Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Lawsuit against Loud Mosque Speakers

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #46
    Originally posted by Hombre de Maiz View Post
    You think? Are believers immune to common sense and neighborly human decency? Does belief replace common sense? It scares me to think that people need to know the ins and outs of a book written in Arabic a very long time ago in order to be civil and adopt common sense. I mean, when my neighbor comes over to my house to complain Led Zepp is a bit too loud, I don't go to my library and consult any book, secular or religious, to determine whether his complaint is justified. I also don't say to myself, "obviously she doesn't know what a revelation Led Zeppelin is. She has no taste in music, and doesn't understand the power of Rock&Roll, so I am just going to keep playing it loudly". Come on, Alia, are things among the believers so bad as that?
    Grats on being over 9K.

    We're not speaking of "people" here, we're speaking of people who uphold certain values. They aren't some amorphous mass of people, they have preconceived notions of what entails a lawful and ordered society. Part of dealing with that in realistic terms is accepting that Islam is the sole religion of the Acehnese people. If someone is going to deal with loudspeakers, it needs to take into account the religious feelings of the Acehnese.

    Besides, back home, people didn't seem to have much luck with common sense and decency. We have plenty enough people getting shot in the face for asking someone to turn down the volume. Doesn't seem like it's working out too well.

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by DanInAceh View Post
      Grats on being over 9K.

      We're not speaking of "people" here, we're speaking of people who uphold certain values. They aren't some amorphous mass of people, they have preconceived notions of what entails a lawful and ordered society. Part of dealing with that in realistic terms is accepting that Islam is the sole religion of the Acehnese people. If someone is going to deal with loudspeakers, it needs to take into account the religious feelings of the Acehnese.

      Besides, back home, people didn't seem to have much luck with common sense and decency. We have plenty enough people getting shot in the face for asking someone to turn down the volume. Doesn't seem like it's working out too well.
      Tell me what are the values in creating disturbance amongst the non-believers with a blaring noise?

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by ponyexpress View Post
        Tell me what are the values in creating disturbance amongst the non-believers with a blaring noise?
        There are none. I'm not in favor of it. As I quoted in that hadith, the religion is also apparently not in favor of it. Ergo, it can be argued from an Islamic standpoint that the activity is haram.

        But that's the point of view it needs to be presented from when dealing with the Acehnese. Not "the Golden Rule", not foreign codes of law and certainly not Indonesia's law. If you're dealing with a religious question among these people, it needs to be dealt with on religion's terms.

        Comment


        • #49
          For the sake of argument, let's look at this through Acehnese eyes for a bit. Let's say, hypothetically, the Indonesian government places a ban on recitations over loudspeakers above ______ decibels, effectively banning the practice. Lots of people everywhere will be upset by this, yes, but how will people in Aceh deal with it?

          By and large, pardon my language here, they don't give a shit what Indonesia has to say about this issue. Hell, they'll probably turn them up LOUDER in protest.

          Now, let's say instead that a well respected jurist forms a council and discusses the activity with references to an authenticated hadith like I just posted. You'll get the opposite reaction. They'd probably start dismantling the loudspeakers and burning them in the streets.

          If you want to deal with Muslims on their own turf you have to deal with them in terms they respect and understand.

          Comment


          • #50
            I see where you're getting at Dan. But we're not dealing with Muslims per se here. We're also dealing with other members of society, who aren't Muslim. So don't think the issue as something that is exclusively about Muslim. It's basically about how to live with others. If Indonesia is an Islamic country, I won't bother talk about it.
            Last edited by ponyexpress; 26-02-13, 17:27.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by DanInAceh View Post
              Your father is 100% correct.

              http://www.theonlyquran.com/hadith/S...e=4&chapter=28

              Ibn 'Abbas reported: The word of (Allah) Great and Glorious: 'And utter not thy prayer loudly, nor be low in it" (xvii. 110) was revealed as the Messenger of Allah (may peace beupon him) was hiding himself in Mecca. When he led his Companions in prayer he raised his voice (while reciting the) Qur'an. And when the polytheists heard that, they reviled the Qur'an and Him Who revealed it and him who brought it. Upon this Allah, the Exalted, said to His Apostle (may peace be upon him): Utter not thy prayer so loudly that the polytheists may hear thy recitation and (recite it) not so low that it may be inaudible to your Companions. Make them hear the Qur'an, but do not recite it loudly and seek a (middle) way between these. Recite between loud and low tone.
              Honestly, I think this issue is much bigger on Java than on Aceh. So why do the thousands of mosques not follow this? And if they don't know, how can we get that message across?
              [FONT=arial black]
              [/FONT]

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by jstar View Post
                Honestly, I think this issue is much bigger on Java than on Aceh. So why do the thousands of mosques not follow this? And if they don't know, how can we get that message across?
                With loud speakers, of course, at a volume twisted to the end of the dial.

                Comment


                • #53
                  At 2 AM?

                  [FONT=arial black]
                  [/FONT]

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    The best way to get the message across is to have the national Islamic organizations take it on. They're the only authority in this country that could positively change it.

                    I think part of it is that perhaps not everyone is aware of the above hadith or they don't agree on what constitutes "loud" or they might say that it only applies to Meccan polytheists and is not presently valid.

                    For what it's worth, I don't think this is a serious problem in most Muslim majority nations. From everything I can gather on the issue, Indonesia is the worst offender.

                    Anyway, long story short, there's nothing any of us foreigners can do about it outside of speaking with local communities and asking them about the noise level. Approach it as a community, not as a lawsuit, and I think you'll get better results.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Dan, perhaps you know the answer to this, my wife didn't know. Is today a special day in Islam? The Mosque next to my house has been broadcasting over loud speakers since 4 a.m. until now 4.5 hours straight of chants and prayers.

                      I walked outside and peeked into the Mosque, it is empty except for three people.

                      I also live in a neighborhood where there are at least 20 expat families within 500 M of the Mosque, I'm fairly confident none of them appreciated (still in progress) the non stop sound. I've turned up two TV's to almost an uncomfortable level just to be able to watch the news.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by vanuatu View Post
                        Dan, perhaps you know the answer to this, my wife didn't know. Is today a special day in Islam? The Mosque next to my house has been broadcasting over loud speakers since 4 a.m. until now 4.5 hours straight of chants and prayers.

                        I walked outside and peeked into the Mosque, it is empty except for three people.

                        I also live in a neighborhood where there are at least 20 expat families within 500 M of the Mosque, I'm fairly confident none of them appreciated (still in progress) the non stop sound. I've turned up two TV's to almost an uncomfortable level just to be able to watch the news.

                        We have that from time to time and my wife says it is normally associated with a death in the community.
                        [COLOR=#333333][FONT=Verdana]Some love to milk Apostate.[/FONT][/COLOR]

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          A musholla just next to my house is always having its khataman Al Qur'an every Wednesday. Means recitation of the entire book of Al Qur'an from the first verse til the end. Usually start from subuh to close to maghrib (sunset). This might be what is going on as well to the mosque next to your house, Vanuatu.

                          And the numbers of people aint many. 3-5 person take their turn. It is also a regular habit for us to prepare some food and drink for those who recite and bring it to the musholla.
                          Words can inspire, thoughts can provoke, but only action can get you closer to your dreams.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Alia View Post
                            A musholla just next to my house is always having its khataman Al Qur'an every Wednesday. Means recitation of the entire book of Al Qur'an from the first verse til the end. Usually start from subuh to close to maghrib (sunset). This might be what is going on as well to the mosque next to your house, Vanuatu.

                            And the numbers of people aint many. 3-5 person take their turn. It is also a regular habit for us to prepare some food and drink for those who recite and bring it to the musholla.
                            That's all fine and dandy. I, myself, would encourage--and avoid tacitly supporting by bringing them food and drink-- people to spend their time, not on rote recitation of ancient texts in a foreign language, but rather improving their own condition and those of their communities in the material world. Community-based organizations around a certain issue that impacts people's material lives across religions would be a more worthwhile occupation. Work, learning, etc. This, not the other stuff, will bring greater glory and positive recognition to your religion. I don't know if you've noticed, but the country needs a bit of work.

                            In any case, what is important is that these recitations not disturb the general public. This is not, as Dan said, as internal Muslim thing. As soon as it spills onto the public domain, it becomes the business of all alike, Muslim and non-Muslim. Do as you see fit with your time, but please don't make a public ruckus! Indonesia is not an Islamic country (alhamdulillah!), and in large cities like Surabaya there are many Muslims and non-Muslims alike disturbed by your noise. And remember, like all other bodies of belief--secular and religious--your own faith will be judged in this world not by its lofty ideals and high aims of its texts, but by the everyday practice and example of the faithful. Telling us that it is not Sunnah, or that it is not supported in your texts are things that you need to tell yourselves among yourselves. We are not interested in doctrine, scripture, etc. We are interested in outward behavior and actions.
                            Last edited by Hombre de Maiz; 27-02-13, 13:12.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Ours near us were also going off loudly from 4am for forever it felt!
                              Things happen for a reason...

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Hombre de Maiz View Post
                                Indonesia is not an Islamic country
                                With the way this country operates? Could have fooled me. I think it pays a lot of BS lipservice to diversity. This goes beyond religion, we all know my feelings on that.

                                Look, I think we all sympathize with the people who are disturbed by it. What we're saying is that there's a right way and a wrong way to go about getting it fixed. Getting self-righteous and appealing to the rule of law is the wrong way to go about it. The offenders don't give two shits about noise ordinances.

                                They will, however, listen to convincing religious arguments.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X