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Lawsuit against Loud Mosque Speakers

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Hombre de Maiz View Post
    Matty, you misunderstand the "culture" here. It's ok, you're new here. The "culture" is such that religion is and can be used to legitimate, justify and rationalize anything. As soon as you claim religion, all semblance of pragmatism, reason and even justice and virtue go out the window.
    [COLOR=#333333]Matty, you misunderstand the "culture" here. It's ok, you're new here. The "culture" is such that religion is and can be used to legitimate, justify and rationalize anything. As soon as you claim religion, all semblance of pragmatism, reason and even justice and virtue go out the window.

    SO, so true...[/COLOR]
    Things happen for a reason...

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    • #17
      Dammit! Music is my religion. I am "so" making buddies with a couple of FPI guys that are into Jethro Tull and Zeppelin.








      [SIZE=1]okay, so i can dream...[/SIZE]
      QUOTE: "Anybody who throws a few pieces of chicken or whatever meat they have onto a gas grill deserves what they get..."

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      • #18
        Originally posted by MattyRedSox View Post
        Dammit! Music is my religion. I am "so" making buddies with a couple of FPI guys that are into Jethro Tull and Zeppelin.

        [SIZE=1]okay, so i can dream...[/SIZE]
        Indonesia needs a classic rock station. WFPI.

        Unfortunately, most of them probably believe that listening to music leads to having hot lead poured into your ears in in Hell.

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        • #19
          If I am correct most mosques are on land owned by private individuals. If they need the money are they allowed to sell it or knock it down to build a house? I know of one that sold the land surrounding it, but not the mosque itself. I think it's forbidden to knock them down or convert them into alternative use, as happens with churches.

          I also heard from someone who used to live here a while ago that the microphones started pretty much overnight one day in the early 90s. The day before it was just a man shouting.

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          • #20
            What happened to just common sense and human decency?

            Oh sorry, I forgot. We are dealing with religion, here. As you were. Carry on.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Malas View Post
              If I am correct most mosques are on land owned by private individuals. If they need the money are they allowed to sell it or knock it down to build a house? I know of one that sold the land surrounding it, but not the mosque itself. I think it's forbidden to knock them down or convert them into alternative use, as happens with churches.

              I also heard from someone who used to live here a while ago that the microphones started pretty much overnight one day in the early 90s. The day before it was just a man shouting.
              I'm not an expert on this particular matter, but I do know that most mosques are held in trust, a waqf. Private donors set up an administration and they run it. I'm fairly confident that the major Islamic organizations in the country set up trusts for mosques.

              A few here also seem to be owned by the government.

              Donating land for use in a waqf pretty much means that you never get it back. It's tied up contractually in the service of Islam as a perpetual charity.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Hombre de Maiz View Post
                What happened to just common sense and human decency?

                Oh sorry, I forgot. We are dealing with religion, here. As you were. Carry on.
                It would be best if the mosques administration considered the man's request. They seem to believe that being loud encourages people to be more religious. The message should be clear and should not loudspeakers. We are encouraged to give da'wah through "beautiful" preaching. If it annoys that man and others then it is not acceptable.

                Like I said before, the man's argument for a crowd in Aceh should not be based on "it's too loud." People here will interpret that as an attack on their values, an attack on Islam. Pointing out that it is not Sunnah is probably his best bet.

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                • #23
                  Yeah, I understand. Far too many confuse the mundane ritual and the pedestrian paraphernalia with the timesless values and the transcendental ideals. A request to turn it down can only be interpreted as an attack on Islam if you care more for the former than the latter. But you know, people in the main are so insecure and ignorant that they confuse one for the other. Such is the sorry state of religious practice. Try telling them otherwise, and you'll have a pious mob on your hand wishing to do your or your property harm, or worse. Oh yeah, this is yet another case of intra-mural, self-inflicted bashing.
                  Last edited by Hombre de Maiz; 26-02-13, 10:52.

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                  • #24
                    Indonesian wins rare victory against noisy mosque

                    [COLOR=#000000][FONT=Arial]


                    Acehnese Sayed Hasan reads an Islamic book at his house in Banda Aceh on Monday. — AFP

                    BANDA ACEH, Indonesia — An elderly Indonesian said Monday he had won a rare victory against a noisy mosque, despite being forced to withdraw legal action after an angry mob threatened to kill him.

                    Complaints against the loud speakers issuing the call to prayer have been met with extreme opposition in Indonesia, the world’s biggest Muslim-majority nation that is home to about 800,000 mosques.

                    And when Sayed Hasan, 75, filed a lawsuit in December in the city of Banda Aceh, in which he complained of being disturbed by lengthy recordings of Qur’anic verses, it was met with strong protests from the community.

                    But Hasan, a Muslim, said despite being taken to see the deputy mayor and Muslim leaders, and then being escorted to the court where he was forced to withdraw his legal suit, he had ultimately won a rare victory. “I was forced to withdraw my lawsuit as an angry mob threatened to kill me,” he said. “But after I dropped my case, the volume was significantly turned down by about half.”

                    A local Muslim leader said the imam had decided to reduce the noise.

                    City dwellers in Indonesia are often woken up before dawn by intermingling calls to prayer from three or four nearby mosques. Many also blare Koranic verses or broadcast day-long events through loudspeakers.

                    Ninety percent of Indonesia’s 240 million citizens are Muslim. While most practice a moderate form, Aceh province has implemented sharia law, which is enforced by special Islamic police. — AFP[/FONT][/COLOR]
                    [FONT=arial black]
                    [/FONT]

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by jstar View Post
                      ...[COLOR=#000000][FONT=Arial] While most practice a moderate form, Aceh province has implemented sharia law, which is enforced by special Islamic police. — AFP[/FONT][/COLOR]
                      This last line suggest that it is a problem confined to Aceh due to sharia law. It ain't confined to Aceh, and it ain't due to sharia law.

                      The article is silent on why--in such a religious and ostensibly spiritual and holy milieu and among a people and religion that values consensus--the request to turn it down was met, not by dialogue or channeled through institutionalized peaceful mechanisms for handling grievances, but rather by intimidation and threats of violence and death. Something doesn't add up here.
                      Last edited by Hombre de Maiz; 26-02-13, 13:48.

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                      • #26
                        One might argue we are over-regulated (no noise after 10 PM, a maximum amount of dB for cars, motorcycles and bars, etc.) and intolerant, and I don't say it should become a Singapore here, but it really does get out of hand. There have been so many studies on what noise pollution does to a human, can't believe this is still trivialized. Even on this very forum. (The infamous I sleep through it, You get used to it comments.) The point is not that it can make you crawl up against the wall, but more what effect it has on our health.

                        Yes, it seems the right and effective way to get change is to sue, get some press and threats, and drop the charges. Don't remember, was it on Lombok where the American got jailtime for cutting the speaker cords?
                        [FONT=arial black]
                        [/FONT]

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                        • #27
                          I think the official charge was blasphemy. Of course, no one sees rampant corruption and illegality as blasphemy against one's religion. Once again, religious practice gone awry.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by jstar View Post
                            Don't remember, was it on Lombok where the American got jailtime for cutting the speaker cords?
                            I think it is to this, that you do refer.

                            http://www.thejakartaglobe.com/home/...er-says/396694

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                            • #29
                              The best was to get action --- file a law suite. I thought most of the devout hereabouts were against adopting American customs.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by waarmstrong View Post
                                The best was to get action --- file a law suite. I thought most of the devout hereabouts were against adopting American customs.
                                Lawsuits are shari'a compliant, there's nothing inherently American about that unless we're talking "sue the bastards for everything they're worth!"

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