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  • More elephants killed in Sumatra

    http://www.straitstimes.com/breaking...s-suspected-20

    Heartbreaking news...

  • #2
    Such a terrible waste, because of greed and stupidity. Destroying a national treasure for a few more gallons of palm oil.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by yardmaster View Post
      Such a terrible waste, because of greed and stupidity. Destroying a national treasure for a few more gallons of palm oil.
      Such a complex issue with no quick fixes. Meanwhile the Elephants, Tigers, Orangatans are dying and native people are losing their homes. Living in Bengkulu, I've had a few offers for investing in palm - i wouldn't touch it with a barge pole - to me its blood money. From what I'm told 1 hectare would yield rp50 - 80 jutah, so its a serious business and you can easily see where the greed factor comes in. Used in everything from napalm to countless food products and cosmetics. If we keep demanding it, they'll keep planting it. here's an interesting site http://www.saynotopalmoil.com

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      • #4
        Very sad indeed. But you're right that this is a complex issue. Although looking at this with a half glass empty, the deaths of these native animals will hardly cause any blip in Indonesia. Deforestation has been happening since the New Order took control and the news about the killings and discrimination against people with different belief will also soon be submerged by the hype of political scandals.

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        • #5
          Killing wildlife is very sad for our world, forest are reduces after killing the animals like elephants. its a really serious point to discuss on this a make any solution for stopping that killings.

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          • #6
            [SIZE=3][FONT=arial]Shoot-on-site order issued for haze offenders in Riau[/FONT][/SIZE]

            http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2...ders-riau.html

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Stephen Flynn View Post
              Such a complex issue with no quick fixes. Meanwhile the Elephants, Tigers, Orangatans are dying and native people are losing their homes. Living in Bengkulu, I've had a few offers for investing in palm - i wouldn't touch it with a barge pole - to me its blood money. From what I'm told 1 hectare would yield rp50 - 80 jutah, so its a serious business and you can easily see where the greed factor comes in. Used in everything from napalm to countless food products and cosmetics. If we keep demanding it, they'll keep planting it. here's an interesting site http://www.saynotopalmoil.com
              If people don't use palm oil, what else will they use? I don't mean to be facetious, but beyond imposing environmental regulations, the only solution to stopping conversion of forested land into palm plantations would be to reduce palm oil use (and thus the greed incentive). Since it's probably unlikely that people will stop frying their food en masse, that would mean using different types of oil, which inevitably have to come from somewhere in equal quantities. Are there more environmentally safe alternatives suitable for global and affordable use? To honest, I don't know, but only because I'm shamefully ignorant about this issue.

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              • #8
                Very telling, especially your last sentence.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Fractal Fox View Post
                  If people don't use palm oil, what else will they use? I don't mean to be facetious, but beyond imposing environmental regulations, the only solution to stopping conversion of forested land into palm plantations would be to reduce palm oil use (and thus the greed incentive). Since it's probably unlikely that people will stop frying their food en masse, that would mean using different types of oil, which inevitably have to come from somewhere in equal quantities. Are there more environmentally safe alternatives suitable for global and affordable use? To honest, I don't know, but only because I'm shamefully ignorant about this issue.
                  10 or 15 years ago the Amazon was being heavily logged for timber and crops - amongst them soybean oil - and to this day it's still under heavy pressure. Theres arguments out there that say Indonesia/Malaysia palm oil saves the Amazon. It would appear to come down to economics, and that palm oil appears to be a healthier alternative to many other veg oils. Sumatra has become expendable!! Your right, as long as their are countries that have a dependence on fried food, which pretty much includes every country to a degree, but especially the main offenders would be India, Indonesia, China, US. Speaking from personal experience as my wife is Fiji Indian - for Indians food isn't food unless its been fried first in Oil - used to be ghee, but thats now a luxury item. They go through litres a week - its a staple - 1.2 billion times X amount of litres daily -mind boggling. And going by this story - their consumption is rising steadily India's per capita consumption of edible oil might rise 4%
                  There is no real alternative. My advice - visit Sumatra and see the animals while you still can..things are well beyond the 11th hour environmentally speaking, in Indonesia.

                  There's a glimmer of hope as long as guy's like Bruce Levick are around. Bruce is a fellow aussie guy living in Bengkulu (he's rarely at home though). He dedicates his life to trying to preserve the Elephants and also does stellar work for the local children's orphanages around Bengkulu.

                  He was one of the save Bona the baby elephant team a few years back, and decided to stay. http://www.savebona.com
                  Currently he's got a fund raiser selling T-shirts - check it out http://oururth.com/shop/tee-shirts/u...t-me-bona-tee/
                  100% legit and every dollar will go into trying to document what's going on up here and directly into elephants mouths - Bruce personally hand feeds orphaned elephants.

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                  • #10
                    Thanks for the info, I will.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by waarmstrong View Post
                      Very telling, especially your last sentence.
                      What is your solution then?

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by waarmstrong View Post
                        Very telling, especially your last sentence.
                        waarmstrong,

                        I agree that I did not finish with the most flattering portrayal of myself. That is because I try to subscribe to this proverb, attributed to many authors:

                        He who knows not and knows not that he knows not is a fool; avoid him.
                        He who knows not and knows that he knows not is a student*; teach him.
                        He who knows and knows not that he knows is asleep; wake him.
                        He who knows and knows that he knows is a wise man; follow him.
                        (* This is also said as "willing", "child", "ignorant", and "simple". Ignorance in this sense is seen as a positive, as someone who merely requires - and is willing to receive - teaching, which I think has changed in modern contexts to someone whom should rather be avoided.)

                        I think it is better to admit when I don't know something, rather than risk looking like a fool by pretending to possess non-existent knowledge. It also allows for those who do possess actual knowledge to help me learn more, as Stephen does above and a friend does below. After posting my comment, I reached out (or more accurately, my fiancee did) to a friend who studies plant breeding and genetics, and has studied rapeseed and palm oil. I've translated what he said from the original (slang-laden) Indonesian, so it's a bit ragged (no doubt because of my own inadequacy with Bahasa Indonesia), but hopefully is true to what he said.
                        [SIZE=3]
                        The most common type of cooking oil in Indonesia[/SIZE]


                        Currently, approximately 99% of cooking oil in Indonesia is from palm oil. Other sources of vegetable oil are derived from coconut, corn, and soybeans (the percentage is very small).

                        [SIZE=3]What was the previously predominant type of cooking oil?[/SIZE]

                        Palm oil boomed in the mid-1980s [I believe he means that the boom started in the mid-1980s]. Previously, coconut oil dominated. Palm oil and coconut oil have different characteristics. Palm oil is richer in oleic acid while coconut oil contains a lot of lauric acid that is widely used for cosmetics and in the healthcare industries.

                        [SIZE=3]Relation of palm plantations to other oil plantations, and whether both types have the same ecological issues[/SIZE]

                        Oil palm plantation is often associated with deforestation. When compared with other vegetable oils (soybean in the U.S. and Brazil, canola/rapeseed oil in Europe and Canada, sunflower oil, corn oil), palm productivity is much higher. For info, palm oil can produce up to 6 tonnes of oil/ha (genetic potential of up to 9 tonnes/ha), while the maximum from canola is 2 tonnes/ha. If we have to switch from palm oil (e.g. reason environmental issues), other vegetable oils would consequently require a much larger area to produce the same amount of oil - that is not efficient.

                        The palm oil plant with an annual economic life of 25 years, so that agronomic measures (land preparation, etc.) is only done per a cycle of 25 years. Differences with soybean or canola is a plant a year.

                        About ecological issues, that in my view, almost all agricultural crops will have an impact on the environment due to changes in the macro and micro of a heterogeneous situation (forest) to a monoculture. Measures such as agronomic cultivation, organic fertilizer, pesticide use for handling HPT will undoubtedly have an effect on the environment. Such is the case with palm oil or other vegetable oils. The issue is how to produce crops in an efficient and environmentally friendly way for maximum output. A Canadian man once said, if only oil palm can be grown in temperate regions, they would replace canola oil with palm oil because of its higher efficiency.

                        Environmental issues are more towards the government's willingness to comply with the highland primary forests or peatlands they set themselves. In fact, in the reformation era the Regent Heads provided the same level of clearing permits for palm oil, without knowing for sure the land designated on a national scale. You know yourself about the chaotic coordination of the BPN within districts. This is at the root of the problem of ecological issues of oil palm plantations. Plus "unreliable" consultant feasibility studies that always claim the area is suitable for palm oil, despite the fact that the minimum standards for oil palm land is not necessarily fulfilled.

                        [In a follow-up email, he said...]

                        I forgot to say that oil palm plantations in Indonesia started in 1911 in Sumatra, and continued to increase until 1950 (colonial era), stagnated in the 1950–1965 era, and emerged again in about 1970. The area used for palm plantations in Indonesia has jumped dramatically since 1990.

                        I don't have the details of the adequacy of vegetable oils in the 1960–1990 era before oil palm dominated. But I've read in the 1970–1990 era PTPN VI (Riau and Jambi area) and some private companies (Sambu group) had a coconut plantation that was quite extensive.

                        Skyrocketing plantation area and production of palm oil demand is associated with higher vegetable world, especially from China, India, and Pakistan, in addition to development opportunities of vegetable oil-based fuels (biodiesel). The emergence of palm oil as a competitor (superior production, lower prices), more or less affects the demand for soybean oil, canola oil, and corn oil production centers in developed countries. The producers in the countries seek to protect their products and they have many ways to hinder the development of the oil market in their territory, including through eco-friendly labeling, EU Directive about carbon emissions, etc. And ironically it only applies to palm oil. Environmental issues are most easily done as a judgment for their products' protection. Whereas the production of soybean oil in Brazil and in the U.S. (which uses GMO material) have also given rise to problems, it rarely rises to the top.

                        I do not close my eyes that palm oil development has a major impact on reducing the forest area in Indonesia, which also has a negative impact on the wildlife habitats, including orangutans, elephants, tigers, etc. The fundamental error of this country is the inconsistency of government officials in protecting the forbidden zone (forest conservation). Frankly, I am also at wit's end about the collusion between businessmen and the authorities. The RSPO (Roundtable for Sustainable Palm Oil) Rules has a very slow implementation. The loss of the conservation zone (as a result of licensing policy) pushes orangutans and elephants into the plantations. Fieldworkers, who only know about tehnical matters, try to protect the plantation. Then there is a problem with the orangutans and elephants. I think employers should collaborate with conservationists to map the zone/safe corridor for wildlife through the CSR function. It is simple but hard to do because of differences in perspective.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Stephen Flynn View Post
                          10 or 15 years ago the Amazon was being heavily logged for timber and crops - amongst them soybean oil - and to this day it's still under heavy pressure. Theres arguments out there that say Indonesia/Malaysia palm oil saves the Amazon. It would appear to come down to economics, and that palm oil appears to be a healthier alternative to many other veg oils. Sumatra has become expendable!! Your right, as long as their are countries that have a dependence on fried food, which pretty much includes every country to a degree, but especially the main offenders would be India, Indonesia, China, US. Speaking from personal experience as my wife is Fiji Indian - for Indians food isn't food unless its been fried first in Oil - used to be ghee, but thats now a luxury item. They go through litres a week - its a staple - 1.2 billion times X amount of litres daily -mind boggling. And going by this story - their consumption is rising steadily India's per capita consumption of edible oil might rise 4% There is no real alternative. My advice - visit Sumatra and see the animals while you still can..things are well beyond the 11th hour environmentally speaking, in Indonesia. There's a glimmer of hope as long as guy's like Bruce Levick are around. Bruce is a fellow aussie guy living in Bengkulu (he's rarely at home though). He dedicates his life to trying to preserve the Elephants and also does stellar work for the local children's orphanages around Bengkulu. He was one of the save Bona the baby elephant team a few years back, and decided to stay. http://www.savebona.com Currently he's got a fund raiser selling T-shirts - check it out http://oururth.com/shop/tee-shirts/u...t-me-bona-tee/ 100% legit and every dollar will go into trying to document what's going on up here and directly into elephants mouths - Bruce personally hand feeds orphaned elephants.
                          I posted what my friend said above, and it corroborates a lot of what you say. The irony is that if the Amazon is saved by palm oil in Indonesia and Malaysia, what is saved is used to satiate the demand of McDonald's consumers for more beef. Consumption is the fundamental problem, and its solution (eat and use less) is as simple as it is ostensibly unacceptable to most people.

                          I've worked with a number of conservationists and I've always found it rewarding, if somewhat futile. There is someone in Papua trying to save one of its endemic fish species, which only lives in Lake Sentani. Another is trying to both reduce deforestation and fix the failed reforestation in Java. Doing both is immensely difficult and frustrating. In the former case, heavy pollution from nearby businesses, increasing immigration to the lake, a nearby highway, and construction is the primary cause, but none of these will change without policy intervention. In the latter, it's simply a case of giving farmers reasons not to encroach on the protection forest, through the not-so-easy implementation of a scheme promoting alternative employment opportunities, although this failed once because of inept and corrupt management. (Incidentally, it is still inept and corrupt, and recently tried to bribe its way out of a jam when the government demanded a progress report on research that its members were too lazy to conduct. Thankfully, they failed, but it shows that merely conducting research in the area makes you a target, especially if your research shows results the powers that be don't like.) After that, it becomes a agonisingly slow process of encouraging gradual vegetation development over many decades.

                          People like Bruce are sorely needed, and their work, along with that conducted in Papua and Java, will unfortunately go thankless as long as money is perceived to be lost. That is why I had to ask outright if there is an alternative to palm oil; even after just a few years, I've come to learn that understanding the cause of many problems is simply asking, what do humans desire?

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                          • #14
                            Today's Kompas page 14, story & photo of a beheaded elephant.

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