider wanting my kid to learn about Christianity or Hinduism. Deciding that i would get nowhere trying to explain my thoughts and feelings on this to him, i decided to seek audience with the organ grinder and went to discuss the matter with the headmaster instead. He was also shocked that i would want my kid to learn about other religions and had no concept of my kid getting a well rounded, balanced, and unbiased religious education, and refused to be open to suggestion of my boy actually sitting in on the other religions classes after all knowledge is power. Needless to say he flatly refused. It would seem this outdated and close minded mentality is also prevelent in private schools to, no wonder there is so much ignorance and prejudice in Indonesia, why educate when you can brainwash ?? Needless to say that as a result of this fruitless discussion i have withdrawn my child from this religious education class.
        Some people here get around this problem by declaring a different religion for the child every year. Not much schools can do about that. Though in the end the child will have to take the national exam on one religion only.
        Take my advice, I don't need it.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by macvert
          & what they do here for non Hindu students is they tell the parents to go to their church or whatever & ask the priest or whoever to set questions for the student........ then the parent takes the question sheet to the school, the students sit for the exam & then the parent has to take the exam paper back to the priest or whoever & get them to mark & sign it before it is taken back to the school again.Funny thing was ...... the priest not only asked my wife to google the questions but then when it came time for marking she asked her to google the answers ..... lol 2nd time around my wife got smart & supplied questions & answers at the same time ...... needless to say the kids passed religion with flying colours moral of the story ....... if you can't beat em' join em'
          that's brilliant

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Niko Z. View Post
            Some people here get around this problem by declaring a different religion for the child every year. Not much schools can do about that. Though in the end the child will have to take the national exam on one religion only.



            [COLOR=#222222][FONT=Tahoma, Calibri, Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif]&what they do here for non Hindu student term exams is they tell theparents to go to their church or whatever & ask the priest orwhoever to set questions for the student........ then the parenttakes the question sheet to the school, the student sits for the exam& then the parent has to take the exam paper back to the priestor whoever & get them to mark & sign it before it is takenback to the school again.[/FONT][/COLOR]


            [COLOR=#222222][FONT=Tahoma, Calibri, Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif]Funnything was ...... the priest not only asked my wife to google thequestions but then when it came time for marking she asked her togoogle the answers ..... lol [/FONT][/COLOR]


            [COLOR=#222222][FONT=Tahoma, Calibri, Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif]2ndtime around my wife got smart & supplied questions & answersat the same time ...... needless to say the kids passed religion withflying colours [/FONT][/COLOR]


            [COLOR=#222222][FONT=Tahoma, Calibri, Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif]Baliis apparently the leading province in National Exams ..... that iswhat I heard anyway ..... bit hard to believe seeing they spend solittle time actually learning anything.[/FONT][/COLOR]


            [COLOR=#222222][FONT=Tahoma, Calibri, Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif]moralof the story ...... if you can't beat em' join em'[/FONT][/COLOR]
            The answer is 42 .... any questions? .

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            • #21
              our 14 year old does quite well at school ..... 1 day she came home & told us that 1 of the teachers kids was bragging about already having the answers to an exam ........ I asked her if she had seen the answers & she said "no, I don't want to see them".
              The answer is 42 .... any questions? .

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              • #22
                To me, in a secular nation, public schools should be free of religion all together. Put religious training back into the home were the children can learn the family values as they pertain to the families chosen religion. If you want Religious based schools they should be private schools. All State funding should go into Public education and not private education. Religion based government agencies should be totally removed from the public education. Religion based government agencies really have no place at all in a secular government. Public schools are paid for with tuition's and fund raising.

                Then, make education through high school mandatory. Put science, math, social studies, history, the arts, and reading and writing in place to advance these students to help them become a more productive citizen.
                [COLOR=#333333][FONT=Verdana]Some love to milk Apostate.[/FONT][/COLOR]

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                • #23
                  I agree with the quote in Yenni Kwok's NYT article (she lives in Hong Kong, so she might be less Indonesian than Joe Cochrane, who was just mentioned in the JIS saga/thread) that religious instruction should be a family matter done at home, reinforced by community, not by a public school.

                  However, it seems that NYT was engaging in yellow journalism, painting Islam as the only source of pressure (Macvert's example and similar ones are totally out of the worldview of the writer/editor). Further, they didn't reveal that all kids in public school must wear *some* kind of uniform, so is requiring a jilbab actually a limitation on sartorial freedom? Worse, NYT and Kwok completely ignored the context of "religiosity in public school" by not telling the readers how few hours a week are devoted to the agama class in elementary school: 1 hour per week in the public school that my daughter attends.

                  Then again, those who remember Andrew Marshall's four-page piece in NYT March 10, 2002 about the "threat" of pesantren in Solo might recall that the New York fashionista mentality had an influence then, too. Although Marshall did not focus the bulk of his article on clothing styles the way Kwok did, he did warn direly about "black commando outfits" without mentioning *any* weapons. I guess clothing is what makes a potential terrorist in NYT eyes. Marshall also upped the FUD ante by noting that Jaffar's name was similar to that of a Disney villain, which should have been deleted by the editors as blatantly insulting to the (presumed) intelligence of NYT readers. Anyway, they ditched him soon afterward and pulled in a woman writer from the mideast as their new Jakarta stringer.
                  Last edited by martindo; 19-06-14, 18:52.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by fastpitch17 View Post
                    To me, in a secular nation, public schools should be free of religion all together. Put religious training back into the home were the children can learn the family values as they pertain to the families chosen religion. If you want Religious based schools they should be private schools. All State funding should go into Public education and not private education. Religion based government agencies should be totally removed from the public education. Religion based government agencies really have no place at all in a secular government. Public schools are paid for with tuition's and fund raising.

                    Then, make education through high school mandatory. Put science, math, social studies, history, the arts, and reading and writing in place to advance these students to help them become a more productive citizen.
                    And then there's the problem. Indonesia, despite the protests of some forum members, is not a secular society. Even if we reject the idea that it is chiefly informed by Islam (which it totally is), we still have to grapple with the reality of the state's ideology recognizing, nay, demanding belief in some sort of religion. No matter where you look, Indonesia now and probably for the foreseeable future will be a state that includes religion as part of its public education curriculum.

                    If Indonesia were a more developed economy I'd recommend this: provide religious instruction via distance learning (webinars etc) to pupils at home. It might also be possible, or even recommended, to provide additional schooling in tajweed to Muslim students as well.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by DanInAceh View Post
                      And then there's the problem. Indonesia, despite the protests of some forum members, is not a secular society. Even if we reject the idea that it is chiefly informed by Islam (which it totally is), we still have to grapple with the reality of the state's ideology recognizing, nay, demanding belief in some sort of religion. No matter where you look, Indonesia now and probably for the foreseeable future will be a state that includes religion as part of its public education curriculum.
                      Not so much a problem regarding a religious education lesson or religious ciriculum at schools, thats fine and i have no objection to that. However the issue arrises (for me personally) from the unbalanced and one sided nature in which the kids are indoctrinated towards their own religion whilst at the same time the schools refuse to educate kids about other religions. Therein lies the problem i feel, as the state and private school sector are both guilty of failing kids by refusing to give them a balanced and well rounded religious education.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by DanInAceh View Post
                        And then there's the problem. Indonesia, despite the protests of some forum members, is not a secular society. Even if we reject the idea that it is chiefly informed by Islam (which it totally is), we still have to grapple with the reality of the state's ideology recognizing, nay, demanding belief in some sort of religion. No matter where you look, Indonesia now and probably for the foreseeable future will be a state that includes religion as part of its public education curriculum.

                        If Indonesia were a more developed economy I'd recommend this: provide religious instruction via distance learning (webinars etc) to pupils at home. It might also be possible, or even recommended, to provide additional schooling in tajweed to Muslim students as well.
                        Yes, a Muslim Society under what is supposed to be a secular government. We all know how that is works. If Indonesia were more developed they will first need to separate state and religion. As long as the religious ministers keep their fingers in the educational till, schools will more and more become Islamic. That is why I feel public schools funded by the government and private schools funded by themselves. Religion can still have a place but not controlling as it is now. Emphasize the family for religious education.
                        [COLOR=#333333][FONT=Verdana]Some love to milk Apostate.[/FONT][/COLOR]

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by ScooterIndo View Post
                          Not so much a problem regarding a religious education lesson or religious ciriculum at schools, thats fine and i have no objection to that. However the issue arrises (for me personally) from the unbalanced and one sided nature in which the kids are indoctrinated towards their own religion whilst at the same time the schools refuse to educate kids about other religions. Therein lies the problem i feel, as the state and private school sector are both guilty of failing kids by refusing to give them a balanced and well rounded religious education.
                          'Indoctrinate' is too strong of a word. The religious study in school is a formality. When I was in public high school, half of my class use the Pelajaran Agama time to 'cabut' (skip class), moslem or not.
                          Moslems does not rely just on the Islam lesson in school for their children. They make their kids go to guru ngaji if they want their kids to be more islami. Same goes with christian who put their kids to sunday school.

                          I do agree thoug, the fact that in some province they make the girls wear long sleeves and ankle lenght skirt is cringey. But I think that was more because they think covering up female students and make all students 'more religious' is the answer to the declining morality of today's student (with all the smp sex tape happening), not to 'islamize' the whole nation.
                          Indonesia is perplexing. Deal with it!

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                          • #28
                            Big Nyonya makes a good point about external morality (i.e., clothing) covering up internal libertine (e.g., sex on internet or via HP).

                            However, it sounds like she is too much in the Jakarta bubble. Outside of large cities, do you really think there are malls for kids to go to when they cabut/bolos? Guess again.

                            Indoctrinate basically means to "teach a set of beliefs uncritically" -- a "doctrine" such as santri Islam in Indonesia. This is precisely what happens. What kind of questions (if any) are asked by students in religion class? What kind of alternative viewpoints are taught by the teacher? What does the curriculum (geared to a required final exam) allow?

                            Scooter is correct that failure to mention other religions in anything resembling a neutral light (and I do call if a failure if "religion" is the general topic, rather than "doctrines of my religion") is part of the problem.

                            But Indonesia is still young, less than 70 years since merdeka and some people still remember it. So, there is still an underlying panic about being recolonized (difficult to get permanent residence status until a couple years ago, foreigners can't own land, etc.). This is evidenced by use of fixed curriculum indoctrination in history class, not just religion class.

                            One might also suggest that Islam is still in a panic after over a millennium, always "defending" itself from naughty images, freethinkers, sleepiness, etc. as if the religion might be extinguished overnight, which was a real fear in the time of Nabi Mohammed.
                            Last edited by martindo; 12-07-14, 09:13.

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                            • #29
                              Rebuttal to Yenni Kwok by Ratna Sarumpaet, a human rights activist:
                              http://pemilu.tempo.co/read/news/201...eo-Pro-Prabowo

                              She refers to the Hong Kong proofreader/reporter as a "foreigner" so I assume Yenni is not Indonesian.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by martindo View Post
                                Rebuttal to Yenni Kwok by Ratna Sarumpaet, a human rights activist:
                                http://pemilu.tempo.co/read/news/201...eo-Pro-Prabowo

                                She refers to the Hong Kong proofreader/reporter as a "foreigner" so I assume Yenni is not Indonesian.
                                Ratna Sarumpaet called Yenni Kwok 'Tionghoa', that means 'Chinese' in Hokkien dialect. Not necessarily a foreigner. Chinese Indonesians can also be called Tionghoa. It's similar to 'bule' for caucasian expats.

                                Ratna menjelaskan Yenny merupakan keturunan Tionghoa yang sebelumnya bekerja di Asia Week tinggal di Kramat. "Dulu kerja di Asia Week tinggal di Kramat keturunan Tionghoa," jawab Ratna
                                http://www.merdeka.com/peristiwa/fot...sarumpaet.html
                                Last edited by Chotto Matte; 14-07-14, 10:55.
                                [FONT=comic sans ms]Please excuse my poor English. [/FONT]

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