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Prabowo for president, what's your take?

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  • Originally posted by naughtygab View Post
    i have the same q miss N, so i asked some of my colleagues who'd choose prabowo .. here are some answers i could get : prabowo will help islam to be pure ( pemurnian agama), prabowo will make syariah law to be implemented soon , indonesia consists of many races and cases, so it needs someone from military who can be firm , indonesia needs to have a president who is from military as indonesia has always been bullied by other countries, they dont like megawati ...

    most of the fanatic moslem would choose prabowo, as they believe jokowi is not a devoted moslem since he refused the syariah law to be implemented here...
    and most of them have no idea about how bad 98 was ..
    Tbh i dont think prabowo is that islam himself. His family is Christian, he has a son who studies in the west, he attended school in the west too, his father is an intellectual ( i saw most intellectual are close to be an atheist, imo. Not calling him atheist. )
    Jokowi is more islam than prabowo.

    Also, the current president comes from military background.
    Lost in Jakarta's trafic jam

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    • Pfft I hate nationalist.. Vote for Jokowi - JK c:

      This guy could be said lacked charisma/charm though :P But he got major voters for his low-profile personality, and appearance? XD
      Aloft! Me hearties! Harharhar!

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      • Originally posted by Missnaughty View Post
        Someone's reputation is built on their history. Both Prabowo and Hatta have history abusing their power and position, and why do people still vote for them? Why make things so complicated when decision can be made easily? Jokowi and JK so far have a lot of positive points base on their history and people still need to weigh decision over these 2 candidates? What a selfish voter.
        Because MN People are stupid with very short memories, look at the mess that was Indonesia under Sukarno. He was so bad at being president he was ousted by Soeharto (supported by the CIA Brits and Aussies of course) under his rule indonesia took off like an economic jet fighter and everyone was happy enough, but as soon as the going got tough people started to hark back and romantisise about the good ole days of Sukarno. Soeharto finally fell from power and the reformasi era took off and everyone was happy for a while, once again the going got tough and now we see the same romantisising about good ole Pak Harto. History fades over time and people tend to remember it with rose tinted glasses rather than as it really was. I am sure that in time people will feel the same about SBY.
        Last edited by ScooterIndo; 07-07-14, 14:51.

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        • Originally posted by ScooterIndo View Post
          Soeharto (supported by the CIA Brits and Aussies of course) under his rule indonesia took off like an economic jet fighter and everyone was happy enough
          Wow, so it was just an act of God that "suddenly" millions of Indonesians went amok and ousted that pig with public pressure that they didn't know they could exert (even with Filipinos giving a clear example 12 years earlier)? Amazing!

          Yeah, they were really happy if they rode to wealth on Suharto's coat-tails, ran one of his fake charities, got free land for supporting his invasion of Tim-Tim, etc.

          What about people who wondered every July if they could enroll their kids in school for another year? And then in 1997, there's a sudden requirement that only a *certain style* of black shoe (manufactured by a friend of guess who!) would be acceptable as part of the public school uniform.

          When people quote World Bank or IMF stats (see books like Confessions of an Economic Hit Man if you still love such stats), they somehow forget all of the "straw that broke the camel's back" events that probably happened to millions of people and never made the news. Someone who couldn't afford to go to the doctor when clearly sick, so they got worse, lost their job, drained their family's meager savings, maybe even died. Kids dragging around markets trying to do something useful with their time cuz no longer in SD.

          Yeah, EVERYONE was happy. Please don't make us vomit with such superficial praise of the man whom "kleptocracy" was coined for.

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          • Originally posted by dafluff View Post
            If people stop reelecting politicians because of a broken campaign promises, no one would ever hold a second term.
            So, an extreme like "no one would ever" means there's no reason why some people are re-elected; others not. It's just random.

            I do agree with much of your previous post, though, about not expecting too much of Jokowi as if he were a savior. Also, I acknowledge that disillusionment is a significant factor in declining voter turnout (in US, anyway), as noted in Sheldon Wolin's recent book *Democracy Inc." where he defines and describes "managed democracy" as apparently populist, but no systemic change occurs.

            This would be hinted by some of the people already backing Jokowi, his apparent lack of support for minimum wage (strongly discouraged in a managed democracy, according to Prof. Wolin), and of course the mafia-promoting running mate.

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            • Originally posted by ponyexpress View Post
              Prabowo underlined that democracy is an anathema to Indonesian cultural characteristic which is based on consensus.
              So, why do we sometimes have show-of-hands votes in the RT meeting? Win or lose, he should take time after the election to read:
              http://www.amazon.com/Will-People-De.../dp/0313258376

              Described with true Filipino humor as "the best president we never had", the late Raul Manglapus studied various traditional societies around the planet and concluded that local meetings are essentially democratic, contrary to Mahathir and Suharto justifications.

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              • Originally posted by ScooterIndo View Post
                Because MN People are stupid with very short memories, look at the mess that was Indonesia under Sukarno. He was so bad at being president he was ousted by Soeharto (supported by the CIA Brits and Aussies of course) under his rule indonesia took off like an economic jet fighter and everyone was happy enough, but as soon as the going got tough people started to hark back and romantisise about the good ole days of Sukarno. Soeharto finally fell from power and the reformasi era took off and everyone was happy for a while, once again the going got tough and now we see the same romantisising about good ole Pak Harto. History fades over time and people tend to remember it with rose tinted glasses rather than as it really was. I am sure that in time people will feel the same about SBY.
                You seem to fail to notice that hundred thousands people were murdered, and thousands more were incarcerated before Suharto took power in 1966. Economic was 'good' under Suharto, particularly during the oil boom. But look how much loan he has accumulated when he left the presidential post.

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                • Originally posted by martindo View Post
                  So, why do we sometimes have show-of-hands votes in the RT meeting? Win or lose, he should take time after the election to read:
                  http://www.amazon.com/Will-People-De.../dp/0313258376

                  Described with true Filipino humor as "the best president we never had", the late Raul Manglapus studied various traditional societies around the planet and concluded that local meetings are essentially democratic, contrary to Mahathir and Suharto justifications.
                  It's not the consensus principle that matters really but how Suharto used this principle to keep him in power for more than three decades. Under his reign, political parties were pretty much controlled and expected to reach a consensus that supported him as president.

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                  • Before you all kick the shit outta me regarding my soeharto analagy - please remember i was refering to the "general" sense of nostalgia amongst the majority of the populace (regular rice and an electric light and i am all right jack) i know the man was a monster and went to his grave with the blood of hundreds of thousands on his hands (and their money in his pockets) hence my total and utter astonishment that people are now getting all rose tinted and nostalgic about his presidency.

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                    • All good scoot!

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                      • Originally posted by martindo View Post
                        Closing of Gitmo.
                        (Re)Establishing regulations for Wall Street banksters.
                        Rolling back the war effort.
                        Rolling back the security state.
                        Meaningful national health insurance.

                        Perhaps some other (former) BHO supporters can add to this list of broken promises. In fact, what has he actually accomplished in 6 years, aside from getting a "hope for the future" Nobel prize?
                        You left out "open and transparent government".
                        [FONT=Comic Sans MS]Warden: "What we got here ... is failure to communicate."

                        The Dude: "Oh yeah? Well that's just, like, your opinion, man."[/FONT]

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                        • Originally posted by martindo View Post
                          Miss Naughty commented very perceptively in the Expat Chat thread on Post Election (post #101):

                          Here my say, I don't care if Jokowi is playing beggar or even a real beggar. I do not choose base on how poor a candidate is. I choose Jokowi because he is from a different clan. I like to take a risk to see whether he can make change or not where with Prabowo, it's predictable what will happen in the next 10 years.

                          She had previously referred to Jokowi as a belonging to a different tribe -- both uses being figurative to indicate a different mindset or political "culture".
                          Are you sure she was being figurative and not literal?
                          [FONT=Comic Sans MS]Warden: "What we got here ... is failure to communicate."

                          The Dude: "Oh yeah? Well that's just, like, your opinion, man."[/FONT]

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                          • I prefer Sukarno then Suharto. When Suharto was the president I felt this country was run by Al Capone. Look at how he treated Sukarno and the treaty between RI and the Freeport or the foreign investment law. No ethics at all.
                            Last edited by acoolguy; 07-07-14, 21:05.

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                            • Originally posted by Mister Bule View Post
                              Are you sure she was being figurative and not literal?
                              Exactly like Martindo said.. Different mindset. You need to read my comment before the one that M quoted.

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                              • And of all, its quite astonishing for me as well to know that theres expatriates who are care about this stuff. Especially Suharto and Sukarno, pre-reformation Indonesian national history.
                                Aloft! Me hearties! Harharhar!

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