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Public Schools in Indonesia Feel Islamic Pressure

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  • Public Schools in Indonesia Feel Islamic Pressure

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/16/wo...?ref=asia&_r=0
    From NY Times
    [COLOR=#333333][FONT=Verdana]Some love to milk Apostate.[/FONT][/COLOR]

  • #2
    Sadly, that's true, most public schools in Indonesia now are no longer neutral and reflect the multicultural heritage of a country that recognizes six religions.
    [FONT=times new roman]Follow your heart, but take your brain with you.[/FONT]

    Comment


    • #3
      The country may recognize 6 religions but it seems the education of it's youth is run by those that want to kill any education that may prepare a student for college or the workplace. Instead they seem to want to just make more unquestioning followers. Sad.
      [COLOR=#333333][FONT=Verdana]Some love to milk Apostate.[/FONT][/COLOR]

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by fastpitch17 View Post
        Instead they seem to want to just make more unquestioning followers. Sad.


        sounds like the companies I worked for.....



        .... anyway , we finally took our 3 out of this absolutely pathetic joke of a public school system & after these holidays they will be starting at private schools .... we couldn't tell the schools the truth, wouldn't want them to lose face now would we.... besides , they use extortion by holding reports
        Last edited by macvert; 16-06-14, 20:06.
        The answer is 42 .... any questions? .

        Comment


        • #5
          When I interview candidates who have been educated exclusively in the Indonesian school system, it is really noticeable how completely unprepared they are for work, especially a lack of mental skills and just being on some parallel wavelength. Unfortunately now I only interview people if they have spent time out of the country, for the rest it's a waste of time. I find it very sad that this will now get worse.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Berlarutlarut View Post
            Unfortunately now I only interview people if they have spent time out of the country, for the rest it's a waste of time. I find it very sad that this will now get worse.


            1 of our new schools has a student exchange program with Albany in Western Australia ..... would you think this could be effected?
            The answer is 42 .... any questions? .

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by macvert View Post
              .... anyway , we finally took our 3 out of this absolutely pathetic joke of a public school system & after these holidays they will be starting at private schools ....
              Not much different there unfortunately, my kids have always attended private schools and their idea of religious education is also seriouly flawed and prejudiced in the fact that the kids are divided up into "religions" and then taught about their own religion only (ie Muslim kids only get taught Islam) when i approached the schools religious teacher about this and asked if my child would be taught the outlines of the other religious belief systems recognised by the school he looked shocked that i would even consider wanting my kid to learn about Christianity or Hinduism. Deciding that i would get nowhere trying to explain my thoughts and feelings on this to him, i decided to seek audience with the organ grinder and went to discuss the matter with the headmaster instead. He was also shocked that i would want my kid to learn about other religions and had no concept of my kid getting a well rounded, balanced, and unbiased religious education, and refused to be open to suggestion of my boy actually sitting in on the other religions classes after all knowledge is power. Needless to say he flatly refused. It would seem this outdated and close minded mentality is also prevelent in private schools to, no wonder there is so much ignorance and prejudice in Indonesia, why educate when you can brainwash ?? Needless to say that as a result of this fruitless discussion i have withdrawn my child from this religious education class.

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              • #8
                Know exactly where you're coming from but anything's got to be better than our experience here ..... if they're not having a ceremony, seems they're cleaning the school .... & they have to take their own broom .... lol ..... many days they spend more time travelling than actually at school, leaving at 7am & home by 9am ..... it was like they didn't even go to school, perpetual school holidays, drive us mad ... lol ....there's much more of this kind of stuff but it tires me to think of it
                The answer is 42 .... any questions? .

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by fastpitch17 View Post
                  ---Educators like Ms. Supolo have urged the Education Ministry to take action against the spread of Islamic uniforms and other religious distinctions. But the ministry’s spokesman, Ibnu Hamad, says the central government does not have powers to intervene. Such issues “are largely under the jurisdiction of local governments, in the framework of regional autonomy,” he said.---

                  That's really it: otonomi daerah, pushed heavily by international NGOs who thought they'd get a liberal result. In fact, it just empowers small areas to emphasize their Muslim majority. As I said in another thread, learning to read in our kabupaten in Central Java is in the following sequence: Bahasa Indonesia, English, Arabic, Bahasa Java. Yes, for Muslim students, the strange non-Latin script of Arabic starts before the familiar non-Latin script of Javanese.

                  The article really isn't that great, but I never expect much from NYT in regard to Indonesia. For example, it quotes outright exaggeration/panic "Public schools are becoming religious schools" without noting that religion class is only 1 or 2 hours per WEEK.

                  Also, did anyone else notice that the bizarre "head veil" occurs 5 times and the more accurate "head scarf" appears only twice? Not sure if this was biased or inflammatory editing by NYT or less-than-fluent English on the part of an (apparently) Chinese Indonesian writer, presumably not a Muslim.

                  IIRC, NYT tries to be balanced when reporting religion domestically, utilizing Catholic writers to comment on Catholic news, Jewish to comment on Jewish, ethnic Asian to comment on Asian, etc. So, why don't they use a Muslim writer to comment on a supposed Islamization trend? Can't they find anyone on their Jakarta staff who is detached enough?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by macvert View Post
                    Know exactly where you're coming from but anything's got to be better than our experience here ..... if they're not having a ceremony, seems they're cleaning the school .... & they have to take their own broom .... lol ..... many days they spend more time travelling than actually at school, leaving at 7am & home by 9am ..... it was like they didn't even go to school, perpetual school holidays, drive us mad ... lol ....there's much more of this kind of stuff but it tires me to think of it
                    Really, Mac? What part of Indonesia do you live in? My kids here in Central Java complain about "lost childhood" because the "optional les" after school became required several years ago, lengthening the school day beyond 5 hours. Here they are gung ho to become the next Singapore or China, a sad delusion that I've railed against in other threads. Indonesians will never "catch up" to be "faster robots" the way kids are taught to be in "Tiger" type countries. Educators should focus more on developing local skills and basic knowledge for global understanding (science, world history, English, and yes comparative religion).

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by martindo View Post
                      Really, Mac? What part of Indonesia do you live in? My kids here in Central Java complain about "lost childhood" because the "optional les" after school became required several years ago, lengthening the school day beyond 5 hours. Here they are gung ho to become the next Singapore or China, a sad delusion that I've railed against in other threads. Indonesians will never "catch up" to be "faster robots" the way kids are taught to be in "Tiger" type countries. Educators should focus more on developing local skills and basic knowledge for global understanding (science, world history, English, and yes comparative religion).
                      Rural Bali where Hinduism is the order of every day ..... if you're not a Hindu when religious lessons are on you have to sit in class & do nothing (this includes Christians & Muslims) but it is demanded that all students take part in the Hindu ceremonies which as you probably know can make you dizzy with their frequency..... & did you see my post in another thread where I told about 300 children being sent home from school for 2 & 3 days at a time because 3 little girls had started crying? .... this happened on a few occasions during our 1 year experience .... they said it was because the students were possessed by demons & they didn't want it spreading to all the students .....
                      The answer is 42 .... any questions? .

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by macvert View Post
                        did you see my post in another thread where I told about 300 children being sent home from school for 2 & 3 days at a time because 3 little girls had started crying? .... this happened on a few occasions during our 1 year experience .... they said it was because the students were possessed by demons & they didn't want it spreading to all the students .....
                        hahaha
                        the same happened in my high school


                        well I graduated from public high school, one of the favorite one here, I thought the school was gonna be different than any other public schools judging by all the tests I needed to pass to go to this school.

                        but They imposed Muslim girls to use hijab every friday, I and a very few other of my friends are not Muslim, so we stood out from the rest 1000 students, and it made us uncomfortable.. you know people stared at you, etc

                        One day I decided to sit in on one of the so called religious education. I was shocked when the teacher told my classmates not to choose PDI-P because non-Muslim parties joined PDIP coalition. I cant believe it, he was a teacher, how could he say that?? I am very disappointed no wonder there are a lot of prejudice against non-Muslim here.
                        [FONT=tahoma]be strong.. I whispered to my wi-fi signal[/FONT]

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I had a Dutch friend in Yogya some 20 years ago who said that his stepdaughter was taught in school that you have to wash hands after touching non-Muslim. This was totally laughable to my wife's family, who are diligent Muslims, most of whom now wear jilbab as a "daily fashion" statement. They just saw the "washing" as raw ignorance and prejudice. Anyway, the jilbab by itself is NOT evidence of superstitious mindset, NYT notwithstanding.

                          Mass hysteria is very common in Indonesia -- it happens at least once a year, usually when a large number of girls at the same school fail Ujian Nasional. But is that a surprise? If you have widespread belief that any "animation" of nature like the movement of a leaf is an intentional force, then ghosts are easy to believe in, and hysteria and mass hypnosis not far behind. At least, they are detached enough to recognize amok, but usually after the fact.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by martindo View Post
                            I had a Dutch friend in Yogya some 20 years ago who said that his stepdaughter was taught in school that you have to wash hands after touching non-Muslim. This was totally laughable to my wife's family, who are diligent Muslims, most of whom now wear jilbab as a "daily fashion" statement. They just saw the "washing" as raw ignorance and prejudice. Anyway, the jilbab by itself is NOT evidence of superstitious mindset, NYT notwithstanding.

                            Mass hysteria is very common in Indonesia -- it happens at least once a year, usually when a large number of girls at the same school fail Ujian Nasional. But is that a surprise? If you have widespread belief that any "animation" of nature like the movement of a leaf is an intentional force, then ghosts are easy to believe in, and hysteria and mass hypnosis not far behind. At least, they are detached enough to recognize amok, but usually after the fact.
                            This is somewhat consistent with the Shafi'i jurists, who have ruled that men and women must perform wudu if they have touched non-Mahram people and also members of the opposite sex. As non-Muslims would usually be non-Mahram as well, that's absolutely true. It would not merely be washing of the hands, but of their hands, mouth, nose, face, arms, hair, ears and feet. This would have to be performed prior to their next obligatory salat, though it is preferable to remain in a state of wudu when possible.

                            Now, I will say that *I* personally disagree and find this to be absurdly conservative in outlook but, as I have said many times before, Indonesia's preferred tradition of fiqh is quite conservative. That's why I am amused by articles like this one that claim that Indonesia has a "moderate" form of Islam. If they only knew...

                            Also, I am almost positive that your wife's family adhere to Shafi'i interpretation of fiqh. Almost everyone there in Indonesia does, it's very rare to see another madhab. A telltale way to know is how they sit in prayer, if they rest their left leg completely flat and pass their right leg across their body under the right leg while maintaining the right foot with its heel up they are sitting in a style called tawarruk. It's like this:

                            iftirosy-tawarruk2.jpg

                            Note the difference in the right hand position. This is how almost all Indonesians do it, and it's different from how most other Muslims do it by just sitting on their left foot. Anyway, it would probably be enlightening for most of you to see how these jurists make their rulings, and I think many would be surprised about the "moderate" character of their religion.

                            Edit: I'd also like to add that my wife performs wudu even after she touches ME. That's how conservative we're talking here.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by DanInAceh View Post
                              This is somewhat consistent with the Shafi'i jurists, who have ruled that men and women must perform wudu if they have touched non-Mahram people and also members of the opposite sex. As non-Muslims would usually be non-Mahram as well, that's absolutely true. It would not merely be washing of the hands, but of their hands, mouth, nose, face, arms, hair, ears and feet. This would have to be performed prior to their next obligatory salat, though it is preferable to remain in a state of wudu when possible.

                              Now, I will say that *I* personally disagree and find this to be absurdly conservative in outlook but, as I have said many times before, Indonesia's preferred tradition of fiqh is quite conservative. That's why I am amused by articles like this one that claim that Indonesia has a "moderate" form of Islam. If they only knew...
                              That's pretty funny Dan. Reminds me of children.
                              Don't touch her, you'll get cooties and your skin will fall off.
                              compared to
                              Don't touch her, you will get nonmuslimness and your foreskin will grow back.
                              Pretty close to one being as funny as the other in their relationship.
                              [COLOR=#333333][FONT=Verdana]Some love to milk Apostate.[/FONT][/COLOR]

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