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Lawsuit against Loud Mosque Speakers

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  • #31
    I say we need more people like Sayed Hasan who is brave enough to comes up and say things he knew will be controversial and risky. Even my own father who is an Islamic scholar said that the voice coming from mosques' loudspeakers need to be turn down. Why ? When a muslim hears people reading Qur'an and they dont stop and listen to it carefully, they will be in sin.
    Words can inspire, thoughts can provoke, but only action can get you closer to your dreams.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by DanInAceh View Post
      Lawsuits are shari'a compliant, there's nothing inherently American about that unless we're talking "sue the bastards for everything they're worth!"
      In these lawsuits is the testimony of a woman equal to the testimony of a man?

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Alia View Post
        ... Even my own father who is an Islamic scholar said that the voice coming from mosques' loudspeakers need to be turn down. Why ? When a muslim hears people reading Qur'an and they dont stop and listen to it carefully, they will be in sin.
        The reason is simpler than that, and should require no religious training or background. The reason is that your noise may disturb others, regardless of the content of said noise. It should have nothing to do with whether the noise is Britney Spears or the recitation from a holy book. Your ritual does not take precedent over the rights of others. You are not free to pollute the environment with noise at will and at your own discretion.
        Last edited by Hombre de Maiz; 26-02-13, 15:11.

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        • #34
          It would be best for Banda Aceh to only have loudspeakers broadcast from Masjid Raya Baiturrahman. I am told that when that was the case, it was possible to hear the azaan, khutbah and recitations throughout the city.

          Using the human voice to transmit this knowledge has been good enough for 1,400 years, I think it'll be good enough for another 1,400 or more.

          I disagree with Alia though that we need more people like him, because I think his method for dealing with it is completely backwards. I think the locals took offense because he brought this forward as a civil matter. It is something that should have been discussed with his gampong as a community. We have, surprisingly, discussed this same affair in our gampong. Our consensus has been that the speakers are not a big deal. Trying to unilaterally get a court order to silence the speakers is not a solution amenable to most Acehnese.

          Speaking with the community and educating them about the Sunnah is the best way to address this problem.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Alia View Post
            Why ? When a muslim hears people reading Qur'an and they dont stop and listen to it carefully, they will be in sin.
            In that that case the place is awash with sinners
            "[COLOR=#000000][FONT=Helvetica Neue]I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it.[/FONT][/COLOR]"
            George Bernard Shaw

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Hombre de Maiz View Post
              In these lawsuits is the testimony of a woman equal to the testimony of a man?
              Depends on the charges. On witnessing debt proceedings, it's half in compliance with al-Qur'an.

              "O you who believe! when you deal with each other in contracting a debt for a fixed time, then write it down; and let a scribe write it down between you with fairness; and the scribe should not refuse to write as Allah has taught him, so he should write; and let him who owes the debt dictate, and he should be careful of (his duty to) Allah, his Lord, and not diminish anything from it; but if he who owes the debt is unsound in understanding, or weak, or (if) he is not able to dictate himself, let his guardian dictate with fairness; and call in to witness from among your men two witnesses; but if there are not two men, then one man and two women from among those whom you choose to be witnesses, so that if one of the two errs, the second of the two may remind the other; and the witnesses should not refuse when they are summoned; and be not averse to writing it (whether it is) small or large, with the time of its falling due; this is more equitable in the sight of Allah and assures greater accuracy in testimony, and the nearest (way) that you may not entertain doubts (afterwards), except when it is ready merchandise which you give and take among yourselves from hand to hand, then there is no blame on you in not writing it down; and have witnesses when you barter with one another, and let no harm be done to the scribe or to the witness; and if you do (it) then surely it will be a transgression in you, and be careful of (your duty) to Allah, Allah teaches you, and Allah knows all things."

              So, one woman's testimony is equal a man's testimony among most of the jurists.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by DanInAceh View Post
                ... It is something that should have been discussed with his gampong as a community. ....
                Is there any evidence to show that this did not take place? Was the response--the threat of bodily harm and violence--not even more inappropriate?

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by lantern View Post
                  In that that case the place is awash with sinners
                  Or it explains the behavior in traffic...
                  [FONT=arial black]
                  [/FONT]

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Hombre de Maiz View Post
                    Is there any evidence to show that this did not take place? Was the response--the threat of bodily harm and violence--not even more inappropriate?
                    Take this with a grain of salt... the local press depicts this as the guy got into a CONFRONTATION with the administration of the mosque and then went and filed a suit.

                    Now maaaaaaybe the local press is demonizing him. It's possible. I certainly think that Illiza is smoking crack if she believes he couldn't hear it at 100 meters or so.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Hombre de Maiz View Post
                      The reason is simpler than that, and should require no religious training or background. The reason is that your noise may disturb others, regardless of the content of said noise. It should have nothing to do with whether the noise is Britney Spears or the recitation from a holy book. Your ritual does not take precedent over the rights of others. You are not free to pollute the environment with noise at will and at your own discretion.
                      Yes, the reason might be simpler than that. I don't disagree with you.

                      But for the believers, it should be easier for them to understand that they will be held accountable for neglecting the recitation of Al Qur’an which they should listen to. And this can be avoided if the recitation of Al Qur’an is in a moderate level of sounds and not bothering people. Adzan alone is enough, and that no needs with blaring sound as well. The recitation doesnt need to be aired loudly. Papa even said its haram to bother your neighbors if you recite Qur’an with loudspeakers.
                      Words can inspire, thoughts can provoke, but only action can get you closer to your dreams.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Alia View Post
                        Yes, the reason might be simpler than that. I don't disagree with you.

                        But for the believers, it should be easier for them to understand that they will be held accountable for neglecting the recitation of Al Qur’an which they should listen to. And this can be avoided if the recitation of Al Qur’an is in a moderate level of sounds and not bothering people. Adzan alone is enough, and that no needs with blaring sound as well. The recitation doesnt need to be aired loudly. Papa even said its haram to bother your neighbors if you recite Qur’an with loudspeakers.
                        Your father is 100% correct.

                        http://www.theonlyquran.com/hadith/S...e=4&chapter=28

                        Ibn 'Abbas reported: The word of (Allah) Great and Glorious: 'And utter not thy prayer loudly, nor be low in it" (xvii. 110) was revealed as the Messenger of Allah (may peace beupon him) was hiding himself in Mecca. When he led his Companions in prayer he raised his voice (while reciting the) Qur'an. And when the polytheists heard that, they reviled the Qur'an and Him Who revealed it and him who brought it. Upon this Allah, the Exalted, said to His Apostle (may peace be upon him): Utter not thy prayer so loudly that the polytheists may hear thy recitation and (recite it) not so low that it may be inaudible to your Companions. Make them hear the Qur'an, but do not recite it loudly and seek a (middle) way between these. Recite between loud and low tone.

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                        • #42
                          So why do they wake me up at 4 a.m. every morning? surely they must know it is wrong.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Alia View Post
                            ...

                            But for the believers, it should be easier for them to understand that they will be held accountable for neglecting the recitation of Al Qur’an which they should listen to. And this can be avoided if the recitation of Al Qur’an is in a moderate level of sounds and not bothering people. Adzan alone is enough, and that no needs with blaring sound as well. The recitation doesnt need to be aired loudly. Papa even said its haram to bother your neighbors if you recite Qur’an with loudspeakers.
                            You think? Are believers immune to common sense and neighborly human decency? Does belief replace common sense? It scares me to think that people need to know the ins and outs of a book written in Arabic a very long time ago in order to be civil and adopt common sense. I mean, when my neighbor comes over to my house to complain Led Zepp is a bit too loud, I don't go to my library and consult any book, secular or religious, to determine whether his complaint is justified. I also don't say to myself, "obviously she doesn't know what a revelation Led Zeppelin is. She has no taste in music, and doesn't understand the power of Rock&Roll, so I am just going to keep playing it loudly". Come on, Alia, are things among the believers so bad as that?
                            Last edited by Hombre de Maiz; 26-02-13, 16:24.

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                            • #44
                              But Hombre no one is willing to kill himself and hurting others for Led Zepp or Deep Purple. Somehow it's their process of believing that has gone awry. In other words, taking thing literally without considering appropriate context is certainly the issue. The book itself can't talk and judge people but their belief can. I think this is the scariest part because it's hard to know whether one's belief is conveying the truth more than the others'. Once text is produced, it signals the demise of the author/subject. In this sense, a dominant interpretation becomes the real truth.

                              It doesn't surprise me in a country where images and the consumption of images are perceived to be a reflection of reality, people opt to have azaan blaring out of bad quality speaker at the mosque. The louder the sound is the better they feel about this image consumption. It also works in other parts as in wealth and blackberry, cosmopolitanism and Facecrack and Twitter, modernity with monstrous malls and the inclusion of English words in their daily conversation.
                              Last edited by ponyexpress; 26-02-13, 16:40.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Hombre de Maiz View Post
                                The reason is simpler than that, and should require no religious training or background. The reason is that your noise may disturb others, regardless of the content of said noise. It should have nothing to do with whether the noise is Britney Spears or the recitation from a holy book. Your ritual does not take precedent over the rights of others. You are not free to pollute the environment with noise at will and at your own discretion.
                                Hear, hear! (...pardon the pun...!)
                                Things happen for a reason...

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