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Hard-Liners Attack Church in Yogya

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  • Interloper
    replied
    Originally posted by brodee View Post
    Maybe John Lennon,another Prophet died for our sins..Give Peace a Chance
    My favorite parable; Happiness is a warm gun.

    Leave a comment:


  • Niko Z.
    replied
    No, the summary is about minority rights being under violent attack in what is considered one of the most tolerant places in Indonesia and a barometer for the entire nation.

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  • Donting101
    replied
    Sounds like the summary of the thread is religious idiots attacking/abusing other religious idiots who wear a different hat?

    Leave a comment:


  • Niko Z.
    replied
    Originally posted by indobased View Post
    My mother can't recognize "her Indonesia" anymore. It makes her sad. When she moved from Indonesia to Europe in the late 1960's she left a far more open minded and tolerant country behind than it is today. As a muslim girl it was not uncommon to have your parents send you to a catholic school if they thought that is where she would get a better education. She has many beautiful memories of those days.
    If it makes you feel any better, that still happens in Bukittinggi and Pekanbaru.

    When I was assigned to teach in Yogya by my university some eight years ago, they impressed upon me the idea that Yogya is the center of civility, tolerance and stability in Indonesia. Since then, many terrorist groups have moved their command centers to Yogya and Solo area. It definitely grieves me to see this take place. All is not lost though, Yogya is the only area in Indonesia where the Governor (Sultan) publicly stated Ahmadis are welcome to settle and values of tolerance are to be respected.

    Leave a comment:


  • macvert
    replied
    Originally posted by brodee View Post
    Maybe John Lennon,another Prophet died for our sins..Give Peace a Chance


    just a mention of his name & the masses are silent..... or maybe they're out burning their MP3's?......
    Last edited by macvert; 05-06-14, 19:17.

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  • macvert
    replied
    Originally posted by brodee View Post
    Maybe John Lennon,another Prophet died for our sins..Give Peace a Chance
    I must admit that J.L. crossed my mind when I read LittleMonster's post #24

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  • ponyexpress
    replied
    Originally posted by DanInAceh View Post
    I thought I made it pretty clear that they (the Muslims) were shooting themselves in the foot. Let me restate that for the record. Arson attacks, threats of violence, murder and so on are all terribly ineffective ways of preventing Christianity from taking root in an area. In fact, it probably encourages them. It validates their world view that they are the righteous and are being "tested" in their faith through various trials and tribulations. They get off on this kind of thing, it's the martyrdom that they crave above all else. This is true of all Abrahamic faiths.

    The antidote for Christianity, the most effective means of countering it, is to "hit them where it hurts." By that I mean developing stronger institutions than the ones they'll attempt to bring in. Christians have long preyed upon the destitute, so organizing religious charity from all other faiths is an effective means of countering their efforts. So too is establishing the validity of all other religions to the exception of Christianity. The Sultan would be wise to build more temples of other faiths and to encourage their development. None of the other faiths are an actual threat to Islam, so it's a token gesture that provides the cover of tolerance while simultaneously undermining Christianity.

    Also, I take exception to your characterization that I am a "hard-liner." Take it back.
    First of all, I am happy to retract what I have written about you. Your aversion to some sects of Christianity is pretty clear and in many occasions you express your hostile view towards them in this forum. The main difference between you and those hard-liners is arguably the mob mentality and their use of violent acts. But you object to be grouped into their camp despite sharing some unsympathetic views on Christianity. So my apologies.

    Secondly, you didn't make it clear that these Muslims are shooting themselves in the foot. Your first response to the news I posted was a diatribe against Christianity rather than about these radicals who have gone amok. I am neither a hardcore Christian follower nor a muslim hater, but I despise those who think of people from a different religious group is less important than their own people. I don't like conservative morons who were up in arm against the plan of building a muslim school in Sydney. But I also hate these Muslim groups who hurt others in the name of religion.

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  • brodee
    replied
    Maybe John Lennon,another Prophet died for our sins..Give Peace a Chance

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  • brodee
    replied
    Does anyone apart from me believe that 'speaking in tongues' was originally people just speaking in another/foreign language at the time? Not some ridiculous incoherent made up on the spot babbling

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  • naughtygab
    replied
    i will tell that to Moses.. and let him part the red sea with some

    if my comments on money and pastors are disturbing to you, then.. well what can i say. that's what i believe.., call i also find your points annoying and insulting.

    have you ever heard " lakum dinukum waliyadin" ?

    sounds like it's a miracle if you can implement that in your daily life Dan


    Originally posted by DanInAceh View Post

    I do not expect miracles. No one should.

    Your comments on money and pastors are disturbing, to be blunt.

    Leave a comment:


  • thediamond
    replied
    what's disturbing with that? you never give any money to your ustad?

    Accepting money is halal corrupting money is haram...can you see the different?

    Leave a comment:


  • DanInAceh
    replied
    Originally posted by naughtygab View Post
    - note: my internet is getting slow so i cant reply with the 'reply with quote, it resulted a weird look on my screen -

    Dan, are you sure you dont mix pentecostal with christian scientific? .

    .. i have a lot of pentecostal friends, and even my pentecostal pastors go to the doctors and got surgery at the hospitals ( not just one pastors..and not just one church.. ) . last time i was sick and needed surgery, those pentecostal friends came and pray... they asked "if possible that i could be healed without the surgery, but if not, please bless the doctors and nurses so the surgery would be fine according to His will" .. i cant see no wrong in their prayers.

    faith healing is miracle. are you saying you dont believe in miracle Dan?

    in the other hand christian scientific is totally different. just like tom cruise forbid katie holmes to have surgery when delivering their baby. which i absolutely disagree with them.

    when i tithe, i question where it goes for sure. there's an update about how much money they get and what do they do with the money.
    if big part goes to the pastor, then it's his blessing. If God doesnt want to give blessing toward him, there will always be a way that he wont enjoy the money. same like my moslem friends say' uang haram enaknya gak lama/ tidak bisa dinikmati"

    but how much i tithe, it's the pact between me and Him. if i want to give 10% 20% or 100% or none that should be my right, no pastor should interfere with that. and do you question your masjid where do all those money go??
    Tom Cruise is a scientologist, which has nothing to do with Christianity. Christian Science is something entirely different.

    I do not expect miracles. No one should.

    Your comments on money and pastors are disturbing, to be blunt.

    Leave a comment:


  • naughtygab
    replied
    - note: my internet is getting slow so i cant reply with the 'reply with quote, it resulted a weird look on my screen -

    Dan, are you sure you dont mix pentecostal with christian scientific? .

    .. i have a lot of pentecostal friends, and even my pentecostal pastors go to the doctors and got surgery at the hospitals ( not just one pastors..and not just one church.. ) . last time i was sick and needed surgery, those pentecostal friends came and pray... they asked "if possible that i could be healed without the surgery, but if not, please bless the doctors and nurses so the surgery would be fine according to His will" .. i cant see no wrong in their prayers.

    faith healing is miracle. are you saying you dont believe in miracle Dan?

    in the other hand christian scientific is totally different. just like tom cruise forbid katie holmes to have surgery when delivering their baby. which i absolutely disagree with them.

    when i tithe, i question where it goes for sure. there's an update about how much money they get and what do they do with the money.
    if big part goes to the pastor, then it's his blessing. If God doesnt want to give blessing toward him, there will always be a way that he wont enjoy the money. same like my moslem friends say' uang haram enaknya gak lama/ tidak bisa dinikmati"

    but how much i tithe, it's the pact between me and Him. if i want to give 10% 20% or 100% or none that should be my right, no pastor should interfere with that. and do you question your masjid where do all those money go??

    Leave a comment:


  • DanInAceh
    replied
    Originally posted by naughtygab View Post
    what about this??
    Same thing. Hucksters and frauds. Laugh at them and expose them. That is the correct course of action. Permitting it to continue based on "religious tolerance" is absurd.

    Leave a comment:


  • DanInAceh
    replied
    Originally posted by thediamond View Post
    He said he was sorry for insulting but he keep goin
    Actually, what I said was that I apologize if naughty misinterpreted this as an attack on Christianity in general.

    I will never say that speaking in tongues is somehow a healthy form of religious expression.

    Leave a comment:

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