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  • FGM in Indonesia

    http://www.thejakartaglobe.com/news/...-of-baby-girl/

    Normally locals are involved in this practice but this time an aussie and a father of the baby got arrested.

  • #2
    Originally posted by ponyexpress View Post
    http://www.thejakartaglobe.com/news/...-of-baby-girl/

    Normally locals are involved in this practice but this time an aussie and a father of the baby got arrested.
    Hmm, it's in NSW, so locals = aussies. I actually thought this was legal in Indonesia until I googled it just then ... but of course, it's not legal to have three 12-yr olds riding a motorbike with no helmets either.

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    • #3
      What a disgusting backwards and viciously barbaric practice, i feel so sorry for that poor child. Yet again misguided religious beliefs are to blame.
      The father should be jailed for child abuse, just the same as if he had cut off the kids fingers or nose, claiming its islamic should not be a defence in court.

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      • #4
        I just cannot begin to even imagine the actual procedure occurring - the screaming, the blood, the pain for the child, the risk of infection, the mutilation, the long term dysfunction... Abhorrent.
        Things happen for a reason...

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Michelle O'Brien View Post
          I just cannot begin to even imagine the actual procedure occurring - the screaming, the blood, the pain for the child, the risk of infection, the mutilation, the long term dysfunction... Abhorrent.
          And for girls it's even worse

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          • #6
            Originally posted by sutantyo View Post
            Hmm, it's in NSW, so locals = aussies. I actually thought this was legal in Indonesia until I googled it just then ... but of course, it's not legal to have three 12-yr olds riding a motorbike with no helmets either.

            It is lawful in Indonesia. The article is forthcoming with this information, stating that it was reinstated in 2010. I suspect it will remain lawful in the immediate future.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by DanInAceh View Post
              It is lawful in Indonesia. The article is forthcoming with this information, stating that it was reinstated in 2010. I suspect it will remain lawful in the immediate future.
              Every other law is ignored...this one should be too.
              Things happen for a reason...

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Michelle O'Brien View Post
                I just cannot begin to even imagine the actual procedure occurring - the screaming, the blood, the pain for the child, the risk of infection, the mutilation, the long term dysfunction... Abhorrent.
                My wife was circumcised as a child. She can achieve orgasm and is, to my knowledge, none the worse for having been circumcised. The clitoral prepuce is excised, not the clitoris itself. This does not mean that this child's experience was the same or that all women who have had it done have not been harmed. However, reports of it being mutilation are only fair if someone is opposed to all circumcision. It is otherwise comparable to circumcision for boys. If you are opposed to all forms of circumcision, and I am, then yeah... I can see that argument.

                My daughter has not been circumcised and will never be circumcised. I am personally opposed to the practice and I feel that it is permissible (halal), but not fard (obligatory). For Muslims in Indonesia, however, this practice is fard. This is because the "form" or general tradition of Islam in Indonesia is extraordinarily conservative. The Shafi'i jurists, the dominant tradition of fiqh in Indonesia, universally state that this practice is mandatory. All of the major Islamic organizations in the country back this practice, and I suspect that millions of women in Indonesia are "cut."

                Keep in mind also that this publication, the Jakarta Globe, is owned by the Riady family. Everything they say concerning Islam is extremely suspect, not just because of their status as murtad (apostates), but because they are rabid evangelicals. I would glean more information from other sources concerning this case, just to be safe, as I suspect there may be spin. It is very likely that the child only had her prepuce removed. Further mutilation is uncommon in Indonesia, and is only found in Africa (where they are also largely Shafi'i in the northeast).

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Michelle O'Brien View Post
                  Every other law is ignored...this one should be too.
                  I'm inclined to agree with you, Michelle. Even with proper medical care, something almost always absent for sunnat, I don't really see the necessity. However, Indonesia is a country that is very mindful of its highly religious population and its diverse cultures. Hombre once argued that culture itself is a poor excuse for unreasonable actions, and he was right. I think it is worthwhile to consider banning the practice. The fear seems to be that Indonesians will do it whether it is lawful or not because our shari'a is more important than the secular law of Indonesia. If that is the case, if Indonesia is truly interested in the best outcomes for young boys and girls, it should only allow the practice for those who can consent. There is no mandate for WHEN it must be performed, so I think the best argument should be that young Muslims can choose if they want it rather than to have their parents do it for them. I am normally in favor of parental rights, but in this case I just think the stakes are too high.

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                  • #10
                    Its happens in back alley "clinics" Americans and Europe too unfortunately.

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                    • #11
                      Back alley? Say what? How about rich Americans trying to be sexier? Look at #4 in this article:
                      http://www.alternet.org/story/145461..._their_vaginas

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by martindo View Post
                        Back alley? Say what? How about rich Americans trying to be sexier? Look at #4 in this article:
                        http://www.alternet.org/story/145461..._their_vaginas
                        Labiaplasty is not FGM.
                        Things happen for a reason...

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                        • #13
                          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genital...and_mutilation
                          Scroll halfway down or search within page for "designer vagina".

                          WP used to redirect search for "genital mutilation" to a page called "genital modification" which is a broader and more objective category, but I guess the politically minded editors overruled that decision.

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                          • #14
                            One being elected by the patient, the other (FGM) not. Big difference.
                            [COLOR=#333333][FONT=Verdana]Some love to milk Apostate.[/FONT][/COLOR]

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                            • #15
                              Yes, VERY big difference ... in cultures where "intention" matters. But look at something like a traffic accident in Indonesia (or even Japan) -- intention matters less than result, future health, compensation. Also, physical might mean less than other aspects of existence. Not to say that I favor this kind of practice intentional or otherwise -- and the line between voluntary/involuntary can get very blurry for supposedly consenting adults (though not for children).

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