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Atheists please stay away from this country!

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Hong Xiuquan View Post
    Atheists get annoyed with religious people even when the Atheists are in the majority in certain Western countries...so it must be really hard for Atheists in Indonesia....they must get really disturbed with so much religion everywhere.......believing they have the truth and not having the right to officially state their true beliefs (this could be taken to be a sarcastic comment but it's not. Please take it as a true 'I'm putting myself in your shoes' comment. Most people in Indonesia are allowed to state their 'real' beliefs but Atheists are denied this basic right.
    I am an Atheist but was born into a Christian family. Contrary to your statement, I am not disturbed with religion. I only get annoyed if a religous person come to me and start preaching or try to convert me.

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    • #32
      Personally, I don't mind if anyone wants to share their beliefs with me. It shows that they have passion for something. The thing that irks me is when the person doesn't listen when I politely decline their invitation to be "saved", then they suggest that I'm an awful person for not jumping on-board their spiritual bandwagon.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by quantumFog View Post
        Personally, I don't mind if anyone wants to share their beliefs with me. It shows that they have passion for something. The thing that irks me is when the person doesn't listen when I politely decline their invitation to be "saved", then they suggest that I'm an awful person for not jumping on-board their spiritual bandwagon.
        Very true indeed! I would have told him or her to F*k off.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by martindo View Post
          Depends what you mean by "public". There is a Sikh temple in Jakarta and there was a Jewish synagogue in Surabaya until developers tore it down last May.
          Does anyone have any more information on the demolition of the synagogue? I was hoping to visit it someday. Whatever happened with Confucianism? I see people go back and forth with that there are 5 or 6 religions. Is that why?

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          • #35
            http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2...torn-down.html

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            • #36
              That is really awful that this has occurred. It was a beautiful building if my memory of it is correct.
              Things happen for a reason...

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              • #37
                Surabaya has recently had some problems with developers glomming "cultural heritage" buildings. See Rakyat Merdeka Online of May 28 last year, reporting that the synagogue was razed to the ground on or shortly before May 25. It had been declared a protected Cultural Heritage site on April 16, 2009 by decree No. 646/1654/436.6.14/2009.

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                • #38
                  @jukung: although national law recognizes Konhucu (Confucianism) as a sixth "protected" religion, the Otonomi Daerah (regional autonomy) pushed by international NGOs has enabled various kabupaten to retain the straitjacket concept that "there are only 5 religions in the world". For example, the software that spits out a KTP or KK might be programmed to NOT allow "lain-lain" (Other) or Confucianism in the religion data field -- only 5 choices are possible.

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                  • #39
                    How long do you think it'll be before these Islamic lunatics try to destroy borabador, like what happened in Afghanistan with the giant Buddhas?

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                    • #40
                      They already did around 25 or 30 years ago. Read a Borobudur blurb or go on a tour and you will learn about a couple of buddhas in the stupas on top that were damaged by explosives back then -- during the supposedly "stable" and "secure" and "orderly" era of Suharto.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Donting101 View Post
                        How long do you think it'll be before these Islamic lunatics try to destroy borabador, like what happened in Afghanistan with the giant Buddhas?
                        They've had centuries to do so.

                        Observe that it is not so much that they Islamic, but that they are fanatical. Such defacement or supremacist attempts to erase the past (or in some cases, emulate its glory as in Hagia Sophia) are common to all religions, and I do mean all of them. It is a matter of opposing fanatical attitudes, one that should be easy to counter considering the importance such structures and artwork have for modern humans.

                        For example, someone a few years back argued in this forum that the Pyramids were somehow in grave danger. I did note that their construction would be EXTREMELY difficult to erase due to their size and materials, but also I noted that the locals do love their ancient monuments. It's difficult to erase pride in the work of their forebears or at least the ancient inhabitants of the region. Such a fanatical attitude is unusual, and it's one that I doubt can be sustained outside of brief periods of anarchy.

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                        • #42
                          I don't think using the Pyramids is a useful example. "Brief periods of anarchy" are sufficient windows to empty a museum, destroy a synagogue, massacre a village, let alone the more protracted periods available when power/government is in the hands of people with very narrow views of the world. Let's not use the term fanatics in case it somehow muddies the waters.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by john madden View Post
                            I don't think using the Pyramids is a useful example. "Brief periods of anarchy" are sufficient windows to empty a museum, destroy a synagogue, massacre a village, let alone the more protracted periods available when power/government is in the hands of people with very narrow views of the world. Let's not use the term fanatics in case it somehow muddies the waters.
                            It wasn't a useful example, just an example from this forum to demonstrate the irrational fear of monuments being destroyed by insidious Muslims.

                            The periods where there is mass destruction of pre-existing monuments and art is usually one of two scenarios:

                            1.) A wave of religious fervor that sweeps the land. Oliver Cromwell is a good example; the Puritans ransacked churches throughout the "Protectorate." Another might be the attempt to erase Akhenaten's monotheistic revolution.

                            2.) An invasive population conquers the land and attempts to erase all attributes of the previous population. The Roman destruction of the Temple could be interpreted as this, as could much of the European conquest of the Americas.

                            In the case of the first example, these are almost always brief periods where a fanatical few do it because they have been been enabled. The society usually returns to sanity shortly thereafter, once the fanatics are deemed to be so oppressive as to be removed. Afghanistan is an example of a country mired in chaos. That vacuum in authority allowed the Taliban the chance to remove what they deemed to be "jahil" statues. Such a vacuum does not presently exist in Indonesia, though it certainly could some day. It is unlikely that any authority, Islamic or not, is going to destroy a complex like Borobudur unless a brief wave of fanaticism occurs, and that usually occurs in reaction to some outside cause.

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